EG4 18KPV - What not to do in parallel

[marionw]

This issue does not just apply to EG4 but possibly all parallel capable inverters (clones or otherwise) using RJ45 jacks and the same if not similar firmware.
Does the EG4 18kw use the same firmware as any other parallel capable inverters. Keep in mind that oftentimes the same firmware is used across multiple different inverters with several "constants" programmed into the inverter firmware to specify output power and battery voltage.

 

[marionw]

Everyone is assuming that this is a digital communications cable. That may not be true. It might just pass an analog voltage signal from the master inverter that the "Slave" inverters synchronize with. If that is the case, then there might not be a way to send and receive data through the cable to verify that the cable is correct.

The manual however discusses CAN Addresses for the two dip switches next to each of the parallel RJ45 jacks. I assume based on this that the "hardware" communications is CAN. What gets sent over this CAN bus and in what format is another question.

 

[marionw]

Of course they do.

It's just not the same as that flat cisco cable though. Those are very distinctive. You include a cable like this in your product packaging and people don't think they can just sub in any old cable.

Flat cable as in the picture is generally an RS232/Serial cable and not a 4 twisted pair cat5 cable

 

[SignatureSolarJess]

He brought in @SignatureSolarJess to help out with such things. It looked like he was warming up to do it earlier with his line about 13 years of inverter experience, but then he got called away to do something else.

I'm here to help if still needed!
The manual has been updated, and we trust this issue will not recur. We recommend using the appropriate cables when operating the equipment to ensure optimal performance.

 

[automatikdonn]

I'm here to help if still needed!
The manual has been updated, and we trust this issue will not recur. We recommend using the appropriate cables when operating the equipment to ensure optimal performance.

From a reseller perspective I think SS is good.

EG4 on the other hand still should maybe let us know they are aware of the issue at hand and are working the firmware to ensure this isn't an issue in the future.

A. The units should not enable parallel mode unless the proper comms cable is used
B. Dangerous voltage should never make it out of the inverter to the grid, for any reason. The US grid is 240v at most residential installations. Not 400
C. The grid sell / feedback / tie feature should operate correctly no matter the state of the communication cable.

 

[Brett V]

The original installer is negligent for not thoroughly testing everything before actually switching on the circuit breakers feeding the loads. He should have seen the high voltage and realized something was wrong. This is a bizarre situation that required multiple failures to line up to occur.

 

[automatikdonn]

Everyone is assuming that this is a digital communications cable. That may not be true. It might just pass an analog voltage signal from the master inverter that the "Slave" inverters synchronize with. If that is the case, then there might not be a way to send and receive data through the cable to verify that the cable is correct.

Then how would it know to enable parallel and also how would it know the other inverter is faulted?

 

[automatikdonn]

The original installer is negligent for not thoroughly testing everything before actually switching on the circuit breakers feeding the loads. He should have seen the high voltage and realized something was wrong. This is a bizarre situation that required multiple failures to line up to occur.

I will let @canadianintruder explain what happened before I got there.

The very first test is how this issue was discovered if I understood it correctly.

The outputs were disabled. This all happens on the backfeed side

 

[cs1234]

Everyone is assuming that this is a digital communications cable. That may not be true. It might just pass an analog voltage signal from the master inverter that the "Slave" inverters synchronize with. If that is the case, then there might not be a way to send and receive data through the cable to verify that the cable is correct.

I'm assuming it's not ethernet signals. But surely they aren't passing AC voltage across a standard ethernet cable that might not even be in conduit or anything.

 

[automatikdonn]

Better yet use different style cables with propriety ends not RJ45

Then people would complain that have to buy a "special cable"
*Coughs in victron*

 

[cs1234]

I'm here to help if still needed!
The manual has been updated, and we trust this issue will not recur. We recommend using the appropriate cables when operating the equipment to ensure optimal performance.

I love how professionally you handle the situation compared to your bosses. They made a good decision bringing you on board, they just need to let you do your thing and stay in their lane.

 

[labeeman]

Then people would complain that have to buy a "special cable"
*Coughs in victron*

You are correct but they would not have to buy a house full of appliances.

 

[cs1234]

Flat cable as in the picture is generally an RS232/Serial cable and not a 4 twisted pair cat5 cable

Yes, but for the distances involved here, and the communications protocol / amount of data sent.. a flat cable wouldn't likely make a difference in signal quality. They just wanted to use an ethernet port on the product instead of some other connector. They could probably source hundreds of thousands of these old cisco flat cables really cheap..

 

[cs1234]

You are correct but they would not have to buy a house full of appliances.

They probably won't be anyway.. assuming the installer was insured and they didn't refer him to them or anything.

 

[Will Prowse]

Better yet use different style cables with propriety ends not RJ45

That would be logical

 

[Brucey]

Then people would complain that have to buy a "special cable"
*Coughs in victron*

While they do sell their own, a standard cat 5 is sufficient to connect ve.bus and ve.can devices.

 

[ksmithaz1]

Better yet use different style cables with propriety ends not RJ45

One on hand, I agree with this. On the other, I think if it will handle the signaling just fix the port so it can tell if someone was stoopid. Last thing you need is another proprietary connector.

 

[42OhmsPA]

I just looked at a brand new in the box 18K and here is what you get.

The battery communication cable is orange and clearly marked as to which end goes where, it is NOT a standard network cable.
You get a parallel cable which is gray and clearly marked as the parallel cable and also marked as 568b, it is a perfectly normal standard Network cat5e cable.
You also get a paper manual, mine happens to be version 2.0.2.
Page 28 gives explicit instructions for commissioning a parallel configuration.
Page 35 gives a wiring diagram for two inverters in parallel. Again it never shows connections only to grid and nothing to the load, the house is always connected to the load terminals. Page 36 shows you the settings that should be set.
Page 46 clearly states that you connect the LOAD terminals together for paralleling, not grid as per the original poster of this situation.
Page 51 details setting up a parallel system again.
Page 64 tells you how to look through the event log to see if there have been any errors.
Page 86 shows you how to look at the error log on the inverter.

I do not know why we are defending the installer, they blatantly used the wrong cable, did not read the instructions, did not wire the unit up properly and blowed things up.

@automatikdonn can you verify no other wiring was changed besides the parallel cable with RJ45 ends?

Reading @Quattrohead 's post it seems AC wiring was/is also incorrect.

 

[ricardocello]

While they do sell their own, a standard cat 5 is sufficient to connect ve.bus and ve.can devices.

That's what I use. And they aren't crossover cables!

 

[cs1234]

That's what I use. And they aren't crossover cables!

Unless I'm mistaken, EG4 isn't using a crossover cable either. The issue is some bozo used one that he had laying around in his car for 30 years.

 

[ricardocello]

Unless I'm mistaken, EG4 isn't using a crossover cable either. The issue is some bozo used one that he had laying around in his car for 30 years.

Sorry, wasn't implying that. Added winking smiley above.

 

[Brucey]

That's what I use. And they aren't crossover cables!

Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine such an issue could occur due to a wrong comms cable...I don't feel so bad now "huffs Victron Ethernet cable bag"

 

[sunshine_eggo]

While they do sell their own, a standard cat 5 is sufficient to connect ve.bus and ve.can devices.

and they still have the sense to cover their asses by saying only use approved UTP cables...

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Unless I'm mistaken, EG4 isn't using a crossover cable either. The issue is some bozo used one that he had laying around in his car for 30 years.

Or the owner supplied it...

 

[ricardocello]

Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine such an issue could occur due to a wrong comms cable...I don't feel so bad now "huffs Victron Ethernet cable bag"

Just to keep beating this thread to death, the crossover cable caused the 18kpv device(s) to behave in a manner that no one could predict.

What we haven't been told (and probably won't be told), is why the device is designed to do that at all, and what the pinout on those connectors are.