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EG4 GridBOSS Deep Dive

robby said:
But all that article is saying is that Lumin will at some point in the future be supported by the 18Kpv.
Why would anyone buy both a Grid Boss and a Lumin Smart Panel?
They would not really work together.

This is the Direct Link
https://eg4electronics.com/eg4s-monitoring-to-be-integrated-with-lumin-smart-panel/
Click to expand...
Lumin is like 16 breakers, as well as the ability to do a panel a long distance from the inverter, if you want the true "SPAN experience" the gridboss will only make you 50% happy or less
 
On_The_Road said:
Thank you for the reply. So, in the case of multiple hybrid inverters - each inverter would have to have it's own Big Ugly Switch?

I found this on the poco's requirements for batteries....does the Gridboss ATS meet these requirements?

POCO Reqs....

- All inverters must be UL1741 compliant. The POCO verifies this functionality with the same procedure currently used for solar PV installations installed without a battery system.

- The Automatic Transfer Switches must be an Open Transition Transfer (OTT) Switch that operates in a Break-Before-Make manner, which must be employed to switch over from utility power to the BESS device to serve local loads. Spec sheets that confirm this information must be provided to the POCO

- If the Energy Management System/BESS/inverters have special functionalities (such as singledirectional power flow on certain circuits, communication lines, etc.), these functions, and all other details concerning the battery system’s operation must be clearly indicated on the single-line diagram.

The Automatic Transfer Switches must be mechanically interlocked. Spec sheets that confirm this information must be provided to the POCO, along with a picture of the switches for verification purposes.
Click to expand...
technically the "big ugly switch" would only be 100A less than 1/3 the size and 1/3 the price of a 200A switch.
so a "1/3 as big and ugly switch" on each
 
Could we make the same case for a GridBoss-Offgrid for the 6000xp and 12000xp inverters? Will this be the next product from EG4?

The fact that they just released the 12000xp suggests to me that the answer will be no.
 
robby said:
Why would anyone buy both a Grid Boss and a Lumin Smart Panel?
They would not really work together.
Click to expand...
The Lumin and GridBoss functionality overlap but are not the same.

The primary function of a MID (The GridBOSS) is to be the cenral spot for grid isolation in the event of the grid going down. Furthermore, the isolation has to be part of the UL1741 certification. Lumin does not have that capability.

The GridBoss is also able to properly manage AC Coupled inverters and Generators. I don't know what capabilities Lumin has in this space.

Where the GridBOSS and Lumin overlap is in the smart ports. If the functionality and quantity of the GridBOSS smart ports are sufficient, you might not buy a Lumin. If you need more than the GridBOSS offers, Lumin might be an option.
 
I watched the YouTube videos on GridBoss and I do not fully understand how the 125Amp Gen port works.

My assumptions (correct me if wrong please) :

1. Grid goes offline
2. GridBoss detects loss of grid, disconnects relay from grid, and allows inverter to become grid forming.
3. So lets say it is cloudy and the batteries deplete. Generator is activated on the 125 Amp Gen port.
4. Relay to the grid is still open circuit, Inverter is still running and thinks grid is now back online, but AC is actually from the Generator.
5. So now we have the generator online and inverter becomes non grid forming but interacting with the Generator waveform.
6. If the generator can fully support the loads, I suppose power will go to through the inverter circuit to recharge batteries (maybe - is that how it works?

I am confused about how generator power above which the home is using can be fed through the inverter for charging batteries.

There was mention about using a Chargeverter instead of the generator port for battery charging. I am thinking that would be a safer option if you only have a small generator like what I have.

Thoughts ? Just wondering if I understand how the generator port actually integrates with everything.
 
RDuke said:
4. Relay to the grid is still open circuit, Inverter is still running and thinks grid is now back online, but AC is actually from the Generator.
Click to expand...
No. The GridBOSS and the inverters are an integrated system. The *system* knows the difference between the AC comming from the grid and the AC coming from the Generator. When the grid comes back the *system* will switch back
RDuke said:
There was mention about using a Chargeverter instead of the generator port for battery charging. I am thinking that would be a safer option if you only have a small generator like what I have.
Click to expand...
Generally speaking, if the generator is small, a chargeverter is a better way to go. Imagine you have a couple of FlexBOSS 21s powering 15K of loads..... trying to switch that load over to a 6K generator is not going to be very successful.
 
RDuke said:
So now we have the generator online and inverter becomes non grid forming but interacting with the Generator waveform.
Click to expand...
Correct.

This is why inverters don't like dirty generator waveforms. They can be hard to follow. The EG4 inverters are relatively accepting of noise from generators but it is best to select an inverter that is going to provide clean power.


RDuke said:
6. If the generator can fully support the loads, I suppose power will go to through the inverter circuit to recharge batteries (maybe - is that how it works?
Click to expand...
Yes. That is how it works. It is also why the ideal solution would be to have a generator that is large enough to drive the loads and charge the batteries. This would allow the batteries to be quickly charged and the generator to shut down. However, for some of the whole house systems we are discussing, that could be a pretty large generator.

Note that with the GridBOSS, the smart ports can be used to mitigate this problem.
 
trad said:
Could we make the same case for a GridBoss-Offgrid for the 6000xp and 12000xp inverters? Will this be the next product from EG4?

The fact that they just released the 12000xp suggests to me that the answer will be no.
Click to expand...
There's a whole analysis on the forum, either on this thread or another one, about why GridBoss likely needs physical refactoring to make sense for off-grid AIO
 
On_The_Road said:
The Poco is a peach. They won't let you sell back if you're over 10kw of inverter and they won't take the export / inverter limit letters. It has to be fixed to 10kw at EG4 for the Flexboss or 18kpv leaving me with the 12kpv option.
Click to expand...
the wording here matters: you have "a 10kw export limit unit modified by the manufacturer with the certification letter provided"
let us know who they are and we can call them if needed
 
trad said:
Could we make the same case for a GridBoss-Offgrid for the 6000xp and 12000xp inverters? Will this be the next product from EG4?

The fact that they just released the 12000xp suggests to me that the answer will be no.
Click to expand...
Off-Grid inverters don't back feed to the grid so the problem set for them is very different than for Hybrid inverters. What aspects/features of the Gridboss would be beneficial in the Off-Grid inverter space? (I am not arguing, I am just interested in exploring what is needed by folks)
 
Folks,
EG4 will be publishing the following diagram on their website within a few days, but they have given me permission to share it early.
1731623498402.png


Notice the part I highlighted with the purple dashed line. It shows a way to deal with POCOs that insist on production meters and/or disconnects.
(I have asked for a version that shows only one inverter. I will provide it if I get it. However, I suspect it will be the same thing but without the combiner boxes.)
 
FilterGuy said:
Off-Grid inverters don't back feed to the grid so the problem set for them is very different than for Hybrid inverters. What aspects/features of the Gridboss would be beneficial in the Off-Grid inverter space? (I am not arguing, I am just interested in exploring what is needed by folks)
Click to expand...
Yes, making the current Gridboss support the off-grid inverters won't make sense.

However having a MID between the meter and the panel could help off-gridders too. Especially those who have complex needs and multiple inverters.
 
EG4 Electronics James said:
the wording here matters: you have "a 10kw export limit unit modified by the manufacturer with the certification letter provided"
let us know who they are and we can call them if needed
Click to expand...
They won't take a letter and software limits - it has to be firmware and likely would have to leave EG4's facility with the limit imposed.

I have been talking with Colton about it but the poco hasn't said no officially.

Wording from the poco rep I have been chatting with....

"It also appears to be a software limit, which is typically not allowed as well."
"

"Being that this is an export limit, and not a inverter output limit, I would not expect this to be allowable under the RNR program. It also appears to be a software limit, which is typically not allowed as well."
 
On_The_Road said:
They won't take a letter and software limits - it has to be firmware and likely would have to leave EG4's facility with the limit imposed.
Click to expand...
The EG4 monitor program has certain functions that only EG4 and Distributors have access too because of the POCO requirements.
On request, EG4 can remotely set an export limit in the *firmware* that the user can not un-do. (If the user can undo it, the utilities will not accept it). EG4 will then send a letter to certifying the limit has been set. This has be in place for a while and POCOs have accepted it.

Note that the system still allows self-consumption of the full capability of the inverter. The limit is only on the amount exported to the grid.

There are ways to limit the total production of the inverter, but I am not aware of POCOs requiring that.

As James said, call EG4 if the Utility is pushing back. They will try to help.
 
FilterGuy said:
Folks,
EG4 will be publishing the following diagram on their website within a few days, but they have given me permission to share it early.
View attachment 256000


Notice the part I highlighted with the purple dashed line. It shows a way to deal with POCOs that insist on production meters and/or disconnects.
(I have asked for a version that shows only one inverter. I will provide it if I get it. However, I suspect it will be the same thing but without the combiner boxes.)
Click to expand...
Adding the combiner panels etc really kills the simpleness of the GridBOSS. My provider requires a PV Production Meter for anything over 10kw, hoping mine will allow the Grid 200 / PV Production Meter / breaker / Utility Meter. Save me from adding a bunch of wall art.
 
TacoMeat said:
Adding the combiner panels etc really kills the simpleness of the GridBOSS
Click to expand...
yup, the POCO requirements can be a real PITA. Like I said in a previous post, EG4 is very aware of the pain and I expect to see better ways of addressing the requirements over time.
 
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