EG4 Cabinet - add a non EG4 battery?

[DwaltonOR]

I am looking to add a 3rd battery to my EG4 small cabinet. Currently, I have 2 48v 100Ah EG4 Lifepower4 (v1) batteries installed - both working fine. All connected to a EG4 6000XP. It is a new system that I will grow over time... as money allows. I would stick to the same EG4 batteries - but I can get a Vatrer Power 48V 100Ah LifePO4 battery for nearly half the cost (shipped) as an EG4 battery like I already have.

So I am thinking about getting the Vatrer and installing it into my current rack. It wouldn't be connected to Coms - but what other things am I not thinking about? I know I am missing something. I will need to be sure everything is charging correctly - as well as having the 3 batteries perform together as intended. Other than hooking the Vatrer to the bus bars in the cabinet - making sure everything starts out at 100% SOC - and keeping an eye on things.

I suppose I could go with a ECO-Worthy battery for only a little more than the Vatrer - but not sure it has any more benefits ...

Or should I just spend the nearly 1600$ for the EG4 battery shipped?

VATRER POWER 48V 100AH Lithium LiFePO4 Battery​

 

[EG4TechSolutionsTeam]

Mixing different battery brands with EG4 batteries is not recommended, as they have different designs and BMS. While possible, it may possibly lead to charging imbalances and performance issues. For the best reliability, sticking with EG4 batteries is advised.

 

[chrisski]

I'd stick with EG4.

If the EG4 is in closed loop communication with the battery, putting a open loop battery in there may or may not effect it. I think you'd have to buy and install the other battery to be sure. If you run them without BMS communication, if that's an option, if the new battery was a 16 call solar battery and not a 15 cell server rack battery, it would be fine. Some of the cheaper batteries are 15 cell batteries which would not do well with a 16 cell EG4.

 

[marionw]

If you do install another battery type you will more than likely need to add a 1/6 to 3/16 inch shim to each of the support brackets so at least two of the bolt holes for the mounting "ears" of the new battery will line up. I have six SunGoldPower batteries installed in an EG4 six battery rack and I shimmed each battery so the two top holes for the mounting "ears" lined up.
As long as the new battery is 16 cells with the same capacity/chemistry you should be able to connect it to the the bus bars (the great reason for the rack). Just make sure all batteries are at the same charge/voltage before closing breakers.

In addition you may have to tweak the new battery BMS parameters so it works with whatever charge profile you are using for the EG4's so it will also track with respect to SOC (particularly SOC reset to 100%) and hopefully cell balancing.

I have six SGP batteries in one rack, six EG4 Lifepower4 (V1) in another rack and both racks are connected with 2awg cables and Anderson connectors (plenty of class T fuses using Blue Sea Systems Class T Fuse Blocks). In addition I have two CyccleVolt batteries stacked with the SGP's as they all have a PACE BMS. My Master SGP is happy with the two CyccleVolts and communicates with them, no issues. All batteries play well together.

I prefer batteries with RS485 or RS232 monitoring capability so I personally would not buy a battery without RS485 or RS232 monitoring capability.
Solar Assistant and/or Home Assistant are inexpensive monitoring tools.

 

[42OhmsPA]

It wouldn't be connected to Coms

As long as you use safe voltages you'll be fine. Each battery must have the same amount of cells in series, in your case 16s.
Are you using comms with the EG4 batteries?
What voltage are you charging to currently?

 

[DwaltonOR]

I continue to research this - I will probably opt for the EG4 battery for now.
Currently, the system is set up to charge to 100% SOC - the EG4 batteries are on COMs. The new battery - if it was the Vatrer I had mentioned - would not have been on COM. I am unsure about the possibility of of the E-W option.

 

[marionw]

I continue to research this - I will probably opt for the EG4 battery for now.
Currently, the system is set up to charge to 100% SOC - the EG4 batteries are on COMs. The new battery - if it was the Vatrer I had mentioned - would not have been on COM. I am unsure about the possibility of of the E-W option.

The EG4 V1 will only communicate battery to battery with other EG4 batteries.
I don't believe you can even get a V1 anymore. You will probably get a V2, or one of the other EG4 battery flavors.
You will most likely have to upgrade the V1 firmware as well so getting the BMS_Test software for the V1 installed and communicating with your batteries will be a must.
There is quite a bit of info in this forum on getting the V1 to communicate (thus supporting closed loop for all batteries) with other EG4 batteries such as the V2 and the LL series.

The @EG4TechSolutionsTeam can certainly assist you in adding a third battery and what it will take to ensure all three communicate and support closed loop.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Currently, the system is set up to charge to 100% SOC - the EG4 batteries are on COMs. The new battery - if it was the Vatrer I had mentioned - would not have been on COM. I am unsure about the possibility of of the E-W option.

Depending what voltage the EG4 charges to you would be fine. If it charges excessively high you would likely have issues with the other batteries hitting HVD.

Good luck on your journey.

 

[DwaltonOR]

I installed this system in late November - first week or so of December. Firmware was updated at that time - as EG4 was already shipping the V2 batteries - I had just had ordered and got the v1's from SS prior to that. Everything is currently running great - and now that the sun is riding a bit higher each day (I am just slightly north of the 45º in Oregon) - my batteries are topping off - and I would like to harvest more power if possible.

I'm currently looking at pricing with shipping - most are within 50$ of each other for the EG4's... at about 1550$

 

[DwaltonOR]

Mixing different battery brands with EG4 batteries is not recommended, as they have different designs and BMS. While possible, it may possibly lead to charging imbalances and performance issues. For the best reliability, sticking with EG4 batteries is advised.

Since my cabinet is only a 3 slot - I decided to order the EG4 battery to complete it instead of messing with the cheaper options. Hopefully I will have the new battery in a week or two depending on shipping. In the future I will be looking into another bank of batteries - and I am sure I will need to research doing that in a year or so. Next step for my small and growing system will be another batch of panels to double my intake.

 

[Jmhai3]

Since my cabinet is only a 3 slot - I decided to order the EG4 battery to complete it instead of messing with the cheaper options. Hopefully I will have the new battery in a week or two depending on shipping. In the future I will be looking into another bank of batteries - and I am sure I will need to research doing that in a year or so. Next step for my small and growing system will be another batch of panels to double my intake.

I would have done the same.
KISS method.

 

[DwaltonOR]

Mixing different battery brands with EG4 batteries is not recommended, as they have different designs and BMS. While possible, it may possibly lead to charging imbalances and performance issues. For the best reliability, sticking with EG4 batteries is advised.

since the new battery is a v2... and the existing 2 batteries in the bank are v1 I was told I would need to update firmware on the v1 batteries. I had updated the firmware when I built the system in December - how do I know what firmware the v1 batteries have? OR do I just update them regardless lol.

 

[Jmhai3]

since the new battery is a v2... and the existing 2 batteries in the bank are v1 I was told I would need to update firmware on the v1 batteries. I had updated the firmware when I built the system in December - how do I know what firmware the v1 batteries have? OR do I just update them regardless lol.

I believe the laptop software will tell you and is needed to update.
You can just ask SS/EG4 to send the update dongle if they still offer that service for the v1s.

 

[DwaltonOR]

I believe the laptop software will tell you and is needed to update.
You can just ask SS/EG4 to send the update dongle if they still offer that service for the v1s.

I had done a firmware update in December - I have what is needed to do so (cable and laptop) I was just wondering if I could tell if that update was the update needed lol. But I will check it out. - thanks

 

[Jmhai3]

I had done a firmware update in December - I have what is needed to do so (cable and laptop) I was just wondering if I could tell if that update was the update needed lol. But I will check it out. - thanks

Make sure both v1 and 2 are on the latest since it would not be the first time I heard someone say the new battery they received did not come with the latest update and I read both required an update to fix the communication issue.

 

[EG4TechSolutionsTeam]

I had done a firmware update in December - I have what is needed to do so (cable and laptop) I was just wondering if I could tell if that update was the update needed lol. But I will check it out. - thanks

When you get the battery connected to BMS TEST, on the bottom left you will see what firmware the battery is on. For example, on the following picture you can see that it is version 3.37.

 

[Jmhai3]

I had done a firmware update in December - I have what is needed to do so (cable and laptop) I was just wondering if I could tell if that update was the update needed lol. But I will check it out. - thanks

The website "In Downloads section" will have the latest version available but not sure which is the one that was the fix for communications.
Best just to update both to current and run it.

 

[DwaltonOR]

I’ve updated the firmware on the v1 batteries- and have them slaves to the new host v2 Battery. But the monitor software doesn’t see that I now have 3 batteries. Only showing 100 ah on the app

 

[DwaltonOR]

got it sorted out after reviewing my emails with tech support last week. It was the pin setting on the dip switches to use a different protocol with the older EG4 v1 batteries. All working now

 

[Dskvid]

So I have 6 EG4 lifepowers in a 6 rack in a closed system with the EG4 little black box. Im thinking of getting 3 Echoworthies, same 100ah 48 volt batteries and putting in old 3 eg4 rack. Can i just monitor them seperatly? If I set the invretor to USER mode or something would they just send charge voltage to the bus bars and take power from all the batteries?