EG4 6000XP and EG4 Chargeverter

[rogeri]

Hi:

Does the EG4 6000XP contain the equivalent built-in charger to the Chargeverter? That is, do I need to buy the Chargeverter if I have have the EG4 6000XP?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

No. It's better.

Probably not.

The chargeverter was developed due to the piss poor chargers in the voltronics-like older line of EG4 inverter chargers - notoriously intolerant of even mildly dirty generator power.

The 6000XP is made by LuxPower and is more tolerant of dirty generator power.

 

[rogeri]

No. It's better.

Probably not.

The chargeverter was developed due to the piss poor chargers in the voltronics-like older line of EG4 inverter chargers - notoriously intolerant of even mildly dirty generator power.

The 6000XP is made by LuxPower and is more tolerant of dirty generator power.

Thanks. My generator is pretty old, and I know it's pretty dirty.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Thanks. My generator is pretty old, and I know it's pretty dirty.

Old generators can be better than new. Depends more on initial quality and state of tune than anything else. If it's an inverter generator, it's going to be better than any non-inverter generator.

Simply try it. If it doesn't work, decide if replacing the generator makes more or less sense than adding a Chargeverter.

 

[PCbyTC]

I have 2 6000XP's, 12K of solar, a chargeverter, 625KWH of basic Lifepo4 batts, and an older 12K Genset (super reliable, but non-inverter)
I learned after Hurricane Helene (7 days no power in SC) how bad you need a GOOD Inverter generator with the 6000XP, each one only has 30A of charger from A/C, and it really wants to put the house load on the generator, well it kept tripping 1 leg of my generator, which made the 6000 go absolutely nuts! I then decided to buy the Chargeverter, Now in a power-down scenario, I only run the gen long enough to pound 100A into my batts to full, the inverters know nothing and keep humming along happily. I'm doing other experiments with my system these days, trying to get every last KW out of solar and as little grid use as possible, As a sidenote, I did discover the Chargeverter, at idle, draws 250W on the AC input, just an FYI.

In the end, the biggest difference is 2 6000XP only give you 60A charger, The CV gives you 100A and will take the dirtiest 240VAC source you can find.

 

[wpns]

I have 2 6000XP's, 12K of solar, a chargeverter, 625KWH of basic Lifepo4 batts

Umm, 625 KWHR?

Now in a power-down scenario, I only run the gen long enough to pound 100A into my batts to full

Which would take 5 days?

I did discover the Chargeverter, at idle, draws 250W on the AC input, just an FYI.

That can’t be right, how did you determine that? I can measure it tomorrow but I’m guessing you’re off by two orders of magnitude.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

and it really wants to put the house load on the generator

That's how all inverter/chargers work. They can only do one at a time, so when charging from AC, they're passing it through to loads. That's why they recommend a generator 1.3-1.5X the size of your inverter, so you can meet rated loads while charging.

 

[PCbyTC]

That's how all inverter/chargers work. They can only do one at a time, so when charging from AC, they're passing it through to loads. That's why they recommend a generator 1.3-1.5X the size of your inverter, so you can meet rated loads while charging.

Umm, 625 KWHR?

Which would take 5 days?

That can’t be right, how did you determine that? I can measure it tomorrow but I’m guessing you’re off by two orders of magnitude.

Ugh, I needed sleep last night, 625AH is what I meant (or 30kwh).It's a mixed-up pile of 6 100AH Chins 48V and 1 oddball 25AH I had bought for a UPS and threw in the stack instead. (Hence the relatively weird number)

 

[wpns]

Ugh, I needed sleep last night, 625AH is what I meant (or 30kwh).It's a mixed-up pile of 6 100AH Chins 48V and 1 oddball 25AH I had bought for a UPS and threw in the stack instead. (Hence the relatively weird number)

Fair enough, that makes more sense.

And how did you measure the input power?

 

[PCbyTC]

Umm, 625 KWHR?

Which would take 5 days?

That can’t be right, how did you determine that? I can measure it tomorrow but I’m guessing you’re off by two orders of magnitude.

As I mentioned earlier, I needed sleep last night... Anyways, 625AH of Batt (30Kwh), Obviously changes the math to about 6+ hours flat to full charge (assuming no other loads) and I use an eyedro on my mains to monitor grid use, that 250w is what I see in the monitor when I intentionally flipped the system to solar and had the CV as the only item on grid, I didn't believe it myself so I unplugged it, plugged back in. Sure enough, 250w is the idle draw on the CV. (I'm rounding up, eyedro reported .24kw)

 

[PCbyTC]

That's how all inverter/chargers work. They can only do one at a time, so when charging from AC, they're passing it through to loads. That's why they recommend a generator 1.3-1.5X the size of your inverter, so you can meet rated loads while charging.

I've learned that, as I was dealing with the Helene outage it did cause me a bit of frustration. The whole house ran fantastic on solar & battery all day, we didn't have to be careful, dryer, stove, A/C, it didn't matter, the EG4's ate it up without issue, all I really wanted from the Generator was to top-up the batteries before I went to bed, Solar took over reliably every morning (It was so unusual how clear and bright was the weather after that hurricane, ideal solar weather) I didn't have the chargeverter then (heck I didn't even have cell phone service to order one) and it just provided an extra challenge when I needed to charge (6-10pm I had to train the family to not turn on high-current stuff like the stove) as the gen was putting 60A into the batteries, stupidly designed generator has a fatal flaw of independent breakers on each leg, one would easily pop one and the whole system would just go crazy. The Chargeverter has obviously fixed my issues, which admittedly stem from a poorly designed generator.

 

[wpns]

Not sure how accurate an eyedro is, but my Acrel measured about 53W (the red line) for _TWO_ CVGC boxes plus their grid relays, so maybe your eyedro doesn't take power factor into account (properly)? I was seeing a PF of about 0.145 with the CV output breakers off.

I had forgotten that the CV run their fans when they aren't loaded, so you (and I) were only off by one order of magnitude.

 

[PCbyTC]

Not sure how accurate an eyedro is, but my Acrel measured about 53W (the red line) for _TWO_ CVGC boxes plus their grid relays, so maybe your eyedro doesn't take power factor into account (properly)? I was seeing a PF of about 0.145 with the CV output breakers off.
View attachment 259663
I had forgotten that the CV run their fans when they aren't loaded, so you (and I) were only off by one order of magnitude.

Possibly? The eyedro is the usual inductive clamp style, I question it's accuracy below 1kw. I have some time later today to dicker around, I'll see what the fluke says.

 

[wpns]

Possibly? The eyedro is the usual inductive clamp style, I question it's accuracy below 1kw. I have some time later today to dicker around, I'll see what the fluke says.

Remember that the Fluke may be measuring current and voltage, but unless you are accounting for power factor, you'll get a number about an order of magnitude high.

 

[Pmagee]

I have 2 6000XP's, 12K of solar, a chargeverter, 625KWH of basic Lifepo4 batts, and an older 12K Genset (super reliable, but non-inverter)
I learned after Hurricane Helene (7 days no power in SC) how bad you need a GOOD Inverter generator with the 6000XP, each one only has 30A of charger from A/C, and it really wants to put the house load on the generator, well it kept tripping 1 leg of my generator, which made the 6000 go absolutely nuts! I then decided to buy the Chargeverter, Now in a power-down scenario, I only run the gen long enough to pound 100A into my batts to full, the inverters know nothing and keep humming along happily. I'm doing other experiments with my system these days, trying to get every last KW out of solar and as little grid use as possible, As a sidenote, I did discover the Chargeverter, at idle, draws 250W on the AC input, just an FYI.

In the end, the biggest difference is 2 6000XP only give you 60A charger, The CV gives you 100A and will take the dirtiest 240VAC source you can find.

Hi, I have 2 6000xp's also.... how did you connect your chargeverter to your batts? .... or maybe better question is where in the batt connections does the chargeverter connect?.... thanks... Paulie

 

[niallp]

Reading this thread it seems not possible for an EG4 6000XP to charge batteries (from grid or generator) while providing power from inverter ? I noticed the 'Generator boost' option which seems to offer supplementing a weak generator with inverter power but I guess that is really the opposite (inverter would have to slave to the generator frequency/voltage).

I was hoping to configure the system so a generator could charge the batteries while the inverter was supplying loads but sounds like that may require a separate charger (eg Chargeverter) ?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Reading this thread it seems not possible for an EG4 6000XP to charge batteries (from grid or generator) while providing power from inverter ? I noticed the 'Generator boost' option which seems to offer supplementing a weak generator with inverter power but I guess that is really the opposite (inverter would have to slave to the generator frequency/voltage).

That's different and a specific function. Not all inverters have this function, AND when it's boosting, there is no charging.

I was hoping to configure the system so a generator could charge the batteries while the inverter was supplying loads but sounds like that may require a separate charger (eg Chargeverter) ?

Nope. Inverter/chargers use the same circuitry for invertering and charging - just in different directions, so you can't do both at the same time.

Why do you want this? What difference does it make? Do you need to spend another $400+ on another charger when you already have one?

The only sensible reason to want this is to use an underpowered generator, but with generator boost, who cares?

Okay, well, the second sensible reason is if you have EXTREMELY sensitive equipment that doesn't handle the switchover between generator and inverting.

Victron has PowerAssist, which is a more robust version of gen boost, and it's what allows me to charge with my 10kVA inverter with only a 4100W generator.

 

[niallp]

Okay, well, the second sensible reason is if you have EXTREMELY sensitive equipment that doesn't handle the switchover between generator and inverting.

In my case it is a sufficiently crappy generator that has poor regulation. Whether to put the $ into a CV or a better generator will be what I need to figure out.