EG4 6000XP lights flickering

[DanCrow]

Called signature solar tech support. They did a pretty good job and had me tighten up bonding screw in my main panel, also had me disconnect ground wire between the 6000xp and my eg4LL batteries, reviewed all my settings and most importantly suggested i shut down and restart the system. Flicker gone. I simulated a power outage, shut off the 200 amp breaker in my main panel, then restarted 6000xp system... result zero flicker.
I just assumed because of the ups feature i didn't need to do that but it cleared the problem.

 

[doox00]

Called signature solar tech support. They did a pretty good job and had me tighten up bonding screw in my main panel, also had me disconnect ground wire between the 6000xp and my eg4LL batteries, reviewed all my settings and most importantly suggested i shut down and restart the system. Flicker gone. I simulated a power outage, shut off the 200 amp breaker in my main panel, then restarted 6000xp system... result zero flicker.
I just assumed because of the ups feature i didn't need to do that but it cleared the problem.

What do you mean exactly by tighten up bonding screw in main panel? You referring to where your earth and neutral are bonded at?

 

[AshleyL]

Called signature solar tech support. They did a pretty good job and had me tighten up bonding screw in my main panel, also had me disconnect ground wire between the 6000xp and my eg4LL batteries, reviewed all my settings and most importantly suggested i shut down and restart the system. Flicker gone. I simulated a power outage, shut off the 200 amp breaker in my main panel, then restarted 6000xp system... result zero flicker.
I just assumed because of the ups feature i didn't need to do that but it cleared the problem.

Wait untill your electric motor loads (refrigerator, air conditioners or pump) start their cycles again...........
Similar to Growatt SPF

Reason = ac waveform distortion caused by motor/compressor.

 

[Quattrohead]

I have seen a few issues here where inverters get into a bit of a funk after a firmware update and need a second reboot to make them behave properly again.

 

[ChrisG]

Check if the neutral goes through a relay in the inverter. If the L1, L2, an N relay are signaled to switch at the same time, you can get unbalanced voltages if the neutral relay is the slowest to switch. The fix is to run a neutral jumper wire from the grid port to the load port. Why would they put a relay on the neutral? I don't know.

@WrenchLight these inverters have a common neutral architecture (single neutral bar for all incoming and outgoing neutral). I do know what your talking about though, I have a Growatt SPF3000 where I jump the neutrals on input and output.

 

[ElkPicture]

What do you mean exactly by tighten up bonding screw in main panel? You referring to where your earth and neutral are bonded at?

Yeah, thats what he meant... some electrical panels have a "bonding screw" that creates your ground neutral bond in your house. In the US the Ground Neutral bond is usually in the point of disconnect as power comes into your house.

 

[ElkPicture]

It seems to be when on battery power it flickers and not when the grid has kicked in. All 3 inverters are back on and so far only seems to be happening when on battery.

So I wonder if its being caused my that single inverter? Possible it's having a hard time paralleling with the other inverters.... or it's on a different firmware version?

 

[doox00]

I can't pin point where the flickering is originating from, it definitely is only happening when powering off the batteries though, like right now, the flicker is driving me nuts in my shop, (again, it is not just these lights, does it with most led lights in the house and pole barn and I have no dimmers anywhere). Is there a device I can install at the breaker to help prevent this, like a capacitor or ups battery type thing or something so the circuits that run the lights can just run through that all the time? Other than this flicker I am having no issues with anything else.

I checked in each inverter and the neutral wire that goes from the inverter internals to the neutral bar is tight (I also snugged them up even more but they were tight).

Should I try bonding the neutral and ground in the inverters (the setting on the inverters) even though I have grid running through them and have a bond already prior to the inverters?

I also doubled checked all the panels after the inverters (the house panel and sub panel and pole barn panel) and the neutral and ground are not bonded.

 

[ChrisG]

Something to try. Carefully wire up an outlet to a dedicated breaker in the panel the inverters feed. Hook a lamp to it with an existing flickering bulb. Shut off all other breakers but the feed to the panel from inverters and the temp outlet.

If all good move the breaker to another stab to try the other leg. Let us know the results. Be careful and hook up as any other branch circuit on N and G for that panel (assume no G/N bond as it’s coming from main panel).

 

[TM48]

Should I try bonding the neutral and ground in the inverters (

No. If you have a good ground/neutral bond in your main load center do not bond anywhere else.

 

[Vesper]

Hey all, I have a new solar system I put in, I am running 3 EG4 6000XP's in parallel. I have the grid connected, 24k watts of solar panels and over 100 kwh of storage. I am running the latest firmware.

The system has been up for a few months and things were fine until the past few weeks, I am getting intermittent flickering of lights throughout the house and my pole barn. Whether I am running on purely battery, solar or when the grid kicks in it happens, so it is not just from one source. Ideas what the issue may be?

Thanks!

The LED light itself is particularly sensitive to voltage fluctuations, and if the system output voltage changes slightly, it is easy to cause flashing. You can use a multimeter or voltage monitor to see if the voltage is unstable, even a small fluctuation may upset the lamp. When there is any high-power equipment in the home or pole warehouse, such as refrigerators and air conditioners, it may cause an instantaneous voltage drop. This may not matter for ordinary light bulbs, but LED lights are particularly prone to flickering because of this instantaneous change.
This kind of problem is not big, but it is also very troublesome, hope you can solve it as soon as possible!

 

[doox00]

I still can't figure this issue out.. it is random too, so something running somewhere I think is the cause but who knows what. I do have 7 Senville Aura mini splits (4 9ks, 2 12ks, and 1 18k) throughout the house, pole barn and solar shed, does my heating and cooling for everything, They are inverter style mini splits (if that matters), the flickering is not constant, comes and goes and only on led lights (all different kinds in the pole barn and the house). I have determined it is only when powered from battery/solar.

I asked signature solar about it, their tech support told me it is probably a ground somewhere, to check the ground on the panels and in all the breaker panels. I had previously already checked all the panels for the neutrals, they are all tight and separated from the ground. I checked the neutrals in the inverters as well. All the panels in the house, pole barn and solar shed are new as well, it was all redone when I did the solar install this past summer/fall. I get no flicker when there is no sun and the batteries are dead and the inverter switches to grid power.

 

[AshleyL]

I still can't figure this issue out.. it is random too, so something running somewhere I think is the cause but who knows what. I do have 7 Senville Aura mini splits (4 9ks, 2 12ks, and 1 18k) throughout the house, pole barn and solar shed, does my heating and cooling for everything, They are inverter style mini splits (if that matters), the flickering is not constant, comes and goes and only on led lights (all different kinds in the pole barn and the house). I have determined it is only when powered from battery/solar.

I asked signature solar about it, their tech support told me it is probably a ground somewhere, to check the ground on the panels and in all the breaker panels. I had previously already checked all the panels for the neutrals, they are all tight and separated from the ground. I checked the neutrals in the inverters as well. All the panels in the house, pole barn and solar shed are new as well, it was all redone when I did the solar install this past summer/fall. I get no flicker when there is no sun and the batteries are dead and the inverter switches to grid power.

Beating the dead horse.......
Buy something like this and plug it at your inverter style mini split.

Then switch to Power Factor reading mode.
Turn on one of your inverter style mini split air conditioner and let it cool down to the specified temp. (If you want to be quick, set high temperature like 28C something or somewhere 2C lower than your room temp)
Pay attention to the power factor reading.
When the mini split just been turned on, the power factor will be close to 1 since it is pulling max power.
Whenever the mini split compressor starts to slow down when the set room temperature has been reached, pay close attention to the power factor. It will be around 0.5 - 0.6.
Ta-daaa, enjoy your LED light bulb flickering. When operating SBU (solar+battery) mode, the flickering will start when you have any PWM devices such as inverter style mini split air conditioner starts to slow down its compressor, it will cause the power factor to drop. Hence, the flickering since the EG4 inverter trying to compensate.

 

[doox00]

Beating the dead horse.......
Buy something like this and plug it at your inverter style mini split.
View attachment 273857
Then switch to Power Factor reading mode.
Turn on one of your inverter style mini split air conditioner and let it cool down to the specified temp. (If you want to be quick, set high temperature like 28C something or somewhere 2C lower than your room temp)
Pay attention to the power factor reading.
When the mini split just been turned on, the power factor will be close to 1 since it is pulling max power.
Whenever the mini split compressor starts to slow down when the set room temperature has been reached, pay close attention to the power factor. It will be around 0.5 - 0.6.
Ta-daaa, enjoy your LED light bulb flickering. When operating SBU (solar+battery) mode, the flickering will start when you have any PWM devices such as inverter style mini split air conditioner starts to slow down its compressor, it will cause the power factor to drop. Hence, the flickering since the EG4 inverter trying to compensate.

So how do you fix it? lol Besides replacing inverter style mini splits?

I can't easily use one of those, all my mini splits are directly from the breaker to a disconnect, no plugs.. all 240v.

 

[AshleyL]

So how do you fix it? lol Besides replacing inverter style mini splits?

I can't easily use one of those, all my mini splits are directly from the breaker to a disconnect, no plugs.. all 240v.

There is no way to fix it. Just live it with it?

It happens with all inverters from Solis and multiple Growatt inverters I owned plus two Deye inverters I managed on behalf of my neighbours.

One 'solution' for hybrid inverter (which EG4 6000XP isn't, unless if you run it in SUB *solar + utility* mode) is to sync it to grid. Let the grid "absorb" the 'irregularity' (waveform distortion etc) caused by low power factor due to PWM switching on the 'inverter style air conditioner/pump".

Read @RCinFLA comment here for detailed explanation

Post in thread 'Solark inverter - flickering lights'

Jun 10, 2023

All modern inverters using PWM digital sinewave creation have an output L-C filter to smooth out the PWM chopping to a pure sinewave.

The L-C filter has a typical cutoff corner frequency between 2 kHz to 4 kHz. When inverter is lightly loaded the L-C filter becomes very undamped which makes it vulnerable to ringing near the filter's cutoff frequency. Impulse current loads like simple rectifier-filter power supplies that draw short bursts of current at the peak voltage of AC sinewave, can set the L-C filter ringing. This is AC loads with high current crest factors and poor power...

• RCinFLA

• 
• 
• 

 

[doox00]

There is no way to fix it. Just live it with it?

It happens with all inverters from Solis and multiple Growatt inverters I owned plus two Deye inverters I managed on behalf of my neighbours.

One 'solution' for hybrid inverter (which EG4 6000XP isn't, unless if you run it in SUB *solar + utility* mode) is to sync it to grid. Let the grid "absorb" the 'irregularity' (waveform distortion etc) caused by low power factor due to PWM switching on the 'inverter style air conditioner/pump".

Hmm, what is sub "solar + utility" mode? I have utility hooked into my 3 6000xps and it auto switches to grid/utility when there is no solar or low batteries.

 

[jeff.lankford]

Start keeping a log of the time of day when you see the flickering. You can then use the data history for the inverter to possibly get more clues, e.g. look at the total load, PF, EPS voltage, EPS frequency etc. during the flickering events.

 

[AshleyL]

Hmm, what is sub "solar + utility" mode? I have utility hooked into my 3 6000xps and it auto switches to grid/utility when there is no solar or low batteries.

Ah crap, I forgot EG4 disabled the 6000XP solar + grid blending functionality in their firmware.
Well, you are outta luck then.

 

[doox00]

Is there something you can run the circuits through (The breaker in the pole barn for the lights), like a UPS for a PC to "smooth" it out?

 

[Adam De Lay]

I still can't figure this issue out.. it is random too, so something running somewhere I think is the cause but who knows what. I do have 7 Senville Aura mini splits (4 9ks, 2 12ks, and 1 18k) throughout the house, pole barn and solar shed, does my heating and cooling for everything, They are inverter style mini splits (if that matters), the flickering is not constant, comes and goes and only on led lights (all different kinds in the pole barn and the house). I have determined it is only when powered from battery/solar.

I asked signature solar about it, their tech support told me it is probably a ground somewhere, to check the ground on the panels and in all the breaker panels. I had previously already checked all the panels for the neutrals, they are all tight and separated from the ground. I checked the neutrals in the inverters as well. All the panels in the house, pole barn and solar shed are new as well, it was all redone when I did the solar install this past summer/fall. I get no flicker when there is no sun and the batteries are dead and the inverter switches to grid power.

I had flickering in my old inverters. I couldn't figure out exactly what was causing the issue either. I had to wait till the flickering started, then I went into my breaker panel and slowly started turning off each breaker one at a time to see if the flickering stopped. I would slowly go down the line and I eventually figured out the circuit that had the culprit device. Then you just have to isolate the specific device on that circuit.

It's tedious and time consuming but at least it helps you figure out what might be causing the issue so you can then formulate a plan to stop it from happening.

 

[doox00]

I had flickering in my old inverters. I couldn't figure out exactly what was causing the issue either. I had to wait till the flickering started, then I went into my breaker panel and slowly started turning off each breaker one at a time to see if the flickering stopped. I would slowly go down the line and I eventually figured out the circuit that had the culprit device. Then you just have to isolate the specific device on that circuit.

It's tedious and time consuming but at least it helps you figure out what might be causing the issue so you can then formulate a plan to stop it from happening.

What was causing it in your instance, which inverters?

 

[Adam De Lay]

What was causing it in your instance, which inverters?

2, Eg4 6500EX
It turns out that when one of our electric blankets turned on it caused flickering and also one of my Mac mini’s when it was plugged in and powered on caused flickering on any lights on that phase.

 

[Madcodger]

FWIW, I've had occasional flickering from some LED lights and, more commonly, bulbs even in on-grid properties with no solar/inverters. Some LED bulbs and lights are just prone to it, likely because they pick up interference from other devices or a dimmer. It's often barely noticeable, and we have almost none in our current home (off grid with 6000XPs). I wonder how often the inverters get blamed when it's just the bulbs or lights? My guess is that this happens often.

 

[ElkPicture]

I also doubled checked all the panels after the inverters (the house panel and sub panel and pole barn panel) and the neutral and ground are not bonded.

One thing you could try is remove the GN bond(Just for this test!), Then measure for voltage between L1 and Ground.( also try L2 and ground). Should have zero volts. Some devices will create inductance so you're be getting 50 volts or something smaller than 120 even though things are disconnected. Identify those devices and unplug them... For me a dyson vacuume plugged in to charge was creating some inductance, it could have also been a fridge running...They were on the same circuit.

 

[doox00]

I found 2 things that are causing flicker, one of my 3d printers, its ac heat bed once it hits temperature and then maintains it, it cycles off and on constantly, that cycle off and on is causing the flicker in the shop. I have a 3d print farm and all my 3d printers (bambu lab printers) are all on UPS's and are not causing any flickering, but one of my larger non bambu lab printers that can't go on a UPS (at least none of the dozen+ UPS's I have) because it draws over 1000 watts when heating up the bed and it is too much for the UPS so it is just plugged directly into the wall. Also my electric kettle in the house does the same thing, once it reaches set temp it cycles on and off to maintain temp, causing some of the led bulbs in the house to flicker. I replaced some of the bulbs with some philips ones and so far no flicker that I have noticed. Need to find all new shop lights now that won't flicker too.