EG4 6k - need help with wiring diagram

[Subdood]

#2. AC usually does not run for 2 hours continuous. It will start/stop and maybe run for 1 hour during a 2 hour period (maybe less). So theoretically, it could power for 4 hours (with 10kwh)..just guessing here

>But, these EG4 batts don't seem to like big current spikes, so I could be mistaken.
hmm..Did you see that in some doc/video?

I will add #4 here:
1) This video shows the inverter out coming into the sub-panel main lug without a breaker and powering the rest of the circuits

so in the sub-panel below, is the 40A the main lug breaker? Do you have picture of your setup?

View attachment 110338

Regarding Q2, then yes, it could run 4 hours, if it's not on all the time. Guess it depends on your thermostat settings.

This forum has different accounts of the EG4 battery not liking big current spikes, probably the BMS shutting down with an overcurrent condition. But with a big transformer like the 6000 has, plus 10.2kwh of battery power, it ought to start one of your AC units.

In the vid you posted,, Will has since changed this setup using the EG4 6500, which is essentially the same as the MPP Solar LV6548 which he's showing in the vid you posted. Here's his new system video. The 6500 has a single phase 120V output, but two can be configured to output 240V split phase.

He doesn't use a breaker in the original subpanel for the LV6548's, he just ties the the two outputs of each inverter to the two hot lugs on the subpanel. But he does use a 60A double pole breaker for his EG4 6500 system. The hot wire from each inverter goes to this 60A breaker. I think since he's not using the AC input on this system, he has the neutrals and grounds bonded in this panel.

This subpanel has various devices hooked up to it, I think he has his Tesla car charger and his mini split AC unit hooked up to it.

I don’t have my system built yet, the only components I have right now are 8 445W solar panels.

 

[ohsolar]

Regarding Q2, then yes, it could run 4 hours, if it's not on all the time. Guess it depends on your thermostat settings.

This forum has different accounts of the EG4 battery not liking big current spikes, probably the BMS shutting down with an overcurrent condition. But with a big transformer like the 6000 has, plus 10.2kwh of battery power, it ought to start one of your AC units.

In the vid you posted,, Will has since changed this setup using the EG4 6500, which is essentially the same as the MPP Solar LV6548 which he's showing in the vid you posted. Here's his new system video. The 6500 has a single phase 120V output, but two can be configured to output 240V split phase.

He doesn't use a breaker in the original subpanel for the LV6548's, he just ties the the two outputs of each inverter to the two hot lugs on the subpanel. But he does use a 60A double pole breaker for his EG4 6500 system. The hot wire from each inverter goes to this 60A breaker. I think since he's not using the AC input on this system, he has the neutrals and grounds bonded in this panel.

This subpanel has various devices hooked up to it, I think he has his Tesla car charger and his mini split AC unit hooked up to it.

I don’t have my system built yet, the only components I have right now are 8 445W solar panels.

Thank you..that helps. Was getting confused between the 2 setups. I have marked it up. I was planning on taking out the bonding screw. In this video, he says to keep it unless in bypass mode. Which mode am I? . I guess it could be used as a backup also. It will actively run during the day for few hours until battery runs out and then be back to grid. Then next day the same. Should I remove or keep the bonding screw with EG 6k. EG 6.5 setup looks ok also and you get 13kw. Just costs double for 240v.

 

[Subdood]

Thank you..that helps. Was getting confused between the 2 setups. I have marked it up. I was planning on taking out the bonding screw. In this video, he says to keep it unless in bypass mode. Which mode am I? . I guess it could be used as a backup also. It will actively run during the day for few hours until battery runs out and then be back to grid. Then next day the same. Should I remove or keep the bonding screw with EG 6k. EG 6.5 setup looks ok also and you get 13kw. Just costs double for 240v.


View attachment 110352

Sounds like you would be in bypass mode, like I'm planning on. So, this panel would not have the neutral and ground bonded. Or the bonding screw you're referring to. But, remember this is for two single phase inverters, not two of the split phase inverters.

If you're just using one of the 6000's, you don't need this panel, you'd need a critical load panel, with a double pole 40A breaker from the inverter's two hots, plus the neutral. The ground and neutral wouldn't be bonded in this panel. The critical loads would need to be moved from the main panel to the sub. Preferably both of these panels would be next to each other to make the transfer easier.

I don't know enough about the 6000 ground/neutral in the various modes. Nobody on here has one that can be checked out, and Signature Solar hasn't answered my questions regarding that.

 

[ohsolar]

Sounds like you would be in bypass mode, like I'm planning on. So, this panel would not have the neutral and ground bonded. Or the bonding screw you're referring to. But, remember this is for two single phase inverters, not two of the split phase inverters.

If you're just using one of the 6000's, you don't need this panel, you'd need a critical load panel, with a double pole 40A breaker from the inverter's two hots, plus the neutral. The ground and neutral wouldn't be bonded in this panel. The critical loads would need to be moved from the main panel to the sub. Preferably both of these panels would be next to each other to make the transfer easier.

I don't know enough about the 6000 ground/neutral in the various modes. Nobody on here has one that can be checked out, and Signature Solar hasn't answered my questions regarding that.

That is what I was thinking. This is the panel I have and I took out the screw so no bonding. I plan to use this as a critical load panel. So the main lugs will remain disconnected..a 40A double pole breaker as you said would do the job.

1) Do the inverters need to go on 1 side or does it matter?
2) Main lugs will not have a circuit breaker. 40A double pole will be on left and load on right
3) The critical load panel will be next to main panel so I don't have to run long wires
4) Was reading up on Signature Solar -- bunch of complaints. Not sure what to make off it. Any others you have looked at?
5) Do they have different panels for each? Will the below work as a critical load panel?

 

[Subdood]

That is what I was thinking. This is the panel I have and I took out the screw so no bonding. I plan to use this as a critical load panel. So the main lugs will remain disconnected..a 40A double pole breaker as you said would do the job.

1) Do the inverters need to go on 1 side or does it matter?
2) Main lugs will not have a circuit breaker. 40A double pole will be on left and load on right
3) The critical load panel will be next to main panel so I don't have to run long wires
4) Was reading up on Signature Solar -- bunch of complaints. Not sure what to make off it. Any others you have looked at?
5) Do they have different panels for each? Will the below work as a critical load panel?

1) You are talking about inverters, does this mean you want to install two of the 6000's or two of the 6500's?

No, it doesn't matter where you plug in your double pole 40A breaker. It will feed both 120V legs of the panel. You could plug your load breakers anywhere on the panel, preferably keeping them balanced between the two legs.

4) Yeah, lots of complaints, but you probably won't hear too much bad publicity about them on here from satisfied customers. I've looked at other vendors, but probably will be getting my inverter and batteries from them. I'm still learning about this stuff, even though I have electronics experience. It seems like this technology has just blown up over the last few years, especially with the advent of all these all in one inverters and especially these server rack batteries. Seems like most vendors are lacking in timely tech support, so one is going to have to learn on their own, and from forums like this.

5) That doesn't look like it'll support a lot of loads, maybe 4 slots besides the inverter output breaker? I don’t know how many you are planning to move to a critical loads panel, but 6 doesn't seem to be enough.

 

[ohsolar]

1) You are talking about inverters, does this mean you want to install two of the 6000's or two of the 6500's?

No, it doesn't matter where you plug in your double pole 40A breaker. It will feed both 120V legs of the panel. You could plug your load breakers anywhere on the panel, preferably keeping them balanced between the two legs.

4) Yeah, lots of complaints, but you probably won't hear too much bad publicity about them on here from satisfied customers. I've looked at other vendors, but probably will be getting my inverter and batteries from them. I'm still learning about this stuff, even though I have electronics experience. It seems like this technology has just blown up over the last few years, especially with the advent of all these all in one inverters and especially these server rack batteries. Seems like most vendors are lacking in timely tech support, so one is going to have to learn on their own, and from forums like this.

5) That doesn't look like it'll support a lot of loads, maybe 4 slots besides the inverter output breaker? I don’t know how many you are planning to move to a critical loads panel, but 6 doesn't seem to be enough.

1) Not decided but leaning towards 6k but worried about the weight and mounting. In summer we use about 80-100kwh / day. So let's say it averages about 4kwh. Thinking either one will handle it. 6.5k -- I would need 2 for the split phase. I don't think I will ever need more than 2 of these
4)

5) It says 12 space / 24 circuits. So if I have 2 inverters, it would take up 4 spaces right? Then left with 8.
AC - 2
Range - 2
then 4 others with 120v circuits. Am I calculating it wrong?

so many questions
6) Is there any difference between these 10awg wires? In one case I have to run 3 vs just running 1. Not sure about pricing

 

[BentleyJ]

The gray cable looks like Type NM commonly called Romex. It is designed for residential use to be run in walls and attics. It should not be used in exposed locations and cannot be put into conduit due to the heat build up of having its own insulation jacket.

The Red is THHN is used inside flex, EMT, wire way or rigid conduit.

 

[Subdood]

1) Not decided but leaning towards 6k but worried about the weight and mounting. In summer we use about 80-100kwh / day. So let's say it averages about 4kwh. Thinking either one will handle it. 6.5k -- I would need 2 for the split phase. I don't think I will ever need more than 2 of these
4)

5) It says 12 space / 24 circuits. So if I have 2 inverters, it would take up 4 spaces right? Then left with 8.
AC - 2
Range - 2
then 4 others with 120v circuits. Am I calculating it wrong?

so many questions
6) Is there any difference between these 10awg wires? In one case I have to run 3 vs just running 1. Not sure about pricing

5) OK. Guess I was looking at it wrong. 12 spaces is probably okay, but doesn't leave you much room for expansion. Yes two of the 6000's would take up 4 spaces, because of two double pole 40A breakers. Two of the 6500's would take up 2 spaces, for one 70A double pole breaker. If you're wanting to power both a range and one AC unit, and other 120V items, I doubt one of either inverter is going to be enough.

6) Bentley is correct, Romex can't be put in conduit, but THHN/THWN can, plus it can handle more current than Romex of the same gauge. 10 gauge Romex (NM-B) current max is 30A, THHN/THWN can handle 35A, or 40A, depending on its temperature rating. I've found that Nassau Cable is selling THHN 90C 10 gauge wire for only 37 cents/foot, very good price. That wire is rated for 40A.

https://nassaunationalcable.com/collections/residential-wire-and-cable/products/thhn-thwn2

You haven't mentioned anything about solar panels, are you going to install an array? Or are you using this setup as a UPS?

Not trying to be nosy, but I'm guessing from your login name, are you in Ohio? I'm in NE Kentucky.

 

[ohsolar]

5) OK. Guess I was looking at it wrong. 12 spaces is probably okay, but doesn't leave you much room for expansion. Yes two of the 6000's would take up 4 spaces, because of two double pole 40A breakers. Two of the 6500's would take up 2 spaces, for one 70A double pole breaker. If you're wanting to power both a range and one AC unit, and other 120V items, I doubt one of either inverter is going to be enough.

6) Bentley is correct, Romex can't be put in conduit, but THHN/THWN can, plus it can handle more current than Romex of the same gauge. 10 gauge Romex (NM-B) current max is 30A, THHN/THWN can handle 35A, or 40A, depending on its temperature rating. I've found that Nassau Cable is selling THHN 90C 10 gauge wire for only 37 cents/foot, very good price. That wire is rated for 40A.

https://nassaunationalcable.com/collections/residential-wire-and-cable/products/thhn-thwn2

You haven't mentioned anything about solar panels, are you going to install an array? Or are you using this setup as a UPS?

Not trying to be nosy, but I'm guessing from your login name, are you in Ohio? I'm in NE Kentucky.

5) hmm..ok. So 2 x 6500 only takes up 2 spaces? I will check out a bigger load panel.

6) got it. Thanks for the link

Solar -- I get free power after 9 pm so planning to use that as a battery charger. So charge battery at night and run them during day time. No solar to start. Might put it up later. I have not checked closely but don't see a major difference between 6k and 6.5k on solar input. Is there?

I am in Tx ;-)

 

[ohsolar]

Is it ok to put the inverter on top of the rack if it fits?

 

[ohsolar]

so @Subdood , are you trying to run the whole house with the 6.5k + solar? How many inverters + battery(?) are you planning for? What specifically on the 6.5k is making you go that route?

 

[Subdood]

so @Subdood , are you trying to run the whole house with the 6.5k + solar? How many inverters + battery(?) are you planning for? What specifically on the 6.5k is making you go that route?

I'm actually leaning towards the 6000, because I would already get split phase. Plus, I have long runs between inverter and my critical load panel, so my wiring costs would be lower if I ran 10g wire for the 6000, as opposed to 6ga for the 6500.

No, I'm not running the whole house on solar/batteries, right now I'm planning on one 5kwh battery and one inverter to go with my 3.6kW solar array. As my budget allows, I'll add more solar and batteries.

BTW, the 6500 has 2x4kw PV inputs, and the 6000 has one 7kw input. But, the 6000's max current for its input is 27A, and each 6500 input is rated at 18A each.

Oh, OK, you're in Texas. I lived in the DFW area for almost 30 years before we moved here 8 years ago. I'm from Oklahoma, actually, but we live on my wife's family farm. Grow our own veggies and fruits, more privacy, quieter, we have city water, but well water's available if needed. Just wanted to be more self sufficient, and away from big city life.

 

[ohsolar]

I'm actually leaning towards the 6000, because I would already get split phase. Plus, I have long runs between inverter and my critical load panel, so my wiring costs would be lower if I ran 10g wire for the 6000, as opposed to 6ga for the 6500.

Very cool.

No, I'm not running the whole house on solar/batteries, right now I'm planning on one 5kwh battery and one inverter to go with my 3.6kW solar array. As my budget allows, I'll add more solar and batteries.

yeah, budget is what I am worried about also. Wondering If I should get 2 or 1 battery. Shipping cost will be cheaper if I get 2 now and also if you buy the battery from SS, they will discount the rack(6 unit rack)

BTW, the 6500 has 2x4kw PV inputs, and the 6000 has one 7kw input. But, the 6000's max current for its input is 27A, and each 6500 input is rated at 18A each.

Oh, OK, you're in Texas. I lived in the DFW area for almost 30 years before we moved here 8 years ago. I'm from Oklahoma, actually, but we live on my wife's family farm. Grow our own veggies and fruits, more privacy, quieter, we have city water, but well water's available if needed. Just wanted to be more self sufficient, and away from big city life.

oh, good to know. I am in the DFW area. Guess you have more freedom to do stuff in the farm. Are you getting permits to do the work? I got the permit and slowly building my tool set

 

[Subdood]

Very cool.

yeah, budget is what I am worried about also. Wondering If I should get 2 or 1 battery. Shipping cost will be cheaper if I get 2 now and also if you buy the battery from SS, they will discount the rack(6 unit rack)

oh, good to know. I am in the DFW area. Guess you have more freedom to do stuff in the farm. Are you getting permits to do the work? I got the permit and slowly building my tool set

Yeah, SS will charge me $325 to ship one of their batteries, but if I buy 1-3 more, the shipping is the same. I think you have to buy minimum of 3 batts to get the rack discount.

I lived in mostly on the east side of Dallas County- Mesquite, east Dallas, and when we got married, my wife and I bought a house in Wylie before we moved here. We tried growing veggies there, but it was just too hot too early in the summer to get anything to produce. The only thing that would grow well was okra, tomatoes and peppers won't pollinate above 90 degrees, so after July, no production from them. We've had a very good year here with our tomatoes, I think we've harvested at least 100lb so far, canned about 15 quarts of them, and canned another 10 pints of salsa.

I haven't checked into permits here, we're in a very rural area (just 15k people in our county), so I don't think it would be a problem installing a system here. I'm not doing grid-tie, and my array will be a ground mount, so I don't think I'd need any permits, but I ought to check.

An interesting aside, our US Congressman lives in our county, about 25 miles from us, and he's almost totally off-grid. He built his house on his own, put in a solar power system, and has a refurbished Tesla car battery as his energy storage. Very cool.

 

[ohsolar]

Yeah, SS will charge me $325 to ship one of their batteries, but if I buy 1-3 more, the shipping is the same. I think you have to buy minimum of 3 batts to get the rack discount.

wish I could replace the battery with the inverter to get the discount

I lived in mostly on the east side of Dallas County- Mesquite, east Dallas, and when we got married, my wife and I bought a house in Wylie before we moved here. We tried growing veggies there, but it was just too hot too early in the summer to get anything to produce. The only thing that would grow well was okra, tomatoes and peppers won't pollinate above 90 degrees, so after July, no production from them. We've had a very good year here with our tomatoes, I think we've harvested at least 100lb so far, canned about 15 quarts of them, and canned another 10 pints of salsa.

Wylie -- hmm, wonder where that is ..it is about 5 miles away. 100 lbs -- wow

I haven't checked into permits here, we're in a very rural area (just 15k people in our county), so I don't think it would be a problem installing a system here. I'm not doing grid-tie, and my array will be a ground mount, so I don't think I'd need any permits, but I ought to check.

An interesting aside, our US Congressman lives in our county, about 25 miles from us, and he's almost totally off-grid. He built his house on his own, put in a solar power system, and has a refurbished Tesla car battery as his energy storage. Very cool.

nice.

 

[Subdood]

wish I could replace the battery with the inverter to get the discount

Wylie -- hmm, wonder where that is ..it is about 5 miles away. 100 lbs -- wow

nice.

At least 100lb, and more to pick last I checked, but the plants are getting a bit rough looking.

5 miles from Wylie, well not much is around there to the east, but then there's Sachse, Murphy, Parker or Rowlett.

My wife were in that area a couple months ago, stayed at some friends near Murphy. Couldn't believe how much that area's grown since we left in 2014.

I kinda miss it, but the traffic and the heat, nah..

 

[Elexide]

However I would use 1/0 awg with that breaker.

Too avoid voltage drop and heat you should use 2/0 for 200 amps . 3/0 is best but not necessary . use fine stranded or welding cable. none of this 1/0 or 2 awg stuff. 40 amp breaker should have #8 cu

 

[John Frum]

Too avoid voltage drop and heat you should use 2/0 for 200 amps . 3/0 is best but not necessary . use fine stranded or welding cable. none of this 1/0 or 2 awg stuff. 40 amp breaker should have #8 cu

Why is fine stranded wire required?

 

[BentleyJ]

Why is fine stranded wire required?

Its not required, its just much easier to work with due to its flexibility. Its my preferred choice. Although the special crimp lugs with oversized barrel are sometimes more difficult to find.

 

[ohsolar]

Too avoid voltage drop and heat you should use 2/0 for 200 amps . 3/0 is best but not necessary . use fine stranded or welding cable. none of this 1/0 or 2 awg stuff. 40 amp breaker should have #8 cu

hmm...ok.
"a wire labeled 2 0 will be thicker than a wire labeled 2 AWG. Also, lower AWG wires typically have higher amps, which is an electrical current's base unit. For example, a 2 0 copper wire will have up to 200 amps while a 2 AWG copper wire will have up to 125 amps."

Would this work?

2/0 XHHW-2 Copper Building Wire

2/0 XHHW-2 cable, 195A, ideal for conduit or direct burial, commercial & residential. Complies with NEC. Free shipping on orders over $1000.

nassaunationalcable.com