Darkwing
New Member
Just got the newletter and got excited, but is it true that this is a grid tie and not a 8000xp with no grid back feed?
EG4 12Kpv Prototype at Intersolar
- Thread starter Will Prowse
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Brucey
Velcro Man
Correct it's like a smaller 18kpv.
serene_badlands
New Member
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Why are people hating on the 12Kpv so much? It's a higher quality inverter than the 6000xp. Are people being dramatic about the ridiculous naming convention, or am I missing something?
Backtrack8189
New Member
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Yeah, as if we didn't know it wasn't going to follow the naming scheme of the 18kpv. I agree i would like to see it called 12kw, but marketing has been doing this on every product in history. It doesn't make the product inherently bad. All the actual reviews seem to really like the product. Its kind of uneventful since its basically a clone of form and function of the 18kpv. There's a lot more buzz about the midnite one, growatt, and other upcoming Chinese mystery boxes.
Darkwing
New Member
For me it is the thing that i was hoping for a bigger 6000xp...meaning same feature set like the non grid feed by design but more power.
Cause the 6000xp is an awesome idea but to small and adding more 6000xp toe the equation is just practical for me...
Not only do you need more space on the wall, it is also 2 more strings needed that reach he 120 volts...
A 8kw or 12 kw single unit like the 6000xp would kill n birds with one stone
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
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"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!" (Sir Walter Scott, 1808)
Quattrohead
Emperor Of Solar
Hang on for a short while longer ......
Quattrohead
Emperor Of Solar
Why is an SUV called and SUV ? Nothing sporty about a large metal box on wheels.
Why is there a "sport" version of some SUV's ? Is it a SSUV ?
MammaJamma50
New Member
Can a net metering 18KPV be set up to receive power on the generator input from the 12KPV?
Yeah...no...there are no sporty SUVs.
That is just something baby-carriage carrying Dads are telling themselves to mitigate the thought of buying and driving SUVs....
I hate SUVs. A station wagon has better carrying capacity and looks better.
That is just something baby-carriage carrying Dads are telling themselves to mitigate the thought of buying and driving SUVs....
I hate SUVs. A station wagon has better carrying capacity and looks better.
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
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Yes
Any power source can be connected to the generator port. (When port is set to generator)
And since the 12kpv is a hybrid, it can also be AC coupled to the port.
MammaJamma50
New Member
@EG4_Jared could you answer the following: I'm sure it may have been covered but would you or anyone know if you could share 2 power pro batteries between the 18KPV and 12KPV with the 12KPV feeding the gen input of the 18KPV to boost the AC output in a grid down situation?
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
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It wouldn't boost the output. It would just replace it.
Unless you AC coupled them together.
Let the 18kpv control the 12kpv.
12kpv grid port to 18kpv gen port.
Gen port setting for micro inverter (or whatever it's called).
EG4TechSolutionsTeam
Online Support for EG4 Electronics
Limited testing has been done with this application. At this time, I do not have a definitive answer.
MammaJamma50
New Member
I believe that is what I would be doing is AC coupling the 12KPV's load output to the 18KPV's gen input to "boost" the overall systems backup power during a grid down situation. Instead of being limited to to 12KW during grid down that could be bumped to 20KW with the addition of the 12KPV.
I would only parallel the power pro batteries between the 12KPV and 18KPV as well as AC couple the 12KPV to the 18KPV. No grid input to 12KPV and no PV input to 12KPV.
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
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For AC coupling you need to connect the 12kpv grid port to the 18kpv gen port.
This would allow the 18kpv to control the 12kpv.
You can't control the 12kpv from its load port.
Randomuser841
New Member
There’s a YouTube video that shows a big diagram associated with this, but the guy never shows the full diagram and moves the camera around too much. Did anyone take a Hi-Rez photo of the diagram that shows this as the core of a home smart grid? Seems like a really interesting concept. Thanks
green-river
Grid Escape Artist
That was 9 months ago, and the prototype looks to have changed a bit in that time. The final product, and specs, are discussed in detail in this video from the most recent conference in September 2024 -
Adam De Lay
Solar Wizard
Randomuser841
New Member
That's the one! Has any more information been released on this yet?
My big question is about the smart ports - can you use them for bidirectional EV chargers? That would be awesome and would eliminate the need for a 50amp -100amp breaker in your breaker box. It would manage this as both a power load AND a power storage device. In my case this would allow me to add an EV charger (I can't right now because my breaker box is totally full and won't support a new 50 amp breaker or any breaker of any size without a forklift upgrade of my entire panel).
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
Bidirectional is still vaporware… Theoretically sure, but you need the (vaporware so you can’t check) bidirectional charger stack to have data comms with grid boss to implement PCS and microgrid forming. These are doable with the EG4 inverters because those are in the same ecosystem and designed to work with grid boss (you can see comms cables going between everything connected to grid boss and grid boss, and if separate comms cables weren’t present, it would have been embedded as PLC signals in the AC connections)
So let’s refocus to realistic within 12-18 month projects…
When you say “breaker box is full” is that with load management? Because usually people aren’t aware of all the legal ways to get around it (check r/evcharging wiki etc).
Adam De Lay
Solar Wizard
Great! I had seen it at a conference this week.
I believe they’re only “bidirectional“ in the sense that you can configure it for a smart load OR AC coupling. So depending on how you configure it, power can flow in one direction or the other.
Randomuser841
New Member
Thinking about this - my assumption is that each of these is a solid state relay controlled by software. IF there's an energy monitor associated with each circuit (and there should be or else it's not "smart") I don't see any reason why the port can't be bidirectional since AC by nature is bidirectional. If there's a limit (and there absolutely could be) it's more like to be in software.
It's pretty clear they're thinking about a "standard" EV charger here which is a load (and increasingly a BIG load - I'm looking at you Ford). What is unknown is - are they thinking about bidirectional EV chargers which are basically AC coupled batteries with a dedicated inverter at the car OR "true" bidirectional chargers which are basically small DC fast chargers. dcbel has one of these integrated into their r16 which they CLAIM is shipping, but no one seems able to buy one. The old spec sheet says it's a 15.2kW DC "fast" charger (definitely faster and more efficient that anything else I'm aware of for home use but quite slow compared to any standalone DC fast charger like a TeslaSuperCharger).
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
I wrote assuming this was a software limitation.
I doubt they'll use an SSR - too expensive, needs special packaging to heat sink the extra loss, special performance characteristics like more deterministic on/off time irrelevant.
There are three bidirectional architectures I can think of (I don't have access to the relevant SAE/CCS specs to verify what is codified). They can DC couple into the car and inject onto the next common bus via AC, DC couple into the car and inject onto next common bus via DC (like a MPPT), AC couple into the onboard charger/inverter of the car. Those two common AC stage ones would be addressed by Gridboss. I would expect EG4 to be the ones to provide the EVSE capable of handling these cases.
Actually there is a 4th one, which is to use AC output from the car (could be as weak as V2L in vehicle capability) into a AC-DC charger (with output onto either 48V or HV DC bus).
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