EG4 6000XP instead of Victron? Thoughts Welcome.

[JJJJ]

When I bought my PC, it was one of the first ones on the market. It was overpriced, had a hand written serial number on the motherboard, and broke in the first week of operation. After the video board was replaced it ran fine, considering computers at that time really couldn't do much.

Being the first kid on the block to own one was fun when I had money to burn so to speak. Now when I need something I check with others who have more experience than me.

When I go to purchase a car, I talk with my mechanic, not the sales person. He will give me a detailed account of the pluses and minuses of a make and model as well at the repair history and potential problems

I have followed the same approach with solar. I respect all views but listen very carefully to those who have been using a certain technology for a while and who can give a detailed report on what to expect.

My purchases have been measured and carefully budgeted over time. We all have limits with our spending potential. IF I were to consider a different unit, I would be tempted to place it in a non critical application and use the "heck" out of it to see how it held up. If it proved fruitful then my choices for future purchases would be expanded. While I am a Victron member, there are other long established systems which have withstood the test of time. Others have undergone a lot of change in the past 3 years. Time will tell how long they remain on the market and whether or not they become the future standard.

 

[JJJJ]

My mechanic can work on anything but specializes in two manufacturers in particular. One of the reasons I really trust his judgement.

One concern when making repairs are the challenges which occur in the supply chain. Sometimes this goes better than others. Sometimes, with an older model car the parts can no longer be found.

One potential concern with rapidly changing technology is the potential challenges with parts replacement should a repair be needed down the line. If the model you purchased is outdated due to multiple version changes then the chances of finding a replacement board or other component decreases with passing time. Not impossible perhaps, but the number of companies stocking components for outdated technology will likely decrease with passing time. On the other hand, models that have remained solid for a number of years have a likely greater chance of finding replacement parts. Again, no guarantees but a potential situation.

The argument could be made that 3 to 5 years is a "lifetime" and replacement warranted. I can see that view. However, given possible financial challenges and changes in the next 3 to 5 years in the world, I would prefer to put my money on systems that have long track records for reliable service. Again, an individual choice. Also one of the benefits of buying a "spare" if a less expensive model is purchased, just in case.

Having said that, anything can happen with any technology. One of the reasons I chose the same manufacturer for my portable build. There are benefits to redundancy regardless of approach.

 

[Madcodger]

I would prefer to put my money on systems that have long track records for reliable service. Again, an individual choice. Also one of the benefits of buying a "spare" if a less expensive model is purchased, just in case.

This is a very solid argument. Unfortunately, we've seen well-established manufacturers bite the dust in recent years. I think the best one can do is make an informed, educated decision. I have Victron in my little office, but EG4 (built by Luxpower) in our home. I'm happy with both. Would I buy a cheaper unit/brand? Probably not. But it's all a balance between value and track record.

 

[Brucey]

The Schenieder 6848 is compelling at $1200, likely to last 20 years while eg4 James has stated 6000xp design life is 5 years, versus 10 years for the 12/18kpvs.

 

[Quattrohead]

The Schenieder 6848 is compelling at $1200, likely to last 20 years while eg4 James has stated 6000xp design life is 5 years, versus 10 years for the 12/18kpvs.

Do we know that the Schneider will last 20 years, do we know that the 6000 XP will not last more than 5 years 1 day or that the 12/18kpv will not last 10 years ?

 

[Quattrohead]

I know the answer to the question, but what did the OP end up settling on for inverters?

 

[Brucey]

Do we know that the Schneider will last 20 years, do we know that the 6000 XP will not last more than 5 years 1 day or that the 12/18kpv will not last 10 years ?

The xw+ was released back in 2014, xwpro in 2020. So that design is already running for 10 years.

Schneider Electric launches the next generation of the highly successful XW hybrid inverter

/PRNewswire-iReach/ -- Schneider Electric Solar Business, a global leader in solutions for solar power conversion chain, is proud to introduce the next...

www.prnewswire.com

I'll just defer to James thoughts on design life median:

 

[JAS]

The Schenieder 6848 is compelling at $1200, likely to last 20 years while eg4 James has stated 6000xp design life is 5 years, versus 10 years for the 12/18kpvs.

Wow, I'm glad you brought that to my attention! That is a good price. Plus the surge is awesome and should handle my deep well pump with no problem!

I've been contemplating an upgrade to a 48v system at my cabin and was leaning towards a Samlex EVO 4248. But, the Schneider is even more power at a better price!

I debated the 6000XP (and getting a 2nd if necessary to run the well pump). But, the specs say the operating temps are above freezing... That won't work for me...

 

[Brucey]

Wow, I'm glad you brought that to my attention! That is a good price. Plus the surge is awesome and should handle my deep well pump with no problem!

I've been contemplating an upgrade to a 48v system at my cabin and was leaning towards a Samlex EVO 4248. But, the Schneider is even more power at a better price!

I debated the 6000XP (and getting a 2nd if necessary to run the well pump). But, the specs say the operating temps are above freezing... That won't work for me...

Just be aware the xw pro 6848 is being discontinued, that's why it's selling for a third of its regular pricing. And you'll need separate SCCs it's just an inverter/charger.

Should read this prior to deciding:

E

Thread 'Schneider XW Pro - End of Sale???'

Jun 3, 2024

I just called Signature Solar wanting to put together a three-phase 6848 order and called because some of the pieces were not showing as individually available (i.e. they sell the 600/100 SCC as part of a bundle but not as a standalone orderable item), and the rep told me that Schneider is discontinuing the XW Pro.

This is quite a shock to me and I may shift to Victron if this is ultimately true - but before I look into pricing out a Quattro 10k 3-phase system, has anyone else heard this end-of-sale messaging from vendors or Schneider? I don't see anything online about this and I...

• EnderWiggin
• Replies: 616
• Forum: DIY Solar General Discussion

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[Quattrohead]

The xw+ was released back in 2014, xwpro in 2020. So that design is already running for 10 years.

So that's 11 years for a product that is no longer sold and 5 years for the product that is being sold off on the cheap end of production.
I am not seeing a confirmed 20 years or 5 years here.

 

[Brucey]

So that's 11 years for a product that is no longer sold and 5 years for the product that is being sold off on the cheap end of production.
I am not seeing a confirmed 20 years or 5 years here.

If you want to tell yourself that a 6000xp and a xw pro 6848 have the same design lifecycle then feel free....

 

[Breeze]

Some POCOs are happy with UL or manufacturer letter speaking to the programming on the hybrid.

The 18kpv does have an off-grid mode you can configure.

It also has some hard distributor locks for export kW-AC. Not sure about hybrid vs off-grid mode.

Wisconsin Public Service (WPS) requires an interconnection agreement if an inverter is not fully off-grid, which adds substantial expense to a project.

 

[Will Prowse]

These are electronics device guys, depending on loads and environment will determine how long the fets and everything else will last. The "service life" is entirely relative. They won't all just stop working at 5 or 20 or 30 years.

I think the first thing that will fail in LF and HF inverters is the capacitors, the electrolyte drying out. But that's easy to swap out.

 

[Brucey]

These are electronics device guys, depending on loads and environment will determine how long the fets and everything else will last. The "service life" is entirely relative. They won't all just stop working at 5 or 20 or 30 years.

I think the first thing that will fail in LF and HF inverters is the capacitors, the electrolyte drying out. But that's easy to swap out.

Yes the design life is a median you'll have a few early failures and some that go beyond expectations.

You must be better at soldering than me

 

[Will Prowse]

Yes the design life is a median you'll have a few early failures and some that go beyond expectations.

You must be better at soldering than me

View attachment 271764

Oh yikes. Haha. Easy to see which cap went bad though

 

[JAS]

Just be aware the xw pro 6848 is being discontinued

Hmm... And I would still need/want the PDP and the Insight Software to change configuration...

back to the drawing board

 

[Will Prowse]

I'm amazed how cheap these devices have become in the last five years, especially considering cost of copper and overall inflation. By the time my inverters fail, I'll buy whatever new tech comes out. Imagine inverters in 15 years from now! I can't wait

 

[JAS]

If the 6000XP would come down in price to under $1K (including tax/shipping), I might chance it in my shed with the low temps during the winter...

 

[Quattrohead]

I debated the 6000XP (and getting a 2nd if necessary to run the well pump). But, the specs say the operating temps are above freezing... That won't work for me...

I really do not think this is a concern, the inverter will naturally dry/warm itself with its 50 watts of idle consumption even if it's not being used.

 

[JAS]

I really do not think this is a concern, the inverter will naturally dry/warm itself with its 50 watts of idle consumption even if it's not being used.

I agree if it were running full time. However, I shut everything down when I'm not at the cabin. For instance... I haven't been there for almost 3 months (other than a quick stop on my way thru the area to check on things). If I were to go there this weekend (low temps around 0F), I'd be powering it up cold.... I would be concerned with condensation forming and shorting things out.

 

[ksmithaz1]

Some POCOs are happy with UL or manufacturer letter speaking to the programming on the hybrid.

The 18kpv does have an off-grid mode you can configure.

It also has some hard distributor locks for export kW-AC. Not sure about hybrid vs off-grid mode.

If you cannot grid tie the 18Kpv is dumb. The 12000XP is basically the exact same, slightly different PV input config, only 2x26A MPPT instead of 2x15 and 1x25, both are 50A likely exactly the same inverter hardware, and the 12000XP is 1/2 the price.

 

[lexio]

And I would prefer a single cable and can bus all around. Having multiple communication protocols is unnecessary. Victron needs to combine modules and build some all in ones. And get them listed so you can actually use them legally.

Victron Energy PMP482507010 EasySolar-II GX Solar Charge Controller 48/5000/70-50 MPPT 250/100 - EasySolar - Inverter - ESS | NKON

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eu.nkon.nl

i need to say that i am happy to live in Europe and Victron is not that more expensive then a xp6000

 

[ksmithaz1]

Wow, I'm glad you brought that to my attention! That is a good price. Plus the surge is awesome and should handle my deep well pump with no problem!

I've been contemplating an upgrade to a 48v system at my cabin and was leaning towards a Samlex EVO 4248. But, the Schneider is even more power at a better price!

I debated the 6000XP (and getting a 2nd if necessary to run the well pump). But, the specs say the operating temps are above freezing... That won't work for me...

Where are you putting your inverter that the ambient air around it will be below freezing while operating? It is not designed to run outdoors in the first place. If you stuff it in a small outbuilding it would be really simple to warm it slightly, the unit itself would generate enough waste heat to probably keep it above 0C down into the -5C range. If you are running it inside it's moot.

 

[ksmithaz1]

Oh yikes. Haha. Easy to see which cap went bad though

Generally a single cap will not fail the unit. Several will. Once one cap fails de-solder and replace ALL of them. Get a fat hot iron, and pop them all out, then blow out the holes with heat and air. Caps generally don't require a lot of precision to replace if they use plated thru holes. During the capacitor fiasco on all the motherboards, I swapped out caps on hundreds of boards. Pretty easy. Match capacitance, voltage can be higher on DC caps, generally what we are talking about.

You could swap that array of caps out in an hour or so if you have the right iron. If a significant percentage of the caps have failed, the rest are not far behind.

 

[ksmithaz1]

I agree if it were running full time. However, I shut everything down when I'm not at the cabin. For instance... I haven't been there for almost 3 months (other than a quick stop on my way thru the area to check on things). If I were to go there this weekend (low temps around 0F), I'd be powering it up cold.... I would be concerned with condensation forming and shorting things out.

No, you would go in the shed, turn on a small portable kerosene heater for 15 minutes or so, and then turn it on. Condensation is going to be a problem with any unit, all the specs are going to say Low-High "non-condensing". Your batteries are going to be the problem at 0F, not the inverter.