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EG4 6000ex bonding question

Hyde5477

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Does the eg4 6000ex have an internal neutral/ground bonding relay to bond and unbond depepend on you being in bypass mode or inverter mode? Signature solar told me it does, but the manual does not say anything about it.
 
but the manual does not say anything about it.
The manuals for all of EG4s inverters lack any information about the bonding they do or do not do.

Working with several people, we measured various aspects of the 6000EX and came up with this as a model for it:

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However, It turns out that EG4 started shipping all of their inverters without the bonding screw. If the units we measured had a place for a bonding screw but the screw was not there, it would have come up like this and we would not have known it.

However, I am pretty sure the unit uses the output transformer as an auto-transformer. If I am correct about that, then to be NEC compliant the neutral output would need to be tied back to the neutral input when the grid is on the input and the unit is in passthrough mode. At that point, the system is operating in a common-neutral mode and should not be doing any dynamic bonding.
 
When did this start
I don't have an exact date, but relatively recently.

One post in a different thread about the 6500 said this:
I just received my replacement units a few days ago and I can confirm both units had the bonding screws removed. I had earlier units with the manufactured sticker showing 07/22 and those had the bonding screws. The newer units I have show 10/22 and those have them removed.

does this apply to the 6500EX as well?
In a dialog with EG4 tech support, they said it applies to all models.


The architecture of the low-frequency split-phase 6000 is very different than the high-frequency single phase 6500 and I am not even sure it had the screws. If you have a 6000, can you open it up and let us know if there is a place for a bonding screw and if so whether your unit has the screw in place?
 
BTW: The thread where this was discussed is:
 
BTW: The thread where this was discussed is:
Thanks. I got my 6500 at the end of October. It's not hooked up yet. It's got an August 2022 date label on the side. So, does that mean it has the screw? I guess I can verify it by checking continuity between ground and output neutral while it's off, which should be open N to G? Actually that would verify nothing. Guess I'll need to open it up.

I'm assuming output N and G will bond inside the unit only when it's in inverting mode and not bypass (assuming it has the bonding screw)?

When I get this hooked up, this will be the only inverter, hooked up to AC input, and its output run to a critical loads panel. I asked you in the big 6500 thread if I should move the neutrals along with hots to the new crit loads panel, and you did. I'm assuming that would still be too the case (again, if it has the bonding screw)?

Wow, this is so confusing and maddening that it's not clearly laid out in documentation. Hopefully the upcoming video will clarify things.
 
I got my 6500 at the end of October. It's not hooked up yet. It's got an August 2022 date label on the side. So, does that mean it has the screw?
That is hard to say. We know the 7/22 units had the screw, and the 10/22 did not. 8/22 places it in the unknown zone.
I guess I can verify it by checking continuity between ground and output neutral while it's off, which should be open N to G? Actually that would verify nothing. Guess I'll need to open it up.
Actually, with the unit off and everything un-plugged, if there is continuity between neutral and ground, the screw is almost certainly there. If there is no continuity, the screw is almost certainly not there.
Wow, this is so confusing and maddening that it's not clearly laid out in documentation.
It is bad enough not to document how the product works..... but to change something as fundamental as this and not broadly notify people is just criminal.
Hopefully the upcoming video will clarify things.
I have very high hopes it will clarify things, but very low expectations that it will clarify things.

The only possibility I see that the video will make anything better is that when they try to explain things for the video they realize how screwed up their thinking is and they actually change course. If all of my communications with them over the past 9 months indicate anything, there is a better chance I will win the lottery (and I don't buy lottery tickets)
 
@Subdood If you figure out whether the 8/22 units have the screws, please let us know. It will help us narrow down what manufacturing dates have or don't have the screws.
 
@Subdood If you figure out whether the 8/22 units have the screws, please let us know. It will help us narrow down what manufacturing dates have or don't have the screws.
Okay I'll check it out when I get a chance. Do you or anyone have a pic of where it is?

Also, if the screw is there, do I still need to switch my neutrals along with the hots when I transfer my critical loads to a separate panel? You had recommended that in a post earlier this year in the long 6500 thread. Just want to verify. Thanks.
 
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Okay I'll check it out when I get a chance. Do you or anyone have a pic of where it is?

Also, if the screw is there, do I still need to switch my neutrals along with the hots when I transfer my critical loads to a separate panel? You had recommended that in a post earlier this year in the long 6500 thread. Just want to verify. Thanks.
Sig Solar just let us know that the screws were removed from the 6500s with manufacture dates of 10/22 and beyond.
 
Ok, since it appears that the N-G bond issue hasn't changed in my case, I'm proceeding with my original plan of moving the neutrals with the hots to my new panel.
 
I bought mine 11/10/22 so I guess its bonded. My main panel has no continuity between neutral and ground unless the inverter output is connected so that seems to be proof. I am experiencing extreme weirdness when connecting a generator though and I believe it has something to do with the way the EG4 6500 deals with the bonding when connected to AC. I have no proof yet. I called SS to try to learn how this works in different modes but all I got was a request for a 100 photos.
 
I bought mine 11/10/22 so I guess its bonded. My main panel has no continuity between neutral and ground unless the inverter output is connected so that seems to be proof. I am experiencing extreme weirdness when connecting a generator though and I believe it has something to do with the way the EG4 6500 deals with the bonding when connected to AC. I have no proof yet. I called SS to try to learn how this works in different modes but all I got was a request for a 100 photos.

How is the generator connected to the inverter? Direct or through a transfer switch?

If your generator is not bonded and is tied to the inverter input, then the AC output will not be bonded in pass-through mode.
 
Its connected direct with a 30a breaker in-between. No bonding in my panel. I initially tried it with the generator still bonded. My intention was to have the generator only charge the batteries when voltage drops below setting 12. I'm not sure if this is even possible. I did a lot of back and forth on setting 01. As it is now the generator will kick on and charge the batteries but only with the inverter in OFF ( yes it will charge batt when inverter is off) Turn the inverter on an charging stops. I'm thinking maybe that's due to the bonding kicking in when the inverter comes on. However in various configurations I have had. This is NOT always the case.
 
Its connected direct with a 30a breaker in-between.
When on the generator, measure the output between Neutral and ground. You will almost certainly find it is somewhat high.

What kind of generator do you have, Inverter-generators produce a reasonably clean output but direct generators often creat a very noisy output.
 
I'm running a Generac XT8500 EFI. Yes, I'm aware that inverter generators are better but I was having a hard time finding a larger auto start inverter generator that fit the bill. In an earlier conversation with SS they told me I needed a generator 2x more that my power needs. I was able to successfully charge batteries at 60a DC + another 5a or so from solar for hours so I'm not sure if the newer non inverting generators are as 'dirty' as some fear. This was my reasoning for wanting the inverter to charge the batteries and the batteries always supply the loads. I would prefer NO bypass mode. I know the obvious answer is install a standalone battery charger but one that can do 60a costs about 2x what the EG4 cost lol.. Maybe that's a clue to my issue :)
 
Here is a New video in reference to NGB.
Well, screw it I'm getting a couple of those I guess. Hope their "software fix" is above board and safe for the hardware.
 
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