EG4 FlexBoss versus EG4 18K in typical grid tied applications

[pgrovetom]

I've been looking through posts, EG4 marketing material and Signature Solar marketing and am struggling to see though all the situations, what does the EG4 FlexBoss architecture provide that the original EG4 18k wouldn't provide that's significant. I see lots of per application threads but, why would EG4 come out with the new ( separate Utility Interface Box like the old PW2 Gateway separated) architecture if for the grid-tie application with 2 batteries, does it add any significant advantages? It appears the architecture needs a new GridBoss device at the Utility Interface somewhat like the old PW2 Gateway that manages the Utility disconnect on power failure. Does it have an open source control interface that would allow other manufacturers. I'm not aware of the Tesla PW2 gateway having an open interface. I haven't seen any readable wiring diagrams ( like for the 18K) that show why for most applications, that function can't be left inside a hybrid inverter. Wasn't that done in part to avoid the old PW2 gateway function by bringing it inside the inverter. It had looked to me that a simple transfer switch could be added if the total disconnect function was desired for firmware updates, service or complete failure. I was wondering if someone could summarize what the new architecture brings for the mainstream mid-size grid-tie applications - if any. At first glance, it looks like adding the GridBoss box just adds more cost and complexity? What am I missing?

Another unrelated question. What have the Chinese tariffs done to the cost of EG4 and its battery costs as seen by the users? One of the clear advantages of EG4 besides a nice feature set was very good pricing for both the 18K and batteries?

 

[Quattrohead]

Flexboss21 has higher output power and surge rating, less connections and no display unless you buy it as an option. It is more suited as a simple standalone device or multiple of them paralleled together with the Gridboss.

18K PV has extra connections and the display built in, slightly less output power. It is more suited as a standalone AIO device.

 

[Brucey]

I've been looking through posts, EG4 marketing material and Signature Solar marketing and am struggling to see though all the situations, what does the EG4 FlexBoss architecture provide that the original EG4 18k wouldn't provide that's significant. I see lots of per application threads but, why would EG4 come out with the new ( separate Utility Interface Box like the old PW2 Gateway separated) architecture if for the grid-tie application with 2 batteries, does it add any significant advantages? It appears the architecture needs a new GridBoss device at the Utility Interface somewhat like the old PW2 Gateway that manages the Utility disconnect on power failure. Does it have an open source control interface that would allow other manufacturers. I'm not aware of the Tesla PW2 gateway having an open interface. I haven't seen any readable wiring diagrams ( like for the 18K) that show why for most applications, that function can't be left inside a hybrid inverter. Wasn't that done in part to avoid the old PW2 gateway function by bringing it inside the inverter. It had looked to me that a simple transfer switch could be added if the total disconnect function was desired for firmware updates, service or complete failure. I was wondering if someone could summarize what the new architecture brings for the mainstream mid-size grid-tie applications - if any. At first glance, it looks like adding the GridBoss box just adds more cost and complexity? What am I missing?

Another unrelated question. What have the Chinese tariffs done to the cost of EG4 and its battery costs as seen by the users? One of the clear advantages of EG4 besides a nice feature set was very good pricing for both the 18K and batteries?

Looks like eg4 is focusing on the flexboss products (21, 18) and their 12000XP (at least in terms of being assembled in USA). Having 50% more LRA for starting tough loads also a big improvement going from 18kpv to flexboss 21. So wouldn't suprise me to see 18kpv being discontinued at some point.

Pretty good comparison except they dont talk about the LRA increase:

FlexBOSS21 vs. 18kPV: Comparing Two of EG4’s Inverter Options - EG4 Electronics

Compare EG4's FlexBOSS21 and 18kPV Hybrid Inverters. Discover enhanced performance, capacity, and cost-saving benefits!

eg4electronics.com

 

[rcht148]

One of the major drawbacks of Flexboss 21/18 standalone (without Gridboss) is the grid passthrough of 90 amps. If say you have a bad couple of days or if one of your strings break down or anything else for that matter, knowing that you can just revert to a full 200 amp grid service is a peace of mind with 18k pv

 

[MattZN]

If you have multiple hybrid inverters, each one only needs 90A (2 AWG) cabling when the GridBoss is present, and you don't need to splice their AC busses because the GridBoss supplies a separate port for each one. Only the GridBoss needs 200A cabling for the service pass-through.

Without the GridBoss, if you have multiple hybrid inverters such as the 18KPV, each one has to be cabled for 200A if you want the full pass-through capability as well as their AC busses needing to be spliced together in parallel.

Then for the inverters... the 18KPV (etc) can operate both off-grid and grid-interactive as a solo device, but it costs more money to be able to do that and is missing critical features required by code in many municipalities (such as a manual bypass). The Flexboss can operate off-grid solo, but needs the GridBoss if you want to operate on-grid. This makes the FlexBoss the cheaper option for off-grid installs, and the FlexBoss + GridBoss combo is the more scaleable option and much easier to wire for grid-interactive installs.

The GridBoss provides all the features required by code in just about every state in the U.S. The 18KPV alone does NOT provide all the required features so to be code-compliant with an 18KPV you need a bunch of additional devices (a manual bypass at a minimum).

Then in terms of inverter capability, just think of the FlexBoss21 as having massively better LRA for starting A/C units and such. It is also quieter. The GridBoss also gives you a lot more for your money than you can get from a solo 18KPV install. With the GridBoss you have a fully certified 200A service entrance, a manual bypass, four smart ports with very nice amperage specs, a Gen input (18KPV also has a Gen), and three hybrid ports allowing you to wire up to three hybrid inverters without having to build AC splices.

Those are the major differences.

--

Most people won't need more than one inverter regardless, so you wouldn't have to splice AC busses... but that also limits your scaleability if you want to add to your system later on, with an 18KPV. If you go with the GridBoss + FlexBoss combo, wiring in additional scaleability later is much, much easier.

Working with 3/0 copper or 4/0 SER (200A) cable is very labor intensive. They are huge cables that don't want to bend and it is really easy to mess things up or leave stresses on the cables going into the lugs, etc. Not to mention getting the lug torques correct given that 3/0 and 4/0 lug torque specs tend to be north of 200 in-lb. The GridBoss vastly reduces the work you have to do with these crazy big cables. Dealing with the smaller 2 AWG cabling (90A) to the inverters is far easier. The inverter cabling in general is far easier and the inverters can be placed well away from the service entrance if desired.

My take (now the proud owner of a DIY'd operational GridBoss + FlexBoss21 + Batteries + AC coupled solar combo, with DC solar on the way... running my whole house).

-Matt

 

[Tommytwotone]

If you have multiple hybrid inverters, each one only needs 90A (2 AWG) cabling when the GridBoss is present, and you don't need to splice their AC busses because the GridBoss supplies a separate port for each one. Only the GridBoss needs 200A cabling for the service pass-through.

Without the GridBoss, if you have multiple hybrid inverters such as the 18KPV, each one has to be cabled for 200A if you want the full pass-through capability as well as their AC busses needing to be spliced together in parallel.

Then for the inverters... the 18KPV (etc) can operate both off-grid and grid-interactive as a solo device, but it costs more money to be able to do that and is missing critical features required by code in many municipalities (such as a manual bypass). The Flexboss can operate off-grid solo, but needs the GridBoss if you want to operate on-grid. This makes the FlexBoss the cheaper option for off-grid installs, and the FlexBoss + GridBoss combo is the more scaleable option and much easier to wire for grid-interactive installs.

The GridBoss provides all the features required by code in just about every state in the U.S. The 18KPV alone does NOT provide all the required features so to be code-compliant with an 18KPV you need a bunch of additional devices (a manual bypass at a minimum).

Then in terms of inverter capability, just think of the FlexBoss21 as having massively better LRA for starting A/C units and such. It is also quieter. The GridBoss also gives you a lot more for your money than you can get from a solo 18KPV install. With the GridBoss you have a fully certified 200A service entrance, a manual bypass, four smart ports with very nice amperage specs, a Gen input (18KPV also has a Gen), and three hybrid ports allowing you to wire up to three hybrid inverters without having to build AC splices.

Those are the major differences.

--

Most people won't need more than one inverter regardless, so you wouldn't have to splice AC busses... but that also limits your scaleability if you want to add to your system later on, with an 18KPV. If you go with the GridBoss + FlexBoss combo, wiring in additional scaleability later is much, much easier.

Working with 3/0 copper or 4/0 SER (200A) cable is very labor intensive. They are huge cables that don't want to bend and it is really easy to mess things up or leave stresses on the cables going into the lugs, etc. Not to mention getting the lug torques correct given that 3/0 and 4/0 lug torque specs tend to be north of 200 in-lb. The GridBoss vastly reduces the work you have to do with these crazy big cables. Dealing with the smaller 2 AWG cabling (90A) to the inverters is far easier. The inverter cabling in general is far easier and the inverters can be placed well away from the service entrance if desired.

My take (now the proud owner of a DIY'd operational GridBoss + FlexBoss21 + Batteries + AC coupled solar combo, with DC solar on the way... running my whole house).

-Matt

Matt are you running a v1 system or v2?