EG4 6k - need help with wiring diagram

[ohsolar]

hi, I would have posted on the below thread but thought it would be confusing it with growatt

Growatt 5000 ES build/design. Help me help my neighbor!!

I'm doing my first build for a friend, and need help finalizing the design. He had ordered a bunch of parts last year, and he installed 5.2 kW of panels, but he doesn't know how to do the electrical and needed my help. He has a Growatt 5000 ES off grid inverter, Solar Edge 5k Auto transformer...

diysolarforum.com

Does the below diagram look correct?

**Getting updated with comments from this thread

Manual for eg4 6k:

https://signaturesolar.com/content/documents/EG4/6000ex/EG4%206000EX-48%20Version%201.0.1-08-29-2022.pdf

>CAUTION! Before connecting to AC input power source, install a separate AC breaker (0A max) between
inverter and AC input power source. Ensure the input breaker and conductor ratings match. Installation of a
breaker on the AC input is required for OCP and means of disconnect. Check with your AHJ and ensure correct
system design for regulatory compliance.

1) Do I need another 40A breaker between the AC input & Inverter? There is already a breaker on the Main panel. A little confused with the above statement

2) Will these work for 10awg?

https://www.amazon.com/Silicone-Electrical-Flexible-Strands-Battery/dp/B07Z4S98J4/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=10+awg+wire&qid=1662247045&sr=8-6

3) What is the output amps for 6k? Will 40A work
Nominal Output Current 27.3A (for 110VAC)
25A (for 120VAC)

4) Can I run both the #10 AWG wires in a 1 inch conduit? (i.e. 4 wires total). Will it fit inside a 1/2 or 3/4 inch conduit?

5) What wire size do I use for Neutral & Ground?

6) Will I be able to run a 40 amp AC unit with this? Looks like the max output is 40A from the inverter

7) I am thinking off getting the EG4 6k instead of the EG4 6.5k inverter since it is split phase so it supports 120v & 240v. Assuming this is correct?

8) Is there a discount code that I can apply for if I buy the whole thing together?

thank you

 

[scoharri]

hi, I would have posted on the below thread but thought it would be confusing it with growatt

Growatt 5000 ES build/design. Help me help my neighbor!!

I'm doing my first build for a friend, and need help finalizing the design. He had ordered a bunch of parts last year, and he installed 5.2 kW of panels, but he doesn't know how to do the electrical and needed my help. He has a Growatt 5000 ES off grid inverter, Solar Edge 5k Auto transformer...

diysolarforum.com

Does the below diagram look correct?

Manual for eg4 6k:

https://signaturesolar.com/content/documents/EG4/6000ex/EG4%206000EX-48%20Version%201.0.1-08-29-2022.pdf

View attachment 110112
>CAUTION! Before connecting to AC input power source, install a separate AC breaker (0A max) between
inverter and AC input power source. Ensure the input breaker and conductor ratings match. Installation of a
breaker on the AC input is required for OCP and means of disconnect. Check with your AHJ and ensure correct
system design for regulatory compliance.

1) Do I need another 40A breaker between the AC input & Inverter? There is already a breaker on the Main panel. A little confused with the above statement

2) Will these work for 10awg?

https://www.amazon.com/Silicone-Electrical-Flexible-Strands-Battery/dp/B07Z4S98J4/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=10+awg+wire&qid=1662247045&sr=8-6

3) What is the output amps for 6k? Will 40A work
Nominal Output Current 27.3A (for 110VAC)
25A (for 120VAC)

4) Can I run both the #10 AWG wires in a 1 inch conduit? (i.e. 4 wires total). Will it fit inside a 1/2 or 3/4 inch conduit?

5) What wire size do I use for Neutral & Ground?

6) Will I be able to run a 40 amp AC unit with this? Looks like the max output is 40A from the inverter

7) I am thinking off getting the EG4 6k instead of the EG4 6.5k inverter since it is split phase so it supports 120v & 240v. Assuming this is correct?

8) Is there a discount code that I can apply for if I buy the whole thing together?

thank you

What is the power source for the "A/C In" to the inverter?

 

[ohsolar]

oops..mis-labelled. Fixed. Thanks for the catch

 

[BentleyJ]

2 AWG is undersized for a 200A Breaker. I would recommend using Class K or M welding cable of the correct gauge. Easy enough to look up the ampacity chart on the internet.

10AWG is undersized for a 40A breaker. I believe it should be 8AWG or 6AWG depending on the length.

 

[BentleyJ]

4) Can I run both the #10 AWG wires in a 1 inch conduit? (i.e. 4 wires total). Will it fit inside a 1/2 or 3/4 inch conduit?

5) What wire size do I use for Neutral & Ground?

6) Will I be able to run a 40 amp AC unit with this? Looks like the max output is 40A from the inverter

7) I am thinking off getting the EG4 6k instead of the EG4 6.5k inverter since it is split phase so it supports 120v & 240v. Assuming this is correct?

8) Is there a discount code that I can apply for if I buy the whole thing together?

thank you

4) http://www.elliottelectric.com/Stat...nces/ElectricalTables/Conduit_Fill_Table.aspx
Don't confuse wire fill capacities which is based on cross sectional area of the conduit with the NEC number of current carrying conductors that can be in one conduit before they have to be derated. I believe its 3 current carrying conductors before derating.

5) Neutral should be same AWG as the Hot(s). Ground wire can be downsized based on the chart.

 

[John Frum]

2 AWG is undersized for a 200A Breaker. I would recommend using Class K or M welding cable of the correct gauge. Easy enough to look up the ampacity chart on the internet.

That is not universally true.
For pure copper wire 105C insulation in free air ABYC permits it.

Interactive Wire Size Calculator

Battery Chargers, Inverters, Solar Components, and Wiring Supplies for Boats, RVs, and Off-Grid Applications.

baymarinesupply.com

For 90C insulation NEC allows 190 amps/

https://www.uglys.net/docs/default-source/uglys-documents/errata/UglysResidentialWiring2017_Errata_Page2.pdf

 

[John Frum]

However I would use 1/0 awg with that breaker.

 

[BentleyJ]

That is not universally true.
For pure copper wire 105C insulation in free air ABYC permits it.

Interactive Wire Size Calculator

Battery Chargers, Inverters, Solar Components, and Wiring Supplies for Boats, RVs, and Off-Grid Applications.

baymarinesupply.com

For 90C insulation NEC allows 190 amps/

https://www.uglys.net/docs/default-source/uglys-documents/errata/UglysResidentialWiring2017_Errata_Page2.pdf

Yes, technically you are correct but are we sizing inverter wiring so as to minimize voltage drop and maximize efficiency or are we designing systems that double as heating devices as well?

 

[ohsolar]

2 AWG is undersized for a 200A Breaker. I would recommend using Class K or M welding cable of the correct gauge. Easy enough to look up the ampacity chart on the internet.

10AWG is undersized for a 40A breaker. I believe it should be 8AWG or 6AWG depending on the length.

2 AWG..hmm. Ty..will do some more research

3) Am I not reading this correct? AC In is 40A, what is out? 25? Adding spec

 

[ohsolar]

4) http://www.elliottelectric.com/Stat...nces/ElectricalTables/Conduit_Fill_Table.aspx
Don't confuse wire fill capacities which is based on cross sectional area of the conduit with the NEC number of current carrying conductors that can be in one conduit before they have to be derated. I believe its 3 current carrying conductors before derating.

5) Neutral should be same AWG as the Hot(s). Ground wire can be downsized based on the chart. View attachment 110119

4) so there will be 2 current carrying conductors from Inverter to Main and 2 from Inverter to Subpanel. Let's say it totals 80A. So they cannot go in the same conduit due to > 3? I will try to read up NEC

5) Doesn't N go from Main to sub-panel? Should there be another wire running from Inverter to Main or Sub?

 

[Subdood]

I'm looking at the same inverter and using it like you are. This inverter provides 120/240V output, but needs 240V input (two hots and a neutral). The max power output for the inverter is 6kW, or 3kW for each 120V leg. That means 25A for each 120V leg. That's why they recommend a 40A (double pole) breaker for the input and output, and 10 gauge wire. A 30A breaker ought to be sufficient, but it might trip in an overload on one of the 120V legs.

My preliminary design is to use a double pole 40A breaker on my outside pole panel, run the wires in 1/2 inch conduit to my office where the inverter will be. That means two hots, a neutral, and ground wire, all 10 gauge in the conduit. 1/2in conduit can handle three current carrying conductors (ground is not considered current carrying). You do have to account for voltage drop if your run is too long.

From the output of the inverter, I'm running 10 gauge (2 hots, neutral) in a different 1/2 inch conduit to a critical loads panel, which will be next to my main house panel in a different room. That crit loads panel will have another double pole 40A breaker on it, and will have most of my 120V breakers in it, moved from the main panel.

For my battery hookup, for now, I'm planning on one of the Lifepower4 batts, hooked up to the inverter using 1/0 wires, because I might add another battery later. Other than the outside service pole panel, none of the grounds and neutrals will be bonded together.

 

[BentleyJ]

3) 25A output is per each 120V leg (3000W) The 40 Amp value is the rating of the internal transfer switch but according to the specs max grid output is still only 25A even when in Line mode.

4) L1, L2 & N+G = 3 current carrying conductors. You could double that to 6 (3 for input and 3 for output) you would just need to derate the conductors by going up to a larger size of wire for example instead of 8AWG you would use 6AWG.

5) The neutral has to originate in the main panel, go to N on AC Input, then the neutral continues through the inverter to N on AC Output which goes to the sub panel.

 

[Subdood]

Answering your other questions,

1) I think they are talking about an external AC disconnect, not your input breaker on your main panel. I think that's required if you're wanting the system to pass a safety inspection. I think it's for firemen to turn off the power to the inverter in an emergency situation.

6) If your AC unit is one of those outside units, I doubt it could start it. At full power, this inverter can put out 50A (25A both legs), but those compressors need a lot of current to get then started. This inverter I think is low frequency, hence it has a big honking transformer that handles surges well, but I don't think could start it.

7) The 6500 EX has a single phase 120V output, this 6000 is a split phase 120/240V output. You can get 240V out of two of the 6500's though.

 

[ohsolar]

I'm looking at the same inverter and using it like you are. This inverter provides 120/240V output, but needs 240V input (two hots and a neutral). The max power output for the inverter is 6kW, or 3kW for each 120V leg. That means 25A for each 120V leg. That's why they recommend a 40A (double pole) breaker for the input and output, and 10 gauge wire. A 30A breaker ought to be sufficient, but it might trip in an overload on one of the 120V legs.

My preliminary design is to use a double pole 40A breaker on my outside pole panel, run the wires in 1/2 inch conduit to my office where the inverter will be. That means two hots, a neutral, and ground wire, all 10 gauge in the conduit. 1/2in conduit can handle three current carrying conductors (ground is not considered current carrying). You do have to account for voltage drop if your run is too long.

From the output of the inverter, I'm running 10 gauge (2 hots, neutral) in a different 1/2 inch conduit to a critical loads panel, which will be next to my main house panel in a different room. That crit loads panel will have another double pole 40A breaker on it, and will have most of my 120V breakers in it, moved from the main panel.

For my battery hookup, for now, I'm planning on one of the Lifepower4 batts, hooked up to the inverter using 1/0 wires, because I might add another battery later. Other than the outside service pole panel, none of the grounds and neutrals will be bonded together.

good to know that you are planning something of the same . I have updated the diagram.

Ground -- So the ground has to be run from main to inverter to sub just like the N?

 

[ohsolar]

Answering your other questions,

1) I think they are talking about an external AC disconnect, not your input breaker on your main panel. I think that's required if you're wanting the system to pass a safety inspection. I think it's for firemen to turn off the power to the inverter in an emergency situation.

6) If your AC unit is one of those outside units, I doubt it could start it. At full power, this inverter can put out 50A (25A both legs), but those compressors need a lot of current to get then started. This inverter I think is low frequency, hence it has a big honking transformer that handles surges well, but I don't think could start it.

7) The 6500 EX has a single phase 120V output, this 6000 is a split phase 120/240V output. You can get 240V out of two of the 6500's though.

Answering your other questions,

1) I think they are talking about an external AC disconnect, not your input breaker on your main panel. I think that's required if you're wanting the system to pass a safety inspection. I think it's for firemen to turn off the power to the inverter in an emergency situation.

6) If your AC unit is one of those outside units, I doubt it could start it. At full power, this inverter can put out 50A (25A both legs), but those compressors need a lot of current to get then started. This inverter I think is low frequency, hence it has a big honking transformer that handles surges well, but I don't think could start it.

7) The 6500 EX has a single phase 120V output, this 6000 is a split phase 120/240V output. You can get 240V out of two of the 6500's though.

1) I have a permit and would need an inspection. Can't they just turn if off from the Main breaker?

6) 1 have 2 units. 1 says max 30 amps, other 40 max amps. Will it work if I have 2 inverters (eg6k)

7) 2x6500 would cost more. Any advantages to having 6500?

 

[Subdood]

Ground -- So the ground has to be run from main to inverter to sub just like the N?

I'm running a ground from the pole panel to the input of the inverter. But, not from the inverter (output) to the critical loads panel. The ground for that panel will be from my main house panel. My runs to and from the inverter are a bit long, that output ground connection should be okay, and be helpful in reducing RF emissions. At least that's @FilterGuy has suggested. But that was for my proposed setup using the 6500, not this inverter. But, I'm guessing it's still okay.

 

[ohsolar]

3) 25A output is per each 120V leg (3000W) The 40 Amp value is the rating of the internal transfer switch but according to the specs max grid output is still only 25A even when in Line mode.

4) L1, L2 & N+G = 3 current carrying conductors. You could double that to 6 (3 for input and 3 for output) you would just need to derate the conductors by going up to a larger size of wire for example instead of 8AWG you would use 6AWG.

5) The neutral has to originate in the main panel, go to N on AC Input, then the neutral continues through the inverter to N on AC Output which goes to the sub panel.

3) so 40 would work i guess.

4) so 10 awg is good. So with derate, I could go to 8. Then it can be in 1 conduit? (8 wires - 6 carry, 2 ground?)

5) Great. Same for Ground?

I have updated the diagram. Maybe the Ground is missing..

 

[Subdood]

1) I have a permit and would need an inspection. Can't they just turn if off from the Main breaker?

It has to be on the outside of the house, where an emergency person can switch it off. I'm assuming your main panel would be inside the house?

6) 1 have 2 units. 1 says max 30 amps, other 40 max amps. Will it work if I have 2 inverters (eg6k)

Two outside AC units? One each for each floor, if you have a two story house? I still don't know if one of these inverters could start it. Maybe, but I'm guessing no. Look at the LRA current on the units, that's the current required to crank the compressor, usually more than 75A.

 

[ohsolar]

It has to be on the outside of the house, where an emergency person can switch it off. I'm assuming your main panel would be inside the house?


Two outside AC units? One each for each floor, if you have a two story house? I still don't know if one of these inverters could start it. Maybe, but I'm guessing no. Look at the LRA current on the units, that's the current required to crank the compressor, usually more than 75A.

Yes, main panel is inside the garage. Yes, 2 floors. LRA current -- will need to check

Just found this video from Will Prowse..today's...he is using 6500s. 6000 is LF so maybe it can handle it. Wondering if I should now look at 6500 because of the weight :-( One reason is that I found out the setting where you could charge/discharge the battery at a specified time(I get free energy after 8pm). I did not see that on the 6500. Maybe it does?

 

[Subdood]

7) 2x6500 would cost more. Any advantages to having 6500?

The 6500 weighs less, has 2 PV inputs rated at 8kw (2x4kw), probably uses less power at idle. But the 6000 already has split phase, a larger transformer that can handle surges better. So, it's whatever you prefer. I don't like the idea of having to use two 6500's to get split phase, plus the associated ground/neutral issues that comes with it.