James Showalter
CEO, EG4 Electronics, Signature Solar founder
You have to have a bypass and a fused knife disconnect, meter-main hasn't ever passed for our installers
EG4 GridBOSS Deep Dive
- Thread starter FilterGuy
- Start date
famtraveler
New Member
Hi all. I have a stand alone meter that sits between 2 200A service panels. I am backing up one service panel with an existing Enphase system, and I am now looking to back up the second service panel with PV, 12kpv, PowerPro and Grid Boss.
Because there is a 200A disconnect on the service panel that will serve as the backed up loads panel for GridBoss purposes, is it necessary to place a second disconnect after the meter but before the GridBoss Grid connection? I would assume yes, but want to confirm.
Thx.
Because there is a 200A disconnect on the service panel that will serve as the backed up loads panel for GridBoss purposes, is it necessary to place a second disconnect after the meter but before the GridBoss Grid connection? I would assume yes, but want to confirm.
Thx.
FilterGuy
Solar Engineering Consultant - EG4 and Consumers
The GridBOSS is service entrance rated so it should not have to have a separate grid disconnect. However, you should check with your POCO and AHJ. They sometimes have requirements over and above what the NEC would require.
dougbert
Solar Wizard
I have been referring to that because Square D ads have been using that
I installed a 125amp CSED on my house 28 years ago, but that is not what it was called then
here is the one I am considering now that uses the term
Square D Homeline 150 Amp 8-Space 16-Circuit Outdoor Ring-Type Surface Mount Solar-Ready Main Breaker Plug-On Neutral CSED SC816F150PS - The Home Depot
Update your commercial power distribution system with Square D Homeline Outdoor RingType Surface Mount SolarReady Main Breaker PlugOn Neutral CSED.
www.homedepot.com
I have a meter outside with no exterior disconnect till the 200a house panel.... can I install gridboss indoors so the 200amp eaton breaker disconnect will be indoors? Also the rsd switch would be out doors right next to the meter
spiker611
New Member
This is a good question for your utility / inspector.
chill633
Solar Wizard
Service Disconnect/Emergency Disconnect (NEC 230.85) is supposed to be outside. The purpose is for emergency first responders to be able to quickly cut power.
If the GridBOSS is acting as that, then it needs to be outside. If you have a separate SD/ED installed outside, then you don't need the Eaton breaker in the GB, which is why it is marked as "optional" in the maual. Remember, ground and neutral is bonded at the first point of disconnect and nowhere else, so that means SD/ED.
@FilterGuy is there output on the load port of the inverter (can i output to another panel or an EV outlet from there?)
Adam De Lay
Solar Wizard
Yes there's still output to the load terminals on the flexboss.
@Adam De Lay : you said flexboss so can I assume the same for the Eg18 and eg12 ? so this output wont be recorded by the production meter ?
thank you
chill633
Solar Wizard
chill633
Solar Wizard
No.
Adam De Lay
Solar Wizard
The load port on any inverter used to connect to the gridboss remains active. The comment in the manual is explaining how you wire up the gridboss because all your power and wiring should flow from the AC IN -> Gridboss, but it doesn't disable the load port on the inverter.
DIYrich
Solar Wizard
If you use the Load port, it would have to be the grid forming inverter (or pass through from a grid forming inverter or the grid), and go into the Grid port of the next inverter.
Load (inverter 1) -> Grid (Inverter 2) is how they can be serialized.
chill633
Solar Wizard
Thank you. That's...confusing. I assume he's talking about the inverter when saying "they're shorted together". So, essentially a double lug if hooked up like that?
Adam De Lay
Solar Wizard
Yes, when he was talking about "shorted together" he was talking about the AC Output and AC Input connection. So they're both connected together and they would share the output capability.
So if you wanted to, you could still hook up a load to the output of the inverter, but that could start getting messy especially if you have the gridboss and multiple inverters in play. By "messy" I mean that your loads wouldn't be balanced across all connected inverters.
Adam De Lay
Solar Wizard
Yeah it would be the same for the 18kPV or 12kPV.
The data would still be tracked because it's still being powered by the inverter. It might just be tracked differently because it's coming off the load port in a paralleled environment vs the AC IN port.
EatonPV
New Member
My understanding is that you can have only one GridBoss and up to three hybrid inverters in your entire setup. The GridBoss can separate from the inverter and batteries but only one boss in the office.
EatonPV
New Member
The manual indicates only copper connections throughout the GridBoss. I currently have alumninm from the meeter into the main panel and to a 100A sub panel. I heard in an interview with an EG4 production engineer that said they "didn't have a problem with alumninum" but the 200A Eaton breaker would not fit some alumnimum conductor sizes. As I see it I have a couple of options.
- Opotion 1: Install my existing 200A breaker in a separate box then convert to coper and forego the GridBoss main breaker, connecting directly to the lugs. I would also need to convert back to aluminum to connect to the existing sub panel located in another building. Can I just use a properly sized 2-port multi-tap insulated connector to do this? Would I need to enclose this in another box or could I secure it behind drywall? If I go this route would the ground/common bond move to the first box with the single 200A breaker rather than in the GridBoss?
- Option 2: Install my existing 200A (Square D) breaker into the GridBoss and see what happens. I'm not worried about passing an inspection. In my area homeowners are allowed to work on almost anything without a permit or inspection (except the connection to the pole and septic tanks).
- Option 3: See if the alumninm conductor will completely fit in the recommended Eaton breaker. If so
, Im sure nothing will start smoking.... right?
FilterGuy
Solar Engineering Consultant - EG4 and Consumers
According to a video from EG4, the issue with using aluminum is not that the connectors can't handle aluminum, it is that the connector size would have to be too large.The manual indicates only copper connections throughout the GridBoss. I currently have alumninm from the meeter into the main panel and to a 100A sub panel. I heard in an interview with an EG4 production engineer that said they "didn't have a problem with alumninum" but the 200A Eaton breaker would not fit some alumnimum conductor sizes. As I see it I have a couple of options.
- Opotion 1: Install my existing 200A breaker in a separate box then convert to coper and forego the GridBoss main breaker, connecting directly to the lugs. I would also need to convert back to aluminum to connect to the existing sub panel located in another building. Can I just use a properly sized 2-port multi-tap insulated connector to do this? Would I need to enclose this in another box or could I secure it behind drywall? If I go this route would the ground/common bond move to the first box with the single 200A breaker rather than in the GridBoss?
- Option 2: Install my existing 200A (Square D) breaker into the GridBoss and see what happens. I'm not worried about passing an inspection. In my area homeowners are allowed to work on almost anything without a permit or inspection (except the connection to the pole and septic tanks).
Any thoughts? Let me know if I am missing something. Sorry for the long post. Thank you.
- Option 3: See if the alumninm conductor will completely fit in the recommended Eaton breaker. If so
What electricians will typically do in this situation is transition to a short length of copper using Polaris Connectors.
Trav’s tinkering
New Member
My POCO (Jay County REMC) requires a lockable “interconnection disconnect switch” outside, next to the meter.
I was hoping the grid boss would qualify, but the POCO engineer said the disconnect switch needs to be the type that can be opened and visually see the contact points of the switch are disconnected/connected,
a normal breaker style disconnect is not sufficient.
my meter is mounted to the outside wall of my house, with no disconnect between the meter and panel inside.
i’m wondering if I install a blade style fused disconnect switch, does that eliminates the need to buy the 200 amp breaker for the gridboss?
On a sidenote, I don’t know how common it is for a POCO to have this requirement? But if it is common, it seems like a sensible thing to offer as an add-on option for the GridBoss, Beings it’s marketed as the only thing you need between your meter and service panel…
I was hoping the grid boss would qualify, but the POCO engineer said the disconnect switch needs to be the type that can be opened and visually see the contact points of the switch are disconnected/connected,
a normal breaker style disconnect is not sufficient.
my meter is mounted to the outside wall of my house, with no disconnect between the meter and panel inside.
i’m wondering if I install a blade style fused disconnect switch, does that eliminates the need to buy the 200 amp breaker for the gridboss?
On a sidenote, I don’t know how common it is for a POCO to have this requirement? But if it is common, it seems like a sensible thing to offer as an add-on option for the GridBoss, Beings it’s marketed as the only thing you need between your meter and service panel…
Quattrohead
100% off grid - EG4 Electronics
Do they still go around town with a horse and cart reading the meters?
FilterGuy
Solar Engineering Consultant - EG4 and Consumers
Yup....The POCOs are slow to change. They require a LOT of things that are not in the NEC. If there was even a slight need for the big ugly 'visual' disconnect in order to be safe, it would be in the NEC.
Trav’s tinkering
New Member
No, but he got a little hot under the collar when I tried to explain that according to EG4 the gridboss was all I needed between the meter and service panel. Said you can never be completely sure it’s disconnected if you can’t physically see it.
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