EasyStart Issues - Condenser Faults

[JaxLax]

Cliff Notes: Installed (2) 368s a year ago. (1) 368 failed back in July and ES replaced under warranty with Flex that failed today (after a month of use). Other original is running fine and never had an issue.

Trying to figure out what's happening with my downstairs condenser. It's a Goodman GSZ140361KE and my original 368 unit that was on it worked for nearly a year, then started to throw the power interruption flash code. Removed ES and rewired to original and it worked fine. Put the ES back in place and got the 1 flash fault and no compressor start. Removed again, got unit running on original wiring, and started in with tech support.
By the time tech was satisfied, they sent out a replacement unit - the new Flex model.
Installed, learned, and ran great until today. Came downstairs to find the fans running, but no compressor and the unit was throwing the 7 flash incorrect wiring code. Popped the cover and looked and nothing was out of place, loose, or damaged. But since I was there, I removed all connections and reconnected (except for butt splice of brown/red) and it'd been +5 minutes - so I attempted to restart the system. The compressor came on for <5 seconds and then shut off and the unit tossed the 7 flash code again (improper wiring).
So I again, removed the Flex from the system and cut the butt splice and returned the unit to factory wiring. It fired right back up.

I'm just frustrated currently. Why are these units having issues with this one system? The other one on the same power, installed by the same person, and wired the same NOT failing? Is there a specific issue with my Goodman condenser? I've replaced the capacitor before, but it didn't cause any issues at the time? Could it have been in the butt splice, but why didn't it fail sooner?

Yes, I'm in FL and it's been 100% humidity for days now and there was water condensed inside of the unit. But the unit is installed in the correct vertical orientation with the bleeder at the bottom. Does it need to dry out? But again, why is the other one just working under the same conditions? The 368 breather is behind the cable and the Flex is off to the side - is that just not as good of a location?

Any thoughts or advice is appreciated.

 

[BentleyJ]

Have you checked the LRA (start up amps) and RLA, run load amps. Compressors don't always fail suddenly, there can be issues with insulation breakdown such that they will run but may be pulling excessive current.

Watched a HVAC repair video on YT just the other day. Continuity test showed about 2 Mohm from motor windings to ground when it should be OL with a 9V battery in the meter. Compressor pulled 225A @240v then the breaker tripped.

 

[JaxLax]

Have you checked the LRA (start up amps) and RLA, run load amps. Compressors don't always fail suddenly, there can be issues with insulation breakdown such that they will run but may be pulling excessive current.

Watched a HVAC repair video on YT just the other day. Continuity test showed about 2 Mohm from motor windings to ground when it should be OL with a 9V battery in the meter. Compressor pulled 225A @240v then the breaker tripped.

I did previously with the 368.
The Flex was showing a starting of 16.6A and a running of around 6.5A prior to failure.
I didn't test today because it's still raining here in North Florida with Debbie not leaving yet.

I will test for continuity across the orange and black when I can. But I'm not popping any breakers or at least the Flex is stopping it prior to that. The fan on the condenser continues to run correctly (although it is outside of the Flex control wiring).

 

[BentleyJ]

I will test for continuity across the orange and black when I can.

Check continuity from both Orange and Black to ground also.

 

[RCinFLA]

Change the start capacitor inside the ES unit. Easy to change. Need couple of tie-wraps to hold it down. For 3 ton scroll compressor, the start capacitor inside Easystart should be about 130-158 uF, 330vac rated.

Easystart will mask a bad Run capacitor so check it also. Compressor run current will be higher if Run capacitor is bad.

Do not wire the Easystart White wire to COM terminal on Run capacitor. Usually, the wire from the contactor output to Run Capacitor COM is small gauge. The Run capacitor COM terminal is not intended to take off the greater compressor Run winding current

The large gauge White wire from Easystart should be connected to contactor output directly to get the least amount of wire resistance voltage drop.

I wired mine with a four lug screw terminal strip to allow easy removal of Easystart softstarter with a single short replacement jumper wire with lugs.

 

[trdstarlet]

I'd be careful with Micro-Air soft start products. I have mixed feelings about their products since there have been varying levels of success reported by different users.

I had an issue where I was being helped, but the problem wasn't resolved. It was dragged out, and I’m partly to blame as well since I wasn't persistent in seeking a resolution. If you are having issues, get it replaced ASAP because they are likely to tell you at some point that you are out of warranty and question why you didn't report it earlier. Additionally, there's no support after the warranty period.

But again, this is just my experience. I eventually resolved the issue without their help, and for me, I cannot recommend this product. I had really high hopes as everyone else reported great success.

Oh, by the way, I did replace the "130-158 uF, 330vac rated" capacitor, but be careful with the capacitor size. I got my replacement part, and it worked like it should. However, the issue is that I can't completely seal the unit now. It's slightly bigger, so I'll have to find another capacitor that meets the original dimensions. I'll probably just use another weatherproof box to keep the critters out and prevent any possible water ingress.

 

[RCinFLA]

Diameter max for start cap size is 1.85"

Most of install issues is with wiring, like the one I mentioned using Run cap COM terminal to tap off high compressor Run current White wire to Easystart. White and Brown large gauge wires carry the high start current.

 

[JaxLax]

Sent a few photos of the water inside.
Replacement unit being shipped.

 

[k490]

Just installed one on a 4 ton goodman packaged rooftop heat pump. The compressor starts up slowly but then makes a surging noise maybe this is normal I don't really like that sound reminds me when compressor going bad. Unit is 2 years old 14 seer nothing special easy start says pulling 30 amps peak on startup.

 

[RCinFLA]

If you change the black electrolytic start capacitor inside the Easystart you need to retrain the unit. Electrolytic start caps have a wide capacitance tolerance range. It is why they are usually specified with a mfd. range instead of a specific mfd. value with percent tolerance. As electrolytic start capacitors age, the electrolyte dries out, their ESR rises, and capacitance reduces.

Just connecting 120vac to black wire (neutral) and white (hot) will supply power to Easystart and allow BT to operate so you can reset the unit to allow retraining. Retraining reset also zeros out fault count.

You should also retrain if you change the air conditioner's Run capacitor.

Some neighborhoods have a larger than normal grid voltage variation due to neighborhood loading and utility load prediction errors. When these conditions exist should try to train Easystart unit at lower grid voltage conditions. Training at higher grid voltages can result in compressor startup stalls when grid voltage is low.

Training on a generator can result in non-optimum startup. Generator voltage slump on high initial surge current training attempts can result in Easystart thinking it cannot optimize further on successive training attempts.

 

[Texas-Mark]

I posted this in another thread, but figured I would add it here.

After 2064 starts, my EasyStart (BT version) just died. It died in the middle of a run cycle (some sort of fault that would prevent it from restating). Power cycled everything to try and reset it, but it would not start. Yes, I waited for all of the time delays. I took it out of the circuit and the AC is running fine again.

And no, there is nothing wrong with my condenser unit or how the unit is wired. However, I did do the learn routine back when it was still pretty cool out and it has been hotter than normal (100+) so I guess I will try a relearn at some point. After my last experience with EasyStart tech support (they blamed my new condenser unit for mystery faults), I’m not even going to try and ask them.

I’m glad this happened now though because I am going out of town for a few days (when it's supposed to get up to 105) and would have been really pissed if it happened while I was gone. Now, I’m not sure I can trust it anymore. If I do get it working again, I may go back to my original plan of just using it if I need to run off of my generator.

Just connecting 120vac to black wire (neutral) and white (hot) will supply power to Easystart and allow BT to operate so you can reset the unit to allow retraining. Retraining reset also zeros out fault count.

After you reset in the app, do you have to immediately power it down (so you can reconnect the rest of it)? Just wondering how to prevent it from faulting right after a reset if it's not fully in the circuit yet and it tries to start.

 

[BentleyJ]

If you are not confident in the EasyStart Brand, HyperEngineering is a good alternative. I've been using one for several years with no issues. Interestingly this brand is now labled as Eltwin Hyper Sure Start.

 

[wpns]

I'd be careful with Micro-Air soft start products. I have mixed feelings about their products since there have been varying levels of success reported by different users.

I had an issue where I was being helped, but the problem wasn't resolved. It was dragged out, and I’m partly to blame as well since I wasn't persistent in seeking a resolution. If you are having issues, get it replaced ASAP because they are likely to tell you at some point that you are out of warranty and question why you didn't report it earlier. Additionally, there's no support after the warranty period.

But again, this is just my experience. I eventually resolved the issue without their help, and for me, I cannot recommend this product. I had really high hopes as everyone else reported great success.

Oh, by the way, I did replace the "130-158 uF, 330vac rated" capacitor, but be careful with the capacitor size. I got my replacement part, and it worked like it should. However, the issue is that I can't completely seal the unit now. It's slightly bigger, so I'll have to find another capacitor that meets the original dimensions. I'll probably just use another weatherproof box to keep the critters out and prevent any possible water ingress.

Is there a different product you'd recommend?

 

[trdstarlet]

Is there a different product you'd recommend?

I don't have another product to recommend since I've only tried EasyStart. They are very popular, so I jumped on the bandwagon like everyone else, but it didn’t work out for me. I'm not here to bash the product, as I'm sure many users have had good experiences. However, the serviceability from the company is non-existent. I can only imagine it will be worse with their new version.

Considering the device isn’t cheap, I don’t understand why they don’t service it, either in or out of warranty. That’s what really puts me off about the company and the product.

 

[k490]

I don't have another product to recommend since I've only tried EasyStart. They are very popular, so I jumped on the bandwagon like everyone else, but it didn’t work out for me. I'm not here to bash the product, as I'm sure many users have had good experiences. However, the serviceability from the company is non-existent. I can only imagine it will be worse with their new version.

Considering the device isn’t cheap, I don’t understand why they don’t service it, either in or out of warranty. That’s what really puts me off about the company and the product.

How long did it last before it failed?

 

[trdstarlet]

I had issues early on... I did get some technical help but it really only lasted one season. I took it upon myself to fix this unit and had some success and that's how I found this post.

 

[RCinFLA]

I had issues early on... I did get some technical help but it really only lasted one season. I took it upon myself to fix this unit and had some success and that's how I found this post.

Chances are there is other issues with air conditioner system.

Refrigerant liquid flood back to compressor during off idle mode will cause hard startup on scroll compressors. Techs often (incorrectly) add a hard start kit to overcome this. Most prevalent time for this issue to show up is spring and fall seasons when outside temp dips to 60-70 degs F usually during nighttime while cooling mode is still being used.

It is more likely to happen when unit is overcharged slightly.

High efficiency units with very large outside condensers and large refrigerant loads are vulnerable to refrigerant liquid flood back during off idle time. Trane uses compressor discharge check valve, and they immediately shut off EEV value on shutdown to trap refrigerant in condenser to avoid liquid flood back to compressor input. Copeland does not officially bless this method on their scroll compressors because the compressor check valve will leak more as compressor gets older. Copeland says the reason they added compressor discharge check valve is only to reduce the noise clunk when compressor shuts off.

 

[trdstarlet]

I have trane 3.5 ton the unit runs top notch on AC I have it serviced regularly. It's only because of power outages I decided to get a EasyStart so I can get it with a generator. But the EasyStart started failing with AC never once did it work whi the generator. Now I'm using 18kpv and would love to use it to stem the inrush current. The compressor works fine with shore power and solar off grid. But as soon as the EasyStart was installed issues arose... it was the starting capacitor InThe EasyStart was bad. I replaced it with a new one and presto issue gone. Same values on the capacitor just dimensions are slightly larger so I have to by the proper size or enclose it another box to make it weather proof.

 

[Texas-Mark]

I guess I will try replacing the capacitor in mine. But I don't know if I will ever trust it again. I just got back from a trip and it has been 105 the last few days. Had it decided to crap out while I was gone (instead of the day before I left), it would have gotten pretty toasty inside the house. As I mentioned earlier, if I do get it working again, I will just leave it disconnected unless I need to use the generator.

As I noted in another thread, I had contacted EasyStart support over some mysterious faults on the app that popped up out of nowhere. Note: The app does not tell you what type of fault it it. Support blamed my (new) condenser, claiming the compressor thermal switch was opening. This despite the fact that I know the compressor never stopped during the run cycle that the faults were popping up during. They then closed the ticket and basically washed their hands of it.

 

[trdstarlet]

Yeah I had similar treatment from Technical Support this year... something isn't right at MicroAir. My previous interactions with them 2yrs back was night and day compared to more recent times. Last I heard was here's a 10percent coupon to by another one... close ticket! So they are not getting any of my business or recommendations.

 

[RCinFLA]

Pulled the record on my unit after I changed from non-BT (used 2 years) to BT version of Easystart 368. Was a bit disappointed they only measure the run winding current, but I understand why. They would have to do current magnitude and phase measurements and do complex math.

It would be very useful if they added startup time period. Should be easy to do. You want startup period to be between 0.4 and 0.7 seconds. The longer it is the closer to a compressor startup stall.

 

[k490]

I asked them about splicing the wiring to make the cable longer they were good with that didn't have any issues with them getting back to me. Just need to find a box to splice it in so I can mount it out of the sun. Hopefully it doesn't fail or cause damage to the 2 year old Goodman I have paid way too much for. I know many install Micro air on their RV's I wonder how many are using these for large 3-5 ton units like these home AC systems. When it's 119F here AC will run for 3-4 hours nonstop everything gets really hot hopefully it can handle that.

 

[Texas-Mark]

So here is what I did. Just for the heck of it, I replaced the run capacitor and the contactor on the condenser unit. Of course it starts and runs just fine. I checked the capacitor on the Easy Start (mine has the 270-324uF cap) and it is fine. I put the Easy Start back in and once again, it faults immediately and won't start the compressor. I did a relearn on it and it still faults immediately and won't start.

I have submitted another ticket to Miro-Air, but I am not going to hold my breath.

When I opened up the Easy Start to check the capacitor, I noticed there is a fuse in there. It checked out fine. But right next to the fuse are some surface mount resistors. They do not look burned, but they (or the coating) look a little discolored. Not sure if that is normal or not.

 

[RCinFLA]

So here is what I did. Just for the heck of it, I replaced the start capacitor and the contactor on the condenser unit.

Need to clarify this statement. Do you mean an actual (black plastic cased) start capacitor in OEM air conditioner, or do you really mean you replaced the (metal cased) Run capacitor in unit?

Most air conditioners have a silver metal cased Run capacitor on compressor, between 30 uF to 50 uF typically. Often it is a dual capacitor with 30-50 uF for compressor Run capacitor and 5-7.5 uF for outside fan motor Run capacitor.

Some actually do have an additional hard start kit with black start capacitor and potential relay to disconnect start capacitor after compressor spin up.

If you do have a hard start kit it must be removed if adding a Easystart softstarter.

If you cannot get Easystart to make the initial startup then you likely had a hardstart kit on outside unit before you added the Easystart. This assumes you have Easystart wired correctly.

 

[Texas-Mark]

Need to clarify this statement. Do you mean an actual (black plastic cased) start capacitor in OEM air conditioner, or do you really mean you replaced the (metal cased) Run capacitor in unit?

I replaced the 55-5 run capacitor (I mis-typed start) and the contactor just to eliminate any possibility those were causing an issue with Easy Start. This condenser unit is simple (i.e. no heat pump or smarts), so not much to go wrong other than those two things or the actual compressor. And since the unit is only about 6 months old, none of those should be going bad this soon.

If you do have a hard start kit it must be removed if adding a Easystart softstarter.

Nope. And as I noted, it had worked fine for about 2000 starts then just died.