EG4 Grid Boss Flex Boss during grid issue or outage

[Tommytwotone]

Does anyone have an EG4 Gridboss Flexboss or 18kpv and has experienced power outages or grid flicker?

We just had a grid issue from the line winds the other day.

With 77% SOC and running off inverters with no PV (night), the power flickered (visibly). I don't understand that, as we were powering off inverters.

Even though the inverters had been powering the loads fine, the system put the inverters into standby and powered the house off from the grid when the grid became unstable.

If I were programming this, I would almost do it the exact opposite. If the grid shows voltage or Hz issues, it effectively goes into off-grid mode.

Any ideas? Could it be a setting somewhere? What am I missing?

 

[Redpineapple]

When your grid boss is on, do you have a light that says grid? It should say grid when you have power.

 

[Tommytwotone]

Yes. The grid light is on when grid is present.

My issue is that grid was not being reliable and rather than isolating from grid, which is what I would want or think should happen, it turned the inverters off and relied on grid. IE it put the inverters into standby.

The logic in the firmware seems to be making a 180 degree decision vs what I would think it should.

I am wondering if others have experience with power outages or deviant grid voltage/hz and how their systems are "reacting" to those conditions.

Or if someone can explain the firmware logic for what it is doing or maybe any settings that relate to how it decides what to do.

 

[Redpineapple]

Do you have a manual disconnect upstream from your Gridboss where you can simulate an outage?

Attach a picture of your working mode for your flexboss please.

 

[Tommytwotone]

Do you have a manual disconnect upstream from your Gridboss where you can simulate an outage?

Attach a picture of your working mode for your flexboss please.

In my instance the Gridboss has an Eaton 200 amp main in it. As the GB has no way to determine line side voltage on that breaker I could simulate an outage there or upstream at the knife blade.

I am not opposed to testing I just do not have a reason to test as I know what it did when grid was an issue and looking back on the data I know how the system behaved at start up where a similar circumstance existed (inverters on grid down) as you power grid after the inverters come up.

Same behavior in those instances so I am assuming it is a firmware issue or maybe a better way to say it is a firmware choice. I just do not get why or how it should work in an outage so as to avoid power flicker, dropped power and the system relying on grid when grid proves to be unreliable and events are logged W016 and W017 to that end.

If you have a theory I am all ears.

I am in Self Consumption mode.

 

[Redpineapple]

Can you share the data you saw? Was it an abnormal state and did it ever drop completely?

 

[Tommytwotone]

Can you share the data you saw? Was it an abnormal state and did it ever drop completely?

Power flickered ie went off on off on quickly. The grid did not drop that I know as, due to the storm, we manually disconnected from the grid so as to avoid the on/off flicker issue we were seeing.

The inverters were put in standby by the firmware and the Grid Boss powered load from grid until we opened the grid breaker.

I am not sure what you mean by abnormal state. It was in standby.

In part I am asking here if that is what is normal. Grid goes out even briefly and the system puts the inverters in standby? That seems abnormal to me but it may be as the firmware is programmed,

Prior to grid issues it was fine.

 

[Redpineapple]

I can’t speak to the logic on what the Gridboss does when it detects an abnormal state in the grid but I would assume it would prioritize the inverter and battery if it had issues.

Can you screen shot your application settings and working mode on the inverter?

Some of the settings weren’t very helpful or described well until I found the eg4 monitor center manual - see attached.

Please note that the manual is written for the old menu layout (not the new one). Going to the old menu and making changes, saving the, and going back to the new menu might help explain the settings here.

The 2 lines I suggest looking at are as follows.

Power Backup - Enable
Off Grid Mode - Disable

 

[Tommytwotone]

I can’t speak to the logic on what the Gridboss does when it detects an abnormal state in the grid but I would assume it would prioritize the inverter and battery if it had issues.

Can you screen shot your application settings and working mode on the inverter?

Some of the settings weren’t very helpful or described well until I found the eg4 monitor center manual - see attached.

Please note that the manual is written for the old menu layout (not the new one). Going to the old menu and making changes, saving the, and going back to the new menu might help explain the settings here.

The 2 lines I suggest looking at are as follows.

Power Backup - Enable
Off Grid Mode - Disable

Yes the power backup is enabled. Good point to suggest checking though sometimes a setting can get “bumped”.

As we are net metering off grid is disabled but I don’t think I mentioned the net metering.

The main issue here is what is the logic doing. It is almost as if the firmware programmer just inserted a 1 vs a 0 in the code and we went left vs right.

I agree it should disconnect from grid during an abnormality with grid vs going to grid that’s my question.

I am hoping some 18kpv folks can enlighten on, or Flexboss folks who have frequent grid issues, as to what they have seen happen.

Is this normal on older firmware?

 

[skimandan]

Your experience sounds frustrating.

This logic seems very difficult to determine.

How does the gridboss know the grid WILL BE unreliable in the future? How does it determine when grid will be reliable?

How do you know the grid will be unreliable in the future?

Seems best to keep the logic to grid on/off.

 

[Tommytwotone]

Your experience sounds frustrating.

This logic seems very difficult to determine.

How does the gridboss know the grid WILL BE unreliable in the future? How does it determine when grid will be reliable?

How do you know the grid will be unreliable in the future?

Seems best to keep the logic to grid on/off.

I just wonder why it chooses to shut the inverters off if grid has issues.

If grid shuts off to the extent you have a notice why would you shut the inverters off?

An hvac system has a five minute time out to allow fluid to dissipate from areas they should not be to avoid damage whenever it looses power. Even for a very short period.

In this instance we were powering off batteries so if you have the SOC to support it why not rub off inverters/batteries for a period of say 5 min then switch back to a normal state. Like a generator does.

That aside how should it work according to the current firmware? Us there a setting to modify or control how it works?

Have others experienced power outages and what is that experience.

If a bad storm is coming should you change your system, preemptively shut of grid?

 

[RARankin]

I see the same thing with my system.

Since the inverter must match the voltage/frequency of the grid relay is closed my guess is the dip/blink is dropping to whatever is the lower threshold of the range then opening that relay. When the power stabilizes it does its normal “enable grid” routine that seems to include using the grid for a time?

Would be nice if the switch back to grid after outage delay could be set by the user.

 

[Tommytwotone]

I see the same thing with my system.

Since the inverter must match the voltage/frequency of the grid relay is closed my guess is the dip/blink is dropping to whatever is the lower threshold of the range then opening that relay. When the power stabilizes it does its normal “enable grid” routine that seems to include using the grid for a time?

Would be nice if the switch back to grid after outage delay could be set by the user.

You have seen it go through power outages and behave this way I assume?

So your thought is if the system sees a drop or dip in voltage it goes into the start up grid procedure(ie what it is programmed to do)?

 

[RARankin]

Yes, mine has done when there are blips during thunderstorms. It'll switch off the grid when it sees the voltage/freq drop, then quickly re-enables grid when it sees its back but then it uses it rather than the batteries it was on before the blip. Then, a few minutes later, assuming no further blips it'll go back to using battery.

The ability to extend that switch back time would help out. I don't fully understand the "swap to grid after it becomes available again", seems counter intuitive, but maybe @EG4TechSolutionsTeam can shine some light on it. I've not tried this but if you enable "off-grid" mode and then disable it does it also swap to using grid for a bit?

 

[Tommytwotone]

Yes, mine has done when there are blips during thunderstorms. It'll switch off the grid when it sees the voltage/freq drop, then quickly re-enables grid when it sees its back but then it uses it rather than the batteries it was on before the blip. Then, a few minutes later, assuming no further blips it'll go back to using battery.

The ability to extend that switch back time would help out. I don't fully understand the "swap to grid after it becomes available again", seems counter intuitive, but maybe @EG4TechSolutionsTeam can shine some light on it. I've not tried this but if you enable "off-grid" mode and then disable it does it also swap to using grid for a bit?

Thank you! Knowing that you experiencing the same firmware operation. It just seems like an odd way to do it at least to me so confirming is helpful.

 

[Chuck2]

Most generators have this as a "return to source" delay that is commonly set at 10 minutes but is usually user programmable.

I have a design utilizing a few of these GB units that I plan to install soon and had been wondering about this exact scenario myself. Hopefully they will offer a way for the user to select whether or not they want the unit to continue punishing their house with dirty power, or kick over to battery.

Sounds like otherwise, throwing the disconnects manually is the only way to stop the lunacy. Surely with the GB seeing everything happening the logic can be employed to simply wait for a specified amount of time before simply going welp..... power's back AGAIN..... for the 3rd time in as many seconds and just keep punishing itself and the house over and over with perfectly good batteries just sitting at idle.

 

[nwbee]

My GB and FB setup does the same thing. I can replicate it by turning off the main breaker on the GB and turning it back on. When I do that, the inverter light starts flashing and the battery is off for a while. My concern is if the power flickers and then goes off, I suspect I will lose all power for that time. I have to say that I am pretty disappointed with the settings and documentation on these units. I am also having an issue where the inverter flashes randomly when I set the battery to SOC mode. I have to leave it on voltage for i to work properly.

 

[Zerog2k]

+1 would like to see a configurable delay for return to grid after grid is considered "stable".
Had a bunch of thunderstorms here in North Texas this weekend, and had what I'm guessing was a strike nearby, taking out a neighbors transformer with it. The power flickered in and out several times over the course of a minute. Would love a "hold off timer" that would wait for things to be stable in order to minimize the back and forth switching of power to/from grid, which of course causes multiple flickers inside the house, and can play havoc with electronics, etc.

 

[Redpineapple]

@EG4TechSolutionsTeam can you add this to the suggestion box?

 

[Quattrohead]

+1 would like to see a configurable delay for return to grid after grid is considered "stable".

Settings should be in

System Grid Connect Setting​

 

[Tommytwotone]

+1 would like to see a configurable delay for return to grid after grid is considered "stable".
Had a bunch of thunderstorms here in North Texas this weekend, and had what I'm guessing was a strike nearby, taking out a neighbors transformer with it. The power flickered in and out several times over the course of a minute. Would love a "hold off timer" that would wait for things to be stable in order to minimize the back and forth switching of power to/from grid, which of course causes multiple flickers inside the house, and can play havoc with electronics, etc.

My GB and FB setup does the same thing. I can replicate it by turning off the main breaker on the GB and turning it back on. When I do that, the inverter light starts flashing and the battery is off for a while. My concern is if the power flickers and then goes off, I suspect I will lose all power for that time. I have to say that I am pretty disappointed with the settings and documentation on these units. I am also having an issue where the inverter flashes randomly when I set the battery to SOC mode. I have to leave it on voltage for i to work properly.

Look at data history and it tells you what the system status is.

Sadly what I see is that when grid tied, at least with net metering, it opts to default to powering from grid and holds the inverters out for 5 min or some period like that. Then it puts the inverters back in.

I will say it did seem like it switched over to inverters with the grid down so if the power is out I THINK I would have power but it would shut off on both ends.

I have an email into EG4 from what almost a month ago and crickets. I will email again and ask about the suggestion box at a minimum.

 

[Tommytwotone]

Settings should be in

System Grid Connect Setting​

Looking at the system I believe those settings are only available on the installer monitor/portal correct?

Mine are set to 300s. With that do you have any idea on what the system should when grid goes outside of parameters even if for a few MS? Should it do as asked above and hold grid off or will it instead go to a status of Standby?

 

[nwbee]

Looking at the system I believe those settings are only available on the installer monitor/portal correct?

Mine are set to 300s. With that do you have any idea on what the system should when grid goes outside of parameters even if for a few MS? Should it do as asked above and hold grid off or will it instead go to a status of Standby?

How do I get access to that? I am the installer of my own system.

 

[Tommytwotone]

How do I get access to that? I am the installer of my own system.

Who did you purchase your system through?

 

[RARankin]

Yeah, I'd really quite enjoy that extra access too. I installed my own as well.