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diy solar

EG4 18K Whole house setup problem after upgrading from Growatts.

This seems to be the problem exactly. Question is, can I just take it out of off-grid mode? Or do I need to tweak a bunch of other settings also to make this all work?
You need to take it out of off-grid mode (but it will likely leak small amounts of power back to the POCO). With off-grid mode there is NO way for it it to limit AC power used it will pass-through as much power as the load needs and has no ability to boost the power with the inverter/batteries. With off-grid mode set to off then it can boost power with the inverter/batteries and can limit the AC power consumed as long as the batteries have enough charge.
 
I just tested this out and can verify you found a limitation of the 18 and it behaves exactly as you have described. I'm basically regurgitating below what you wrote already, but hopefully made it easy for those following to understand.

As for tech support saying ac power is in addition to grid power, it is not, since 18 derates power to ac charge as you also described in detail.

When setting (in your case) max grid power to 9kW, then AC charge power to 9Kw...
As long as regular loads are less than 9kW, AC charge will send energy towards Batts and max grid limitation setting is respected.

As loads increase, AC batt charging will get derated until batt charging goes to zero, but grid will be tasked to keep providing power all non ac charge over 9Kw.

Example:
Loads 5kW, 4kW goes to AC charge.
Loads 7kW, 2kW goes to AC charge
Loads 9kW, zero goes to AC charge
Loads 11kW, 18 will try to pull 11kW from grid (and potentially trip breaker.)

Grid power cannot be supplemented from Batt.

There is no solution for you, at least at this time, sorry.

If you want to post your data logs, perhaps we can figure out a way to work around the limitation, or minimize its effect.

Oh, in your settings, I would set your V to 55.2V - 56.8V depending on what is at the battery terminals. 59.2V is too high and more than likely drive BMS to disconnect. If batts are allowed to reach lower V in that setting first, 18 will put batts in standby, even doing a small discharge but BMS will always be ready to go.

View attachment 253140

To be fair, Im not sure there is any system out there that can do this.
 
I just tested this out and can verify you found a limitation of the 18 and it behaves exactly as you have described. I'm basically regurgitating below what you wrote already, but hopefully made it easy for those following to understand.

As for tech support saying ac power is in addition to grid power, it is not, since 18 derates power to ac charge as you also described in detail.

When setting (in your case) max grid power to 9kW, then AC charge power to 9Kw...
As long as regular loads are less than 9kW, AC charge will send energy towards Batts and max grid limitation setting is respected.

As loads increase, AC batt charging will get derated until batt charging goes to zero, but grid will be tasked to keep providing power all non ac charge over 9Kw.

Example:
Loads 5kW, 4kW goes to AC charge.
Loads 7kW, 2kW goes to AC charge
Loads 9kW, zero goes to AC charge
Loads 11kW, 18 will try to pull 11kW from grid (and potentially trip breaker.)

Grid power cannot be supplemented from Batt.

There is no solution for you, at least at this time, sorry.

If you want to post your data logs, perhaps we can figure out a way to work around the limitation, or minimize its effect.

Oh, in your settings, I would set your V to 55.2V - 56.8V depending on what is at the battery terminals. 59.2V is too high and more than likely drive BMS to disconnect. If batts are allowed to reach lower V in that setting first, 18 will put batts in standby, even doing a small discharge but BMS will always be ready to go.

View attachment 253140

So a friend of mine who has installed a lot of solar tells me that this is a very basic thing. All inverters he has installed from various brands can do this. Meaning adding grid power to supplement battery power draw or adding battery draw to grid draw to power loads.

He is suggesting that I'm still missing some fine tuning on the settings.
And that all major inverters that have been designed fairly recently should have no problems with this.

So maybe people can help me identify what else I may need to try?

Under AC Charge: What would be the point to set "Charge Last" enabled? Charging batteries as last priority? I'm not sure what the purpose would be. Relevance?

What is the point of Battery Backup Mode settings?
Enabling PV charge priority? Does it matter if PV production goes to loads or battery first? Not sure how this whole section is used and relevant.

Forced Discharge seems to be something I would want. Hovering over the "?" It says "Forcably discharges batteries to supply loads demand" This seems like something helpful. Discharge batteries to cover load. I would interpret this as exactly what I'm missing. Using the batteries to cover any load not covered by grid. What am I missing? Is also says "OR export to grid when Grid sellback is enbable" (which is disabled and not relevant)

Not sure the Peak Shaving, AC couple and Smart Load settings are relevant or useful to my situation.

Suggestions?

If this is truly a lost cause, I will probably add 5 chargeverters to my system (back up to 8 units on my wall).
I will then disconnect both grid and generator from my 3 x 18k EG4s completely and just let them handle my load full time (36kw total power max) and handle solar and charging/discharging battery with solar.

The chargeverters consume only 10 W each to function. And I'd add 5. Before I had 9 Growatts each consuming 70W per hour.
Essentially I would set up 2 x 5000 chargeverters and connect them to grid on the AC side and to my battery bank. If SOC < 20%, charge, until SOC back up to 50%.
I would set up 3 x5000 more (15kw total) to connect to my generator.
IF SOC < 10%, start generator, turn off at 50%.

Here's the beauty of this setup (similar to my old setup)
My EG4 18k x 3 just handle loads and solar and will never know about the grid and generator. So they will just run. Simple.

My first set of chargeverters will turn on the grid when SOC falls and add 10k of charging power in the background that's turned on and off.
My second set of chargeverters will turn on the generator is SOC still falls. (or grid failed and we further fell). But it can also add to what the grid is already providing.

So if my bank is low and the grid isn't keeping up with 10kw, the generator is added for another 15 kw in addition, for a total of 25kw of charging power between the two. And my load can be up to 36kw at any moment, not limited to either 10kw (grid) or 15kw (gen).
This is essentially what I had with my previous setup, but I only had the generator backup for 15kw, no grid at all. Inserting the grid here makes my generator runs way less likely and common than before, but also beefs up my total charging capacity in the background.

Technically, if my load is 10 kw in the middle of the night, then what the grid puts on the battery bus bar gets passed directly to load in this system and the battery is neither charged nor discharged.

I was actually hoping to not have to go this route with my new shiny EG4 18kw and was assured they could do everything I needed. I'm still hoping someone has the secret settings handy or combination of settings so I can do what I need with these instead of adding the chargeverters back into the mix.

Thanks.
 
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Isn't that what Victron power assist does?

Victron is in a different class so it definitely can do this via power assist or ess. Even the eg4 says it can supplement the power from a Gen, BUT let's think about what happens when the soc is low, say 10%- you have a battery that's close to dead, and loads greater than what the grid can supply. What does the victron do? Keep supplementing until battery is fully dead? Shut down? Doesn't victron have a minimum soc for power assist/ess?
 
Another tidbit. Obviously, If I'm running 36kw load around the clock and my battery bank is down to 10% and I can put in less than 36kw to keep up, my system is toast. In reality, this scenario does not play out like that. I'd put my cutoffs at 30-40% in the winter. Most of the draw will be below 15KW, but occasionally draw could be in the 20s or up to 30kw, with spikes in use and some randomness. I've been completely off-grid for 2 years now and have gone through 2 brutal winters in Idaho, with overcast, losts of snow and low solar production. My generator even at just 15kw has done well for me. My initial attempt here was to run the generator less (noise, propane use, etc) Obviously I wouldn't be charging my electric car if my SOC is 10% and I'm on grid and generator backup. But as it sits right now, my grid breaker flips at 10kw and as this looks will do the same in overloading my generator once it hits 15kw.
 
For non-Victron, it comes down to this: in off-grid mode (either a by definition off-grid inverter like an EG4 6000XP) or another that's put in that mode, it can't charge and discharge the battery at the same time. When a hybrid inverter is in 'assist' mode, it's essentially running in parallel with the grid. It has to be able to match the frequency, etc. to supplement load.

Absent an interconnect with your poco, if you switch into hybrid mode, it's likely you'd have moments of unwanted feedback to the grid when large loads turn off. That topic has been well covered in many threads.
 
Forced Discharge seems to be something I would want. Hovering over the "?" It says "Forcably discharges batteries to supply loads demand" This seems like something helpful. Discharge batteries to cover load. I would interpret this as exactly what I'm missing. Using the batteries to cover any load not covered by grid. What am I missing? Is also says "OR export to grid when Grid sellback is enbable" (which is disabled and not relevant)
I don't know if this will work in conjunction with AC charge. If it does, your prob might be solved unless batts are below the threshold to kick in.I might be able to test this tonight. I'm interested to know also.

18 will pull from grid to help battery. It will not pull from Batt to help grid while in AC charge mode. I don't know if Force discharge will supercede AC charge settings. I want to test this tonight.

Under AC Charge: What would be the point to set "Charge Last" enabled? Charging batteries as last priority? I'm not sure what the purpose would be. Relevance?
Excess PV goes to export/sell back first if demand $ was good. Say batts at 80% and its 4pm. You still have good PV power, but don't need >80% batts for night/next day. You sell to grid if $ was good.

What is the point of Battery Backup Mode settings?
Enabling PV charge priority? Does it matter if PV production goes to loads or battery first? Not sure how this whole section is used and relevant.

Backup puts battery on reserve to serve as emergency backup instead of drawing from it if grid has chance to be down.

PV priority will use all solar to charge batts first and grid feeds load. However you need to make sure the power setting is maxed at whatever your solar is capable of, otherwise excess over setting goes to waste. You can only do this if loads are =<10kW.

Don't know if force discharge will supercede PV Priority either.

Your confinement is when pulling from grid has priority. Which is when batts are below soc threshold or charging via AC/PV priority.

Hmmm, if forced discharge can override, your prob might be solved unless batts are below the force discharge threshold to kick in which should be set to lowest of all soc cutoff. Then I guess gen can kick in before this.
 
Forced discharge will optimally discharge and for me seemed to WASTE the pv power to speed up discharge, so I don't believe you want forced discharge. It seems to be target to discharge as fast as possible no matter what.

I now use on-grid SOC/Voltage cut-off and that seems to do what I need to do. If you are fully off-grid you would need to use off-grid SOC/voltage cut-off.
 
I don't know if this will work in conjunction with AC charge. If it does, your prob might be solved unless batts are below the threshold to kick in.I might be able to test this tonight. I'm interested to know also.

18 will pull from grid to help battery. It will not pull from Batt to help grid while in AC charge mode. I don't know if Force discharge will supercede AC charge settings. I want to test this tonight.


Excess PV goes to export/sell back first if demand $ was good. Say batts at 80% and its 4pm. You still have good PV power, but don't need >80% batts for night/next day. You sell to grid if $ was good.



Backup puts battery on reserve to serve as emergency backup instead of drawing from it if grid has chance to be down.

PV priority will use all solar to charge batts first and grid feeds load. However you need to make sure the power setting is maxed at whatever your solar is capable of, otherwise excess over setting goes to waste. You can only do this if loads are =<10kW.

Don't know if force discharge will supercede PV Priority either.

Your confinement is when pulling from grid has priority. Which is when batts are below soc threshold or charging via AC/PV priority.

Hmmm, if forced discharge can override, your prob might be solved unless batts are below the force discharge threshold to kick in which should be set to lowest of all soc cutoff. Then I guess gen can kick in before this.

Tested while in Off Grid mode, Forced Discharge does nothing while in AC Charge Mode.

Test param:
Drawing 5kW from grid --> 4kW charging EV, .5kW charging ESS, .5kW misc loads.

Set force discharge @2kW, same time schedule as AC charge.

Lowered Max. AC Input Power(kW) (MACIP) systematically by 1kW at a time.
AC charging of ESS stopped as expected when (MACIP) was set at 4k.
Continue setting (MACIP) to as low as 2kW.

EV charging and loads continue pulling 4.5kW from grid with no ESS support .

So 18 does not respect grid limit settings while ac charging.

If I find time tomorrow, can test w/ same param on the ac coupled system under On Grid Mode with no worries about exporting since PTO'd on that one.
 
No. Just buying 3 more of them (5kw each) to handle my grid (10kw) and generator input.
Would increase my "inverters" on the wall to 6 again. But this would potentially solve my problem and get me back close to my original setup I had with 6

No. Just buying 3 more of them (5kw each) to handle my grid (10kw) and generator input.
Would increase my "inverters" on the wall to 6 again. But this would potentially solve my problem and get me back close to my original setup I had with 6 Growatts + 3 Growatts.
Plus's for chargverters vs using inverters for grid and gen charging....

No full time draw from batteries, and no chance of grid problems. Sounds like a simple fix to me. Also less of a chance of a grid surge, lightning surge from grid to take out your expensive inverters. Also saves your inverters from gen power quality issues.
 
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Tested while in Off Grid mode, Forced Discharge does nothing while in AC Charge Mode.

Test param:
Drawing 5kW from grid --> 4kW charging EV, .5kW charging ESS, .5kW misc loads.

Set force discharge @2kW, same time schedule as AC charge.

Lowered Max. AC Input Power(kW) (MACIP) systematically by 1kW at a time.
AC charging of ESS stopped as expected when (MACIP) was set at 4k.
Continue setting (MACIP) to as low as 2kW.

EV charging and loads continue pulling 4.5kW from grid with no ESS support .

So 18 does not respect grid limit settings while ac charging.

If I find time tomorrow, can test w/ same param on the ac coupled system under On Grid Mode with no worries about exporting since PTO'd on that one.

I think the place where it won't/can't respect the grid limits is if the load (without charging) needs more than the grid limit (and the batteries are dead and/or the grid limit + inverter power is still not enough), and/or if it is in full pass-through mode without an inverter being used. I don't see any physical way to enforce the grid limit (outside of something resembling a breaker and/or a fuse and simply turning off the load) since there is no nice way to reduce power to a load without lowering the voltage and risking damaging the load device(s).
 
I suppose this is because by default we just assume the grid is going to be 48 KW or 200 amp, I wonder if a slight programming change could make this configurable for instances where someone has a less than 200 amp feed to their home.
 
I suppose this is because by default we just assume the grid is going to be 48 KW or 200 amp, I wonder if a slight programming change could make this configurable for instances where someone has a less than 200 amp feed to their home.
When I say there is no way to limit the load, I mean there is absolutely no possible technical method/way to do it at all via any method except by lowering the voltage and risking damaging something. It is not a programming problem that something lacks the feature to do it. Electrically voltage is the only option, and electrically voltage is a really bad option as it is at significant risk of at least blowing fuses(current will go up on switching power supplies and some other hardware) if you are lucky and destroying random hardware on the load side if you aren't lucky. The only viable way would be if you had a way to disable/turn off specific loads, but with a big single load that won't work. Effectively lowing a voltage is a brown out and stuff sometimes dies and/or blows fuses in brown outs.
 
I suppose this is because by default we just assume the grid is going to be 48 KW or 200 amp, I wonder if a slight programming change could make this configurable for instances where someone has a less than 200 amp feed to their home.
Main breaker on your service panel.
 
I just bought an EG4 18kpv inverter, 24 solar panels and 8 batteries. My intention is to use it to decrease my electricity bill so I am assuming that is grid assist mode- i.e. program to use solar, then batteries and then grid. From what I am reading I am not sure it works like iI think it does. So basically, I am trying to figure out will it automatically change over to use the grid if my load exceeds the inverter capacity. For example if during the summer I have the pool pump running and then there is a load surge on the system because the air conditioning comes on will it shut off the inverter or will it seamlessly transfer the excess load to the grid and both solar and grid would be operating simultaneously?
 

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