DYI or Torqeedo 48-5000

[pacmanBNENL]

So I live in Amsterdam and am looking to convert my Boat 30Hp petrol engine to an Electric Motor the brand Torqeedo looks like the best option on the EU market.

Just a little background

My boat is 6.1m / 20 feet long and only travels on the inland waters of NL. The Dutch have decided that come 2025 all boats need to be Electric so I have some time up my sleeve but dont want to leave it until the last minute.
Current conversion costs for a boat my size and weight is anywhere between €6k - €10k thats just for the motor. The recommended batteries by the vendor are there own which are 48v 5000w and they recommend 2 of them at cost of €5k each. But they also allow alternate battery options (See supplied Pictures below for the suggested battery layout)

I currently have 3 12v AGM batteries installed to drive Start / Accessories / Bow Thruster and one lifepo4 MasterVolt 30ah which connects to the Mastervolt MPPT and Mastervolt Inverter which has 1 21v 110w Solar Panel. The inverter drives a Mastervolt Charger which charges the AGM batteries. Granted its a bit of a mess but was the result of doing the design on the fly hence why I am posting here I dont want to make the same mistakes on this design. But the may reason for this setup is I dont have shore power and the summer this season has been well non existent and I wanted to keep the batteries charged when not in regular use. So the above does the job. The inverter charges during the day when the sun is out and cuts off when the voltage is 12v or less and sleeps during the night and starts again when the sun is out. The solar panel is a flexible as I have no place to permanently mount or store them when not in use. But the aim here is also to increase the panel foot print to say no less than 4 no more than 6 not sure I have the enough real estate to secure them if I have more than that.

Sorry I know that is a little long winded but needed to paint the picture.

So now the ask do I just go with the 42v 5000w vendor battery which is criminally expensive but german built and if I include there faster charger and Solar MPPT it will set me back €13k without solar panels or do I DYI my own 2 48v 5000w systems that can be charged by Solar when not in use and or shore power. (The dutch are starting to role out charging spots along the canals so if I get desperate I can plug into 240v power)

Also most of the inland water speeds around me are 7km/h so I am not going to be running this engine at full throttle

So the battery layout suggested by the vendor is:


The specs of the Vendor battery




So if I could build two 48v with the above specs surely I could build 2 for the price of there one. As long as its capacity has 5000wh and allows at least a 200A draw where the BMS wont trigger a battery shutdown because that would suck if I am applying power to get out of trouble or danger.

So this is where I am open to suggestions and put it to the forums wisdom to get suggestions on

CELLS (which Type CALB , FREY, EVE )
BMS ( Was thinking Overkill Solar)
MPPT / Inverter / Charger (can be 3 standalone items or a hybrid combination ) open to ideas here
Solar Panels Sizes to satisfy either direct charging the DYI Batteries and or Charging and offline battery that will run an inverter / charger at night

The vendor also suggest to keep 12v accessories separate so will also build 2 DYI 12V with one that will be big enough to take the AMP draw of my bow thruster which is 12v and vendor battery suggestions is to use a battery with at least 1000A CCA (Cold Cranking Amps.) So they too will need to be charged of the same charging system as above.

So open to ideas

 

[efficientPV]

I saw the electric boat RA, there is information on the internet for this boat, it had two Torqeedo motors. I talked to the captain and asked him if he has hearing issues, he was an old guy. He looked at me really strange. A day before the boat had gone by my house well over 200 meters away. It about gave me a headache from the whine. I'm sure the dealer will tell you how quiet they are. It might deserve some investigation.

 

[pacmanBNENL]

I saw the electric boat RA, there is information on the internet for this boat, it had two Torqeedo motors. I talked to the captain and asked him if he has hearing issues, he was an old guy. He looked at me really strange. A day before the boat had gone by my house well over 200 meters away. It about gave me a headache from the whine. I'm sure the dealer will tell you how quiet they are. It might deserve some investigation.

Yeah not fussed about. the noise. The motor whatever I choose will sit inside a sound proof bun and for must part are at the same price point for the power I need to push my boat. Even with my current 30HP petrol motor my boat top speed is 16kmh. This is to get around dutch boating laws that dont recognise by Australian Boat License but will allow me to pilot any boat without a license as long as the following two things are met. 1) cant exceed 20kmh 2) cant exceed 12m in length. The reason for my post was about building a battery for less than 2 48v 5000 w ones would cost if I buy direct from the vendor or even a professional battery maker. I have already built a small solar charging solution for my current setup but made the mistake of not sitting down and working out a design and good BOM. I was building it on the fly without a proper design and found out after all was said it done I didnt have a solar charing solution fit for purpose. For most part didnt have the right capacity with the factory built battery I had bought then had to spend more money on buying victonenergy battery protect which now pretty much restricts my charging window to maybe 1 - 2 hrs tops once the sun goes down.
So on my new DYI project I want to get the wisdom of others who have learnt way more than I have because they are doing this everyday. One of the other reasons for going the Torqeedo route is TAX the dutch VAT hurts on these kind of goods by getting something from Germany I save a little on TAX

 

[Atomvoyager]

Despite the tax issues you may want to compare the Torq cost and features with the Epropulsion Navy 3 or 6:

Navy Series Electric Outboard Motor

Navy Series Electric Outboard Motor Hydrogeneration Low Maintenance Direct-Drive Navy 3.0 Evo 3kW Navy 6.0 Evo 6kW Introducing Navy Navy Series is the backbone of

www.epropulsion.com

I've been considering an electric outboard like this for my 28' sailboat. Torq has a poor reputation here as having unreliable electronics, flimsy parts and overpriced. For batteries I'd use something like SOK lithium. I'm not inclined to build my own batteries and BMS and will use four 12v batteries in series for 48v and use a dc-dc convertor to run the house loads from the same bank to reduce the complexity, cost and weight of two banks. I'll take the risk that I won't discharge it 100%. Maybe have a small backup battery that can be temporarily connected in that situation. I don't see myself buying overpriced batteries from Torq or other EP suppliers. I know it's recommended to have multiple solar charge controllers for multiple panels but I've run up to 3 50w solar panels in parallel on one MPPT with no issues from backfeeding one panel in shading situations. I have an on/off switch on each panel circuit so can use that if needed, for monitoring or troubleshooting. In practice I've found that even when shaded the panels still put out enough not to lose all charging current or have the voltage drop and somehow damage the panels or cause other problems, even after many years of use.

 

[kgol]

So I live in Amsterdam and am looking to convert my Boat 30Hp petrol engine to an Electric Motor the brand Torqeedo looks like the best option on the EU market.

Just a little background

My boat is 6.1m / 20 feet long and only travels on the inland waters of NL. The Dutch have decided that come 2025 all boats need to be Electric so I have some time up my sleeve but dont want to leave it until the last minute.
Current conversion costs for a boat my size and weight is anywhere between €6k - €10k thats just for the motor. The recommended batteries by the vendor are there own which are 48v 5000w and they recommend 2 of them at cost of €5k each. But they also allow alternate battery options (See supplied Pictures below for the suggested battery layout)

[...]

So if I could build two 48v with the above specs surely I could build 2 for the price of there one. As long as its capacity has 5000wh and allows at least a 200A draw where the BMS wont trigger a battery shutdown because that would suck if I am applying power to get out of trouble or danger.

So this is where I am open to suggestions and put it to the forums wisdom to get suggestions on

CELLS (which Type CALB , FREY, EVE )
BMS ( Was thinking Overkill Solar)
MPPT / Inverter / Charger (can be 3 standalone items or a hybrid combination ) open to ideas here
Solar Panels Sizes to satisfy either direct charging the DYI Batteries and or Charging and offline battery that will run an inverter / charger at night

The vendor also suggest to keep 12v accessories separate so will also build 2 DYI 12V with one that will be big enough to take the AMP draw of my bow thruster which is 12v and vendor battery suggestions is to use a battery with at least 1000A CCA (Cold Cranking Amps.) So they too will need to be charged of the same charging system as above.

So open to ideas

The Torqeedo batteries are rather poor value in my opinion as they use NMC and not LFP chemistry. The NMC chemistry is a bit lighter but is nowhere as robust as LFP. They price them around 1 euro/kWh. Top quality LFP cells (Winston) go around 0.4 euro/kWh, including VAT (from gwl.eu). Bulk cells imported from China are about a factor three cheaper than those Winstons... but these bulk cells tend to have some difficulties with staying in balance. Therefore I recommend going with the Winstons.

For the BMS, have a look at the REC Q: https://www.rec-bms.com/rec-q-battery-management-system-16s/.

Concerning solar, you'll need a lot of PV surface to charge a 10 kWh pack in a timely manner with the dutch weather... I'm not sure how you would fit that on a 6.1 m boat. Residential panels from LG are quite nice.

Victron has some nice MPPTs, inverters and chargers, yet they tend to be on the expensive side.

The 12 V accessories can be run of a lead-acid battery that is charged by a DC-DC converter from the main battery.