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EG4 18k - Massive Off Grid Problems

robby said:
I don't see any mention of updates being required or the the warranty will be voided.
That is what @wpns said, is that true?
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Well, not the inverter, but the batteries anyway:

Warranty - EG4 14.3kWh PowerPro Wallmount All Weather - EG4 Electronics

EG4 14.3kWh PowerPro WallMount All Weather: 10-year prorated warranty. Register within a year or provide proof of purchase for full coverage.
eg4electronics.com eg4electronics.com
/*
Failure to update with the most recent firmware version, when known defects/issues are corrected.
*/

Kinda short sighted, IMHO, but I'm only a customer.
 
42OhmsPA said:
They never should be in mass production and retail sale if they are still being discovered. In my opinion that shows they were rushed to market and profits surpassed quality and reliability.
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Who has produced a product in the last decade that was ready to go out of the box? Buy a band new phone (or router, camera, switch, TV, etc) today, and when you are setting it up you'll first have to do a software update. I would hope there would be firmware/software updates and problems and previously unknown security issues are identified and fixed. I've thrown out too many routers, cameras, and other small network bits because they can't be updated, and there are known security vulnerabilities.
 
wpns said:
Who has produced a product in the last decade that was ready to go out of the box? Buy a band new phone (or router, camera, switch, TV, etc) today, and when you are setting it up you'll first have to do a software update. I would hope there would be firmware/software updates and problems and previously unknown security issues are identified and fixed. I've thrown out too many routers, cameras, and other small network bits because they can't be updated, and there are known security vulnerabilities.
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Speaking solar, I've never updated the firmware on my JBD BMS's (I did adjust parameters to where I wanted them), I've never updated firmware on my SRNE inverters. (Many many MWh of trouble free operations). I never updated the firmware when I was running my Voltronic based inverter. I have updated Solar Assistant because I wanted / needed new features.

I've updated software on my phones / rooted them and flashed new Roms because I wanted the newest OS / builds.

I flashed DD-Wrt on a router a while back because I wanted those features.

In my mind software updates to address security vulnerabilities and / or provide new features are completely different than a firmware update to fix equipment and get it operating correctly and/or provide warranty coverage.
 
wpns said:
They changed their terms recently to include that, but I'm grandfathered. 😇 You could probably make a case for delaying updates 'till they get it right', which as you will appreciate, might be forever.

Note I'm not actually against firmware that adds more features or fixes bugs, but clearly they are releasing firmware that doesn't work perfectly in all circumstances. That's the part that's hard to get right.

I'm going to stick with FAAB-1B1C till 1E1E or it's successors have been out for a year or there's a clearly compelling reason to upgrade.

https://resource.solarcloudsystem.c...date/FirmwareVersionUpgradePolicy_24_8_28.pdf has a few outs, including 'ignore this change', 'testing', 'Firmware Version Rollback'. [Too bad it's an image instead of text or I could copy/paste, but that's the professionalism we've come to expect from LUX/EG4/SS, and there are _way_ other things to worry about from The Cabal.]

To be fair, they've come a long way, and I'm mostly happy with my system (bang for the buck I don't know that _I_ could have done better), and things are pretty stable as long as I don't touch anything important. I mean it made it through the summer without anyone on-site, which can't be said of some of my other systems.
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The word "warranty" doesn't even appear in that linked document. Nor is it even identified as being published by EG4. Where is this new policy documented? It's not on the EG4 website that I can find - the only mention there about firmware updates for the 18Kpv is that the warranty may be voided for "unauthorized firmware updates."
 
jeff.lankford said:
The word "warranty" doesn't even appear in that linked document. Nor is it even identified as being published by EG4. Where is this new policy documented? It's not on the EG4 website that I can find - the only mention there about firmware updates for the 18Kpv is that the warranty may be voided for "unauthorized firmware updates."
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On the EG4 monitor, where you upgrade the firmware.
 

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AlexLTDLX said:
Just wanted to update this thread. We moved in and spent the first night in the building on New Year's eve, and are currently living in here while moving in and finishing up various details. The problems still exist; I'll break them down with notes:

1. Lights flickering - I can't seem to figured why it's worse sometimes than others. Lights with individual supplies are not affected, and Philips dimmable "eye care" bulbs are most resistant to the flickering - though at times they flicker too. Other flicker-free fixtures were so bad they had to be replaced (like in the first video - those were Philips flicker-free fixtures, but replaced with variable color temp fixture that look almost exactly the same but seem more resistant to flickering).

2. Washing machine killing the inverter - This is the "vbus over voltage" error. We did some laundry a little while ago with no issues. However, today, while the machine was running, the dreaded error returned and killed the inverter (i.e. red error light and no power output). It seems that there are two factors at play - with the PV connected, the error occurs when there's a good amount of power coming in from the panels - still only have 1 array connected, and it's in mppt #1. The voltage on the array is around 400 volts and about 2kW. The other factor is when there is little load on the inverter. The weather today is great (mid 60's), so no ac or heat running. The refrigerator does seem to help stabilize the issue, but only when the compressor's running. I restarted the inverter and disconnected the PV and am running the washing machine while I write this - it seems to be ok so far.

3. Heavy loads (like a table saw powering up) will also cause the "vbus over voltage error." This can be avoided by simultaneously placing an additional heavy load on the inverter - 1kW or more - when starting the saw. Then the error doesn't occur.

My "tier 2" tech call last month netted nothing useful. I contend that there are major issues with firmware 1E1E.
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I had flicker with 1e1e as well. If you do not have any grid wires hooked to the inverter and use it off grid only as I do, Ive had good luck with faab-1717 with no flicker just as if you were on grid. It's been great. I had a man from eg4 do the install. His name is Markus_eg4, I don't know his status at this point. Once you find an update that works fine, you should leave it alone. I think 85% of your issues in the software. Mine is rock solid and I leave it alone.
 
42OhmsPA said:
For that I go back to my prior comment that not enough testing was done; if issues are found that mandate a firmware update something is wrong with the bigger picture.
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Yes I agree on that point.
The Inverter policy at least has an escape clause.
I really dislike Signature Solar/EG4 constantly evolving warranty policies. I suspect that if one needs to use the warranty several years from now they are going to try and enforce the latest policy they have on their website.
 
I can’t speak for everyone else but, In my experience EG4 has been wonderful with my warranty claims. So it’s hard for me to wrap my head around these conjectures.
 
BKY2003 said:
I can’t speak for everyone else but, In my experience EG4 has been wonderful with my warranty claims. So it’s hard for me to wrap my head around these conjectures.
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I agree.

It's the freaking DIY solar forums. If you want to set it and forget it, I'm not sure this is the right place. You can just pay a company $10k more and never worry about it again...until that company goes out of business and you end up here anyways (been there, done that).

This is new and developing tech. I don't love being a beta tester, but I saved thousands of dollars and learned a shitload....and EG4/SS and the folks here have always come through.

Sometimes you need help while you do it yourself. At least EG4 puts in some effort.
 
I have already mentioned the flickering issue on the EG4 forum. I have not heard anything back. I do not have the other problems you seem to have, but the flickering is very annoying at times...and I can't seem to figure out why it sometimes occurs worse than at other times. I have switched many lights to Philip Flicker Free bulbs, and while that helps, it has not fixed it completely. I think I started noticing this after the 1E1E updated, but I could be wrong.
 
BKY2003 said:
conjectures
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This is the problem. If I have a problem in 5 years either:

1) SS/EG4 is going to make it right, and they'll be able to _afford_ to, because they are a big successful company who wants to preserve their reputation(*), I'll be happy and sing their praises here, and everything will be good.

2) They are out of business, there's no service, there's no warranty, and I'm on my own or SOL like those folks with the bricked Deye inverters. Then I'm querying the hive mind for DIY repair suggestions, the good vendor today, or asking about solar systems for the dog house, because that's where I'll be living. 🐶

3) Something in between. No-one knows, and there's lots of conjecture, but no-one can know. There's no troll sitting in a basement somewhere dreaming up restrictive warranty agreements ("I know, let's make the warranty 10 years from the build date, then we can screw someone with a long supply chain!"), but there's clearly also no-one looking over the warranty agreements with a customer-focussed eye to regularize them and make sure anomalies don't creep in. Nor should there be, at the end of the day it'll be one of the three scenarios above, based on the policy of the day, which will depend how successful they are.

(*) Someone (maybe Dell?) did a survey, and people who had a problem that was immediately fixed to their satisfaction were _happier_ with a company/product than people who never had a problem. Which makes sense. Look at the rep EcoWorthy is getting. If it weren't for my issues with their water pumps, and my satisfaction with (and investment in) the SS/EG4 ecosystem, I'd definitely be looking at them. In a few weeks they went from "this stuff is junk" to "Hey, I'm going to buy more", but only because they immediately jumped on problems, went completely overboard to fix it "Let me send you a new battery, plus a new BMS, plus cables, keep the old one!", and respond quickly on the forum.
 
wpns said:
This is the problem. If I have a problem in 5 years either:

1) SS/EG4 is going to make it right, and they'll be able to _afford_ to, because they are a big successful company who wants to preserve their reputation(*), I'll be happy and sing their praises here, and everything will be good.

2) They are out of business, there's no service, there's no warranty, and I'm on my own or SOL like those folks with the bricked Deye inverters. Then I'm querying the hive mind for DIY repair suggestions, the good vendor today, or asking about solar systems for the dog house, because that's where I'll be living. 🐶

3) Something in between. No-one knows, and there's lots of conjecture, but no-one can know. There's no troll sitting in a basement somewhere dreaming up restrictive warranty agreements ("I know, let's make the warranty 10 years from the build date, then we can screw someone with a long supply chain!"), but there's clearly also no-one looking over the warranty agreements with a customer-focussed eye to regularize them and make sure anomalies don't creep in. Nor should there be, at the end of the day it'll be one of the three scenarios above, based on the policy of the day, which will depend how successful they are.

(*) Someone (maybe Dell?) did a survey, and people who had a problem that was immediately fixed to their satisfaction were _happier_ with a company/product than people who never had a problem. Which makes sense. Look at the rep EcoWorthy is getting. If it weren't for my issues with their water pumps, and my satisfaction with (and investment in) the SS/EG4 ecosystem, I'd definitely be looking at them. In a few weeks they went from "this stuff is junk" to "Hey, I'm going to buy more", but only because they immediately jumped on problems, went completely overboard to fix it "Let me send you a new battery, plus a new BMS, plus cables, keep the old one!", and respond quickly on the forum.
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I've been following the ecoworthy 48v rack mount battery thread and it's very impressive how Bill and his team are handling things with the early units. It may be a situation where Bill has say 20 customers with issues, he can handle those himself no problems. With the scale of sig solar, maybe they have 2000 open tickets for issues ranging from someone who has something hooked up with reverse polarity (easy tier 1 fix), or flickering lights with the latest 18kpv firmware release which cannot be downgraded due to refactoring (no fix at this time).
 
Brucey said:
With the scale of sig solar, maybe they have 2000 open tickets for issues ranging from someone who has something hooked up with reverse polarity (easy tier 1 fix), or flickering lights with the latest 18kpv firmware release which cannot be downgraded due to refactoring (no fix at this time).
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Sure, but then it's a tradeoff between hiring and training more tech support folks and going out of business because you spent too much on tech support. That's a business decision, but that's what management is all about. I wouldn't want to be James, and have to juggle all these things on a day to day basis, much less forecast and plan ahead for sales growth and ramping up support to meet requirements. There are no easy answers, and armchair quarterbacking can only go so far. 8*)
 
wpns said:
Sure, but then it's a tradeoff between hiring and training more tech support folks and going out of business because you spent too much on tech support. That's a business decision, but that's what management is all about. I wouldn't want to be James, and have to juggle all these things on a day to day basis, much less forecast and plan ahead for sales growth and ramping up support to meet requirements. There are no easy answers, and armchair quarterbacking can only go so far. 8*)
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One of the reasons I went with a Midnite Rosie is knowing I can call Washington and speak to Ryan the Rosie specialist without having to go through a bunch of phone trees and endless delays and denials to get answers. I'm sure Midnjte isnt running dozens of tractor trailers into a gigantic warehouse all day long like eg4 is. But that's not a bad thing ime. To keep the personal, Small business feel.

Used to work in a small startup. Handful of expensive machines out in production, low six figures. Amongst other duties I would handle some technical support. One of the things I would do is ship replacement parts out next day air. Or if close enough drive out to the client site myself. Because these clients need their machines up and running. Eventually as the company grew beancounters started questioning this. I left shortly after, one of the reasons being I could no deliver the support experience that I felt our clients deserved. I've heard stories of how the owner of Trophy Batteries also goes above and beyond with support if needed. So there's still some vendors who can deliver what we deserve for our $$$
 
Ok, so to bring this back around on topic...

TM48 - The inverter IS installed according to the manual and the NEC - in fact, this is new construction, and the inverter to panel connections were made by the electricians, and passed inspection. If you can specifically point something out in my installation that the manual or NEC contradicts, then I'll be happy to address it. I'm on good terms with the electricians (the owner - who is a master electrician - and the master who did the work). I can call them any time.

Quattrohead - You're right, it's not about heat, it's about voltage drop. Which is why I mentioned it first. 3% at max load is considered acceptable, a quarter of a percent is pretty remarkable. Installing external bus bars and the added connections is a recipe for not only additional failure points, particularly over time, but also a recipe for additional voltage drop. If I was to run a second set of cables, I'd do it straight from the battery racks right to the inverter with no external bus bars - not only do I have the bus bars, but I also have a second set of cables. When I make these sorts of connections, I use a hydraulic crimper, I measure them with an actual milliohm meter (kelvin clips and all), and I install them with an actual torque wrench. All best practices, which in my experience, alleviate issues down the road.

FARMBOY - Thank You! All the guessing and uninformed criticism was getting annoying before you chimed in. My experience matches yours exactly. I've also found many others with the same issues. When the place was still under construction, among the first lights installed were shop lights in the garage/shop space (what will become my "happy place" - 2,000 square feet of 25' high ceilings and all my toys). At that time, I was on 1717, iirc. The shop lights DID NOT flicker. It wasn't until after a call to Sig Solar that the tech upgraded me to 1E1E while on the phone that the flicker issues started. The vbus issues (what prompted the call in the first place) have been isolated to a few appliances when there is little to no load on the inverter - add load, and boom - no issues. The PV circuits have been eliminated, the culprits (i.e. appliances) have been identified, but as yet, no solution is available. The question I have for you - how did you roll back to 1717? Or am I misreading your post? And I agree - once these things are resolved, then I'm not going to mess with future updates. Just a reminder, this is a fully off grid system.
 
On the bright side, I just hit the inverter with (almost) max load. 5 tons of EG4 minisplits running in heatpump (i.e. heat) mode, since we're at the beginning of this cold snap and it's 46 degrees outside (I have 6 tons in total, but the sixth is in the guest suite, and nobody's there at the moment, so that was off); and I took a shower with a 5.5 kW tankless water heater. The lights didn't even dim for a split second, the inverter held the load for the duration of the shower. It was at 11.3 kW for about 15-20 minutes with no problems.
MaxLoad.jpg

The PV input is from an "auxiliary" array - I'm going outside now to connect the first of the main arrays. To sum up - the primary issues are still the vbus overvoltage, which happens under light load when engaging certain appliances (so far, it's been isolated to a table saw which belongs to a contractor and our washing machine - seems things with even big universal motors (like my 12" miter saw) don't cause it, so I'm currently speculating it's inductive motors) and the lights flickering.

I do appreciate all of you who are trying to help. I'm still of the mindset that the flickering is a firmware issue, and the vbus thing may be firmware or just a flaw of the design of the inverter. I just need to run an additional load when doing laundry, I guess.
 
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