EG4 18k - Massive Off Grid Problems

[AlexLTDLX]

Hi all. I'm new here, and I'm in the final stages of my off grid, 4,000 square foot barndominium build in southern coastal Texas. If this post is in the wrong place, I apologize and feel free to move it. When I first installed the 18k and battery banks, everything seemed fine. I could even run a heat gun on low (did it to soften some plastic for plumbing purposes). Then the firmware updates started happening... and things kept getting worse and worse. As it stands now, I'm not sure I'll be able to live in there without solving some of these issues.

First, the (current) setup:
- EG4 18k inverter
- 12x EG4 LL batteries
- 5 NE solar panels (just to keep the batteries charged while under construction)
- Ultimately, will have 24 panels in 2 strings
- 4 EG4 solar mini splits - 2x 2 ton units, 2x 1 ton units. 1 2 ton and 1 1 ton run off of 7 and 5 panels respectively
- Chargeverter and 6kW inverter backup charging generator





Now, on to the problems.

- I'm very sensitive to flicker. So all the bulbs/fixtures in the living space are Philips Eye Comfort/flicker free fixtures. Up until the last firmware update (1E1E, iirc), there didn't seem to be any led flicker. Now it looks like this - the camera is giving an accurate representation of what the flicker looks like:

- About a month ago, I dragged out an older (read: non-computerized, but in excellent shape) washing machine the previous owner left in a barn on the property so I wouldn't have to go to the laundromat anymore during construction. It worked fine. Then, (going by memory as best as I can remember), after a firmware update (prior to the 1E1E update), I suddenly started getting faults (and loss of power), specifically "vbus out of range." Every ten minutes or so. With the latest firmware update, the faults are now virtually continuous. I have to run the washing machine with a generator now. Except with the new firmware, the faults are now referred to as, "E019: Bus voltage high"

- One of the batteries started cycling between "standby" and "discharge" when all the other batteries were showing discharge, I've since disconnected that battery in hopes that it would resolve the next issue. It hasn't.

- Constant battery discharge. Even with only 5 panels connected, I'm still getting significantly more PV input than load. So much so, that unless the inverter is idling at a huge draw, the batteries should be a 100% SOC. They're not.

The top chart shows PV in; the bottom chart discharge for the same period.



Any help would be hugely appreciated. I'm hopefully going to get the cert of occupancy in the next couple of weeks and would love to not have to try to live with these problems.

 

[Quattrohead]

Need more details on your solar panels, I'm especially curious that you appear to have over 1 KW per panel which is quite extraordinary. 5 in series is probably not enough to give you any charge so I completely don't understand.
Can you detail your wiring and your settings.

 

[AlexLTDLX]

I'm not sure where you're getting 1 kW per panel; they're 370 watt panels. Wiring is as in the pics, if you have any specific questions, feel free to ask. As for settings, I've tried both lithium and lead acid battery types, and sig solar has also changed things remotely. But it's pretty simple - no grid, no permanent generator connection.

 

[BKY2003]

Can you call the supplier (SS?) and ask them to reinstall the old firmware?

 

[fnnwizard]

Hi all. I'm new here, and I'm in the final stages of my off grid, 4,000 square foot barndominium build in southern coastal Texas. If this post is in the wrong place, I apologize and feel free to move it. When I first installed the 18k and battery banks, everything seemed fine. I could even run a heat gun on low (did it to soften some plastic for plumbing purposes). Then the firmware updates started happening... and things kept getting worse and worse. As it stands now, I'm not sure I'll be able to live in there without solving some of these issues.

First, the (current) setup:
- EG4 18k inverter
- 12x EG4 LL batteries
- 5 NE solar panels (just to keep the batteries charged while under construction)
- Ultimately, will have 24 panels in 2 strings
- 4 EG4 solar mini splits - 2x 2 ton units, 2x 1 ton units. 1 2 ton and 1 1 ton run off of 7 and 5 panels respectively
- Chargeverter and 6kW inverter backup charging generator

View attachment 259686
View attachment 259687
View attachment 259688

Now, on to the problems.

- I'm very sensitive to flicker. So all the bulbs/fixtures in the living space are Philips Eye Comfort/flicker free fixtures. Up until the last firmware update (1E1E, iirc), there didn't seem to be any led flicker. Now it looks like this - the camera is giving an accurate representation of what the flicker looks like:

- About a month ago, I dragged out an older (read: non-computerized, but in excellent shape) washing machine the previous owner left in a barn on the property so I wouldn't have to go to the laundromat anymore during construction. It worked fine. Then, (going by memory as best as I can remember), after a firmware update (prior to the 1E1E update), I suddenly started getting faults (and loss of power), specifically "vbus out of range." Every ten minutes or so. With the latest firmware update, the faults are now virtually continuous. I have to run the washing machine with a generator now. Except with the new firmware, the faults are now referred to as, "E019: Bus voltage high"

- One of the batteries started cycling between "standby" and "discharge" when all the other batteries were showing discharge, I've since disconnected that battery in hopes that it would resolve the next issue. It hasn't.

- Constant battery discharge. Even with only 5 panels connected, I'm still getting significantly more PV input than load. So much so, that unless the inverter is idling at a huge draw, the batteries should be a 100% SOC. They're not.

The top chart shows PV in; the bottom chart discharge for the same period.
View attachment 259693
View attachment 259694

Any help would be hugely appreciated. I'm hopefully going to get the cert of occupancy in the next couple of weeks and would love to not have to try to live with these problems.

Can you go into maintenance tab, hit the read button, wait for it to refresh copletely, export button on upper right, and post the settings page?

Doesn't seem like you have monitor access (no dongle, no internet), so can you go into the local data and download everything you have in there and post?

Are your currently running with battery comms?

If not, run it with coms, but use Voltage based for everything.
Set system V to 56V for now,
Discharge settings to 48V for both on and off grid even if you run purely offgrid.

Can you call the supplier (SS?) and ask them to reinstall the old firmware?

I think with this 1E1E, can't go back.

 

[AlexLTDLX]

I too was told (by SS) that with 1E1E you can't roll back. I actually do have a dongle/wifi and am able to pull the settings remotely. See attached. I do have the battery coms connected, if that's what you mean. If it's something in the settings, I'm unaware of it - this 18k is pretty new stuff to me. I did update the LCD from v12 to v18 - I'm not sure why it's saying what it is about the LCD in the settings. I did set the discharge settings to 48 volts - they were set to 40. What does that change other than powering down the inverter (I assume)? I know the batts are pretty much done at 48 volts anyway. I also don't see a "system voltage" setting. I appreciate the time and the help!

 

[fnnwizard]

I too was told (by SS) that with 1E1E you can't roll back. I actually do have a dongle/wifi and am able to pull the settings remotely. See attached. I do have the battery coms connected, if that's what you mean. If it's something in the settings, I'm unaware of it - this 18k is pretty new stuff to me. I did update the LCD from v12 to v18 - I'm not sure why it's saying what it is about the LCD in the settings. I did set the discharge settings to 48 volts - they were set to 40. What does that change other than powering down the inverter (I assume)? I know the batts are pretty much done at 48 volts anyway. I also don't see a "system voltage" setting. I appreciate the time and the help!

Will you ever have grid wires connected to grid input of inverter or will you use chargeverter exclusively to AC charge the batts?

This is what you want to have in settings for now with Comms cable connected, but you may have to update firmware on those battery packs. Lithoium brand may be 6. I forget what it is with all the various EG4 packs.

Once you set this up, go into data history and far righ side see if you can see cell or lithium high low voltages.
If you can, download the data and post.

If not, you need to have EG4 help you do this. I am surprised that they have not at least gotten you up to date with this already.

So again, set to lithium and brand to zero or 6, set system charge Volts to 56.

 

[wpns]

I notice you only have one set of battery cables, can you add another set so there’s one set to each battery cabinet?

 

[wpns]

Why are you not in closed-loop mode?

 

[Quattrohead]

So again, set to lithium and brand to zero or 6

Needs to be lithium #1.

 

[TM48]

Five 370 watt panels are not anywhere near enough to keep 1200 amp hrs of battery charged much less balanced. As already pointed out you need both sets of battery cables installed. If there is anyway you could get EG4 into your system I'd recommend it to speed up getting workable settings. You could always remove access after.

 

[AlexLTDLX]

fnnwizard - I will never have grid wires attached to the inverter. The chargeverter is my only other source of charging (from a generator or I suppose I could run 400 feet of cable from the barn on the property (which has power, but the barndominium - this main building with the solar setup) would've cost $12k + to run power to - it's pretty far into the property, which is 10 acres. The SS people told me to run lead acid as battery type for now; I'm also chasing a battery issue. But last night I realized that I no longer need AC for the winter (our highs in the winter are upper 60's to mid 70's), so today I'll parallel in an additional 7 panels (for a total of 12) that were previously used to run a 2 ton solar minisplit in the garage (which is 2,000 square feet - we'll see how that works out in the summer, but it does share a wall that's 1,500 square feet with the conditioned living space which has 4 tons of cooling). I'll make those changes and see what happens. I may tie in the sketchy battery today when that batt voltages get within a tenth of a volt of each other, just to see what it does.

wpns - I could, but the two racks are paralleled internally. In fact, they're attached together, so they roll around as one unit. Once I move in, if I see battery voltages drifting apart under normal living conditions, then I might go ahead and do that. So far, even running a tankless 5.5kW water heater or a 7kW dryer I haven't seen that happen. The cables are 2/0 and the bus bars are pretty massive. I do have an external set of bus bars standing by if I need them. I'm not in closed loop mode because that's what SS told me to run.

Quattrohead - That's what SS told me too. Their batts should be set to #1. I'll sneak up on things, but I need to get less reliant on calling SS and understanding how this whole thing works.

TM48 - That doesn't make any sense to me. Nobody's living there (yet), so most of the time the only draw is a wifi router, a usb powered CCTV cam and a few nightlights - total draw is well under 50 watts. When contractors are there during the day, they usually turn some lights on, but that about the only thing going on. As you can see by the charts in the original post, I'm putting in on average about 2kW a day more than I'm using. Unless the inverter is idling at what I would consider an abnormally high power consumption, the self discharge of LiFePo4 batts should be very low, to the point of being negligible day to day. I'd expect the batteries to be fully charged. *EDIT* - after looking at AntronX's post, I stand corrected. My apologies.

Thanks all for your help so far!

 

[AntronX]

I'm putting in on average about 2kW a day more than I'm using.

2 kWh / 24 h = 83 watts inverter idle + small loads. Seems about right.

 

[AlexLTDLX]

Just a couple of generic notes - the main arrays should be installed in the upcoming weeks. So right now, I'm using a less than optimal array of 12 panels (a west-facing porch roof) split into 5 panels for a 1 ton solar mini split and seven panels for a 2 ton solar mini split. The main arrays will be on a 50x12 south facing porch roof.

And though this is my first solar setup on this scale, I'm no stranger to high-power lithium stuff. My youtube channel (which I won't link to here, because I'm not sure of how Will and the forum's TOS would take to it) is devoted to my hobby - which is car stuff, particularly, forced induction, and even more particularly for the last several years developing an electric supercharger that actually works. So far we're up to 800hp with a setup that runs at 63 volts and pulls 678 amps running. It has twin LTO (lithium titanate oxide) packs in the trunk to supply the power. Those do have a higher self-discharge than LiFePo4, but they can provide massive current on demand. With voltage sag, the electric supercharger runs at about 34,000 watts continuous (well, as continuously as you can run 800 hp). If anyone really wants to see that stuff, my youtube name is the same as my user name here. And you can see the barndominium build in the solar-related vids (which there are only two of so far... this is a lot of work). Those I definitely won't link to here because I'm an SS affiliate and that would violate the TOS.

AntronX - Yeah, now that you put it that way, that makes sense - somehow I didn't look at it like that but seeing it in writing (I was just knee-jerking on that point, TBH) it's pretty obvious. Thanks for writing it out for me. I'll see how things behave when I add the other 7 panels to that string for now.

 

[AntronX]

Nice youtube channel. Subscribed to see your solar build. If LED flicker bothers you consider adding small 48V inverter just for lights and small loads like wifi routers.

 

[BKY2003]

When I first installed the 18k and battery banks, everything seemed fine. I could even run a heat gun on low (did it to soften some plastic for plumbing purposes). Then the firmware updates started happening... and things kept getting worse and worse.

That happened to me also on my first 18Kpv. That is why I am so reluctant on changing my firmware. You might have to wait until they come out with a better firmware.

 

[42OhmsPA]

@EG4TechSolutionsTeam help this guy out please?

..... Rant deleted.

 

[AlexLTDLX]

AntronX - Thanks. So far, there have been no complaints from the limited digital things I've plugged in. FWIW, the lights flickering is usually always there, but it does vary in intensity. The video I linked above is (so far) the worst I've seen.

BKY2003 - Yeah, I hear you. But since this is all new to me, I'm largely just doing what I'm told until I learn the ins and outs of the system. Thanks to you all, I'm already much more confident going through the settings and changing them. Though I'm still treading lightly.

42OhmsPA - I actually have a T2 tech call scheduled with SS for Weds, but I haven't heard back on how that contact is supposed to happen. I'll gladly take any help I can get at this point. Hopefully the EG4 team has some insights as well. Honestly, with the contractors coming in this week to finish things up and I'm trying to get the final inspections for the cert of occupancy before the end of the year for tax reasons, I'm being pulled multiple directions every day and I feel like I'm going flat out. I'm also nursing three separate injuries and don't bounce back like I used to when I was younger.

My biggest issues right now are the flickering lights and the inability to run my washing machine. I'm having to take Excedrin every night after being under those flickering lights over there and that messes with my sleep (the caffeine). Another symptom is confusion - for example, just now for the life of me I can't remember when my next trash pickup day is right now. It's a bit unsettling. That doesn't bode well for all the other stuff that will be used once we move in. The flaky battery may just need a full cycling with a top balance (they've never been fully charged), or something else that doesn't require an RMA. But with the 10 year warranty, I feel I have a little time to deal with it.

Thanks all for your help so far. In this short time I feel like my knowledge of this system has vastly expanded thanks to you all.

 

[wpns]

wpns - I could, but the two racks are paralleled internally. In fact, they're attached together, so they roll around as one unit. Once I move in, if I see battery voltages drifting apart under normal living conditions, then I might go ahead and do that.

It's not the battery voltage/SOC I'm worried about so much as the impedance between the batteries and the inverter. My PowerProOutDoorWallMount batteries have _two_ sets of cables between the battery that's under the inverter and the inverter battery terminals, and you have only one.

Just a thought.

 

[EPicTony]

Reinstall the old working firmware - done.

 

[wpns]

Reinstall the old working firmware - done.

/* with 1E1E you can't roll back. */
They refactored a bunch of stuff to make more room in the memory structures(?) so there's no going back once you've upgraded to the latest firmware.

 

[EPicTony]

/* with 1E1E you can't roll back. */
They refactored a bunch of stuff to make more room in the memory structures(?) so there's no going back once you've upgraded to the latest firmware.

Well how lame is that ? Break the product and don't allow rollbacks - uggggg. This is why I'm not going to upgrade my Eg4-6000xp's any time soon as they are working great now.

 

[AntronX]

They refactored a bunch of stuff to make more room in the memory structures(?) so there's no going back once you've upgraded to the latest firmware.

Then it needs to be sent back and make EG4 pay for shipping or charge back on your CC. That's the only way these manufacturers will start to care about not breaking user's systems after the sale. Making irreversible remote updates is unacceptable. @James Showalter

 

[42OhmsPA]

I hope they are able to get things resolved quickly for you.
I can relate to being pulled all over the place.
Sweet channel by the way; don't go sledgehammer on the solar system just yet

 

[fnnwizard]

2 kWh / 24 h = 83 watts inverter idle + small loads. Seems about right.

Solar providing on avg 5kWh per day according to chart. 2kWh excess is about right, so 5 panels should be enough to keep those batts charged per his use basis.

However, the low charge current of 0-2A/pack over 11-12 parallel packs over 5-6Hrs, coupled with even lower current during non solar hours may not all register with the BMS so need to see all V data first.

We might not be able to fix flickeing lights since that may be more firmware issue, but battery issue/washing machine might be able to fix if we can get baseline status of packs and cells.

Op, get the comms going with your packs and read the data and post. From there much more help can be given.