EG4 GridBOSS MID Canada

[SolarGear]

Hey Guys

Reaching out to the follow Canadians for some insight into the EG4 GridBOSS MID. As far as I understand, Interlock devices are prohibited in Canada, at least when it comes to the main electrical panel. Does anyone see an issue with the GridBOSS manual bypass? Perhaps EG4 could do a revision that would be acceptable to pass inspections in Canada?

 

[noobie]

There's a thread on their forum that answers some questions from a live stream.
I'm hoping I'm allowed to link to it from here

Interview with EG4: Talking All About the GridBOSS & FlexBOS...

In case you missed it, here's a link to an interview I had with James Showalter, EG4 Founder and Owner, and Markus Jackson, Director of Product Manage...

forum.eg4electronics.com

In the PDF, it says they can't be service entrance rated here.
I'm not well versed in what is and isn't allowed, but it says they are working on some sort of certification for Canada.
It sounds like it's not allowed to go between the meter and main panel though I think?

 

[DirkT]

I see this response in the PDF from Jared at EG4, "We cannot be service entrance rated in Canada, but we are waiting for the equivalent of UL 67 testing to be completed so that we can be installed in Canada."

My question would be, if the Gridboss is installed behind the meter is it still considered the 'service entrance', or is the meter the 'service entrance'? If one were not allowed to install the Gridboss behind the meter, where would you install it?

 

[noobie]

Anyone find out anything about this yet?
I see a Canadian distributor is selling these now

https://solarpowerstore.ca/collections/eg4/products/eg4-gridboss-mid-200a-service-entrance

BUT if it has no proper certification, then what's the point in selling it here?

Perhaps it's now rated to be used? Or can it be used some other way other than the "service entrance" location?

 

[jgriffin]

Anyone find out anything about this yet?
I see a Canadian distributor is selling these now

https://solarpowerstore.ca/collections/eg4/products/eg4-gridboss-mid-200a-service-entrance

BUT if it has no proper certification, then what's the point in selling it here?

Perhaps it's now rated to be used? Or can it be used some other way other than the "service entrance" location?

I had some PV Disconnects in a kit from them that were not usable on my grid tie. Inspector at the time was happy with me using the PV Disconnect on the Fronius Inverter instead. Even though it would have been a bit more to ship, I really should have gone with Solacity, they were so great to deal with! I saved a few pennies going with SolarPowerStore, but I almost get a consulting kind of vibe from them, vs Solacity who really knew the products inside and out. I did manage to get some things from them to complete my setup, very happy.

On the AC side of things, I had a heck of a time finding service rated Nema 3R equipment for a 60A circuit, I ended up having to derate 100A fusible switches. My array was 100' away from the panel so I had to go with #2 Aluminum Teck, which was too large of conductor for a bunch of 60A stuff. #4 wasn't quite enough, but would have made sizing everything easier. If this flexboss/gridboss thing ends up working out ok with codes, could be a great value.

My local utility had a list of approved inverters as well, so I'm not sure if that happens in other places or not. But initially, I had to build my systems based on if it was an approved grid tie inverter or not.

 

[SolarGear]

I had some PV Disconnects in a kit from them that were not usable on my grid tie. Inspector at the time was happy with me using the PV Disconnect on the Fronius Inverter instead. Even though it would have been a bit more to ship, I really should have gone with Solacity, they were so great to deal with! I saved a few pennies going with SolarPowerStore, but I almost get a consulting kind of vibe from them, vs Solacity who really knew the products inside and out. I did manage to get some things from them to complete my setup, very happy.

On the AC side of things, I had a heck of a time finding service rated Nema 3R equipment for a 60A circuit, I ended up having to derate 100A fusible switches. My array was 100' away from the panel so I had to go with #2 Aluminum Teck, which was too large of conductor for a bunch of 60A stuff. #4 wasn't quite enough, but would have made sizing everything easier. If this flexboss/gridboss thing ends up working out ok with codes, could be a great value.

My local utility had a list of approved inverters as well, so I'm not sure if that happens in other places or not. But initially, I had to build my systems based on if it was an approved grid tie inverter or not.

Are you in Canada? Speaking strictly for Canadians.......

The rules are super strict here and we are always utilizing the latest CEC Electrical code. My advice for anyone doing a DIY installation is to grab a copy of the latest CEC and read all sections/references to renewable energy, make sure to understand it before proceeding to do any work. I see no reason why an inspector would not approve an inverter not on "their" list. There is no way they tested every one of them, besides, it reeks of kickbacks! It comes down to a few basic items:

• Most equipment must be CSA approved
  • Anything the inspector would easily see
  • Don't try to cheap out and buy something from Amazon
• For equipment lacking CSA approval, a UL listing could replace it
  • A good example would be Inverter + Battery MUST be UL9540 certified as a pair! Number 1 reason for people not getting approvals in Canada and being stuck with a boatload of equipment that becomes, essentially, a paperweight
    • There have been instances of people getting approval without this, but it's rare and I think it's due to the lack of knowledge/not being up to date/lack of understanding of the CEC code.
• Where CSA or UL is not an option, it could go for a SPE-1000 field approval which would "allow" is to be used
• DONT CHEAP OUT ON A SOLAR SITE PLAN! This clearly outlays where equipment will be placed on the property, the type of equipment used and the accompanying certificates for CSA/UL approvals.
• Be friendly with your electrical store, they come with a wealth of knowledge. Let them know what you are doing, they are most of them are happy to guide you.....
• Some online stores don't do installations, let alone know the basics of the electrical code. Once again, the CEC handbook will give you a wealth of knowledge
• If you are not comfortable doing something, hire a professional! Electricity will kill you....especially the DC side of things..

At the end of the day, it's up to the inspector to approve or deny the hardware used. At this point, if you followed and understood the CEC, arm yourself with the knowledge/printouts and fight the inspector since some of them want to be all tough about it. Some provinces make it more difficult, like Nova Scotia where you as a home owner cannot pull your own wiring permits OR do any electrical work, legally. An electrician must do the whole process for you. Besides this, in Nova Scotia, our province electrical inspector is the utility company, whether the system is off grid or grid tied, they HAVE to sign off on the installation to make it legal.

I can go on and on about a whole bunch of stuff. I am by no means an expert, but if I had to summarize a DIY installation into 3 items:

1. Armed yourself with the knowledge in the latest CEC book
2. Common sense goes a long way!
3. Don't cheap out to save a penny

YOU ARE 90% THERE......

If anyone thinks I am wrong, I love learning, please feel free to comment and share a wealth on knowledge.

 

[jgriffin]

Are you in Canada? Speaking strictly for Canadians.......

The rules are super strict here and we are always utilizing the latest CEC Electrical code. My advice for anyone doing a DIY installation is to grab a copy of the latest CEC and read all sections/references to renewable energy, make sure to understand it before proceeding to do any work. I see no reason why an inspector would not approve an inverter not on "their" list. There is no way they tested every one of them, besides, it reeks of kickbacks! It comes down to a few basic items:

• Most equipment must be CSA approved
  • Anything the inspector would easily see
  • Don't try to cheap out and buy something from Amazon
• For equipment lacking CSA approval, a UL listing could replace it
  • A good example would be Inverter + Battery MUST be UL9540 certified as a pair! Number 1 reason for people not getting approvals in Canada and being stuck with a boatload of equipment that becomes, essentially, a paperweight
    • There have been instances of people getting approval without this, but it's rare and I think it's due to the lack of knowledge/not being up to date/lack of understanding of the CEC code.
• Where CSA or UL is not an option, it could go for a SPE-1000 field approval which would "allow" is to be used
• DONT CHEAP OUT ON A SOLAR SITE PLAN! This clearly outlays where equipment will be placed on the property, the type of equipment used and the accompanying certificates for CSA/UL approvals.
• Be friendly with your electrical store, they come with a wealth of knowledge. Let them know what you are doing, they are most of them are happy to guide you.....
• Some online stores don't do installations, let alone know the basics of the electrical code. Once again, the CEC handbook will give you a wealth of knowledge
• If you are not comfortable doing something, hire a professional! Electricity will kill you....especially the DC side of things..

At the end of the day, it's up to the inspector to approve or deny the hardware used. At this point, if you followed and understood the CEC, arm yourself with the knowledge/printouts and fight the inspector since some of them want to be all tough about it. Some provinces make it more difficult, like Nova Scotia where you as a home owner cannot pull your own wiring permits OR do any electrical work, legally. An electrician must do the whole process for you. Besides this, in Nova Scotia, our province electrical inspector is the utility company, whether the system is off grid or grid tied, they HAVE to sign off on the installation to make it legal.

I can go on and on about a whole bunch of stuff. I am by no means an expert, but if I had to summarize a DIY installation into 3 items:

1. Armed yourself with the knowledge in the latest CEC book
2. Common sense goes a long way!
3. Don't cheap out to save a penny

YOU ARE 90% THERE......

If anyone thinks I am wrong, I love learning, please feel free to comment and share a wealth on knowledge.

Yep I'm in New Brunswick. I work for the utility as well as a PLT, bit of irony there for sure.

I just looked back on some e-mails prior to doing my netmering application, and it may have just been a timing issue on some inverters going to market. A few hybrid inverters I tried initially had gone through "field inspections" at the warehouse of the sellers, which according to them, qualified them to CSA 22.2 standards. An inspector would come in and blue sticker them, as well as put warnings on in french/english at that time apparently.

My utility, and I believe rightfully so, were wanting certification directly from the manufacturer and for it to be listed on the spec sheets. I see now that "the list"stemmed from dealing with another local solar provider, stating many hybrid inverters that met or exceeded all certifications still had to be on their "approved list"for it to pass. And when I had inquired about the Sol-Ark 15k (very new to market at the time), they were wanting a technical spreadsheet, and at that time stated it was not currently on their list of approved inverters. Either way, the Fronius Primo 10 fit the bill, was on the list, and I've been happy with it thus far. Would have preferred hybrid over grid-tie, but I also don't mind going with a split phase off-grid inverter and leaving existing transfer switch primarily in off-grid mode to keep well pump/fridge/freezer going. Wood stove and propane cook top/fireplace insert will keep us cooking/warm, and I'm actually gearing up a Ecoflow River 2 Pro to a bunch of Lifepo4 A123 cells (36v configuration) to extend it's runtime, so we can keep starlink going during an outage. I'm not even home for outages, so trying to make everything as seamless as possible for wife & kids without getting into genset/auto transfer switch territory.

I was able to build the pergola, install the K-rails, mount panels, mount inverter, trench the Teck Cable, do up everything on the DC Side, and I had a local electrician who has a keen interest in solar do up all the AC connections/disconnects required and he checked over everything on the DC side after. I went into it definitely not trying to hide anything, had discussions with Electrician and Inspector as far as the bonding/grounding of the system, and it all worked out and made sense in the end. I did mess up by not covering the wires at the bottom of the panels, where it wasn't a roof, the animal guard had to be placed over all the DC strings so they weren't accessible. Where they were bifacial, that made it a bit tricky. Took some time, kinda ugly, but got it done in the end. Just about to hit 14,500 kw/h in the first full year, so happy it has met expectations.

Also, Inspector was the one to deny the PV Isolator/Disconnect, the IMO unit. One of the few I could find that were rated for higher string voltages that didn't cost a fortune. It had passed at the Netmetering Application stage, but it had to be removed both physically and on the one-line placard as well.

 

[rgsherr]

Been a few years since you did this. How are things going now?

 

[jgriffin]

Been a few years since you did this. How are things going now?

Really haven't had any issues. I wanted a full year of data, which I now have, and want to experiment a little bit with some high elastomeric paint/any kind of high reflectivity surface to see if there's much of a boost. I did put them a little too high up for snow removal,but really don't generate much this time of year anyways.

Never really had any issues with the inspector. I basically went into it not wanting to cut any corners, and to do things properly. And genuinely felt I knew not near as much as the inspector. They seemed happy with 95% of everything, so it worked out great. I thought i'd get nailed on some bonding/grounding where i'm so used to the line trade, and everyone has their own little take on that somewhat confusing topic, but we did research the heck out of things, and really had no problems. My array is over 100' from the main panel, so I was able to get a ground plate deep enough under the array without getting into a ground loop scenario. Easier said than done, there's ledge everywhere around here. Which really makes you wonder how effective proper grounding truly is, when it can only practically be dug down as far as ledge. We rarely get a pole down with an auger, often an excavator has to chip away the last couple feet, or rock hammer.

We've had some strong winds, and really haven't noticed much. Structure does have a bit of a lean to it once it's all settled in place, so I would like to anchor it off with some guy steel to keep things straight. Incentives aren't there as much as they were when I did mine, so hopefully another 5 years i'll generate enough to get back my initial investment.

 

[wlemst88]

Hello all - does anyone have an update?

I'm personally in Ontario and am interested in the Gridboss, but I'm concerned about whether the Utility/ESA will accept the red disconnect switch on the right side as the "PV Utility disconnect"? My particular optimal layout the hybrid inverters would be remote from the Gridboss (IE around the corner of the house from the meter).

Also, I'm concerned about the Gridboss' mechanical interlock device being approved. Has anyone successfully passed an inspection in Ontario?