EG4 Hybrid Solar Minisplit - Permit & Inspection?
- Thread starter Hcap
- Start date
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
I haven’t done it but I ran a thought experiment for California. The lack of AFCI will be an issue.
Others had issue with proving that the MPPT is independent of grid but this is more an education problem for AHJ and POCO, not fundamental
Others had issue with proving that the MPPT is independent of grid but this is more an education problem for AHJ and POCO, not fundamental
RDuke
New Member
I am not in Florida, but I did just get a building permit to install my 12,000 BTU EG4 in Georgia. We will see how it goes. I submitted just enough to just do what I would call "Phase 1", meaning no solar at this time, only utility power. That way I can at least get it going and test it out. Then if successful, I will submit a "Phase 2" for the solar addition. Most of the YouTube videos tend to gloss over code compliance with the EG4. After I did my research, I became concerned about all the requirements. I think I have arc fault covered using an Outback ACS Plus. The only thing is that it only has one contactor, so that itself does not control all the conductors; however, along with Tigo module electronics, it should shut them down. I have not decided which ones to use yet, the optimizers or the fire protection only ones. My state is on the 2020 code, and there is just no way around arc fault if you put them on your roof because the EG4 needs over 2 panels and over 80 volts. 690.11 spells it out. 690.12 says we also need rapid shutdown. The Outback ICS Plus will hopefully cover me for both since an arc fault will trigger a rapid shutdown in my setup.
As for the comment by Zanydroid, I may very well have the issue mentioned regarding the AHJ, so we will see. I did get a copy of the "Intertek Authorization to Mark" document from EG4 which indicates is has UL1741 16-Sept 2020 edition markings for Inverters, Controllers, and Interconnection of System Equipment for use with Distributed Energy Resources. Hopefully that will satisfy them if it comes up. I think it will likely help the better prepared I am.
Then there is ground fault detection in 690.41. That one is a pain. It seems the Morningstar makes a product that will work, but it is only indoor rated so I am still trying to figure out the best way to implement it. I would have to run the DC conductors inside, or get an outdoor enclosure just for that box.
Overall, this is adding a LOT of expense and complexity, although I saved some money by getting a couple of devices on sale or from eBay. I have bench tested the Outback rapid shutdown initiator and it is pretty cool. I do like the idea of having an arc fault shutdown.
Although it may sound like overkill. I have actually had one solar fire already in 2017, so that scared the heck out of me. A tiny battery in a solar powered yard flower got overcharged on a sunny day. The battery blew up and set my dry winter grass on fire. I was lucky my wife saw it and we ran outside and put out the fire with a garden hose. Hopefully this will not happen again.
RDuke
As for the comment by Zanydroid, I may very well have the issue mentioned regarding the AHJ, so we will see. I did get a copy of the "Intertek Authorization to Mark" document from EG4 which indicates is has UL1741 16-Sept 2020 edition markings for Inverters, Controllers, and Interconnection of System Equipment for use with Distributed Energy Resources. Hopefully that will satisfy them if it comes up. I think it will likely help the better prepared I am.
Then there is ground fault detection in 690.41. That one is a pain. It seems the Morningstar makes a product that will work, but it is only indoor rated so I am still trying to figure out the best way to implement it. I would have to run the DC conductors inside, or get an outdoor enclosure just for that box.
Overall, this is adding a LOT of expense and complexity, although I saved some money by getting a couple of devices on sale or from eBay. I have bench tested the Outback rapid shutdown initiator and it is pretty cool. I do like the idea of having an arc fault shutdown.
Although it may sound like overkill. I have actually had one solar fire already in 2017, so that scared the heck out of me. A tiny battery in a solar powered yard flower got overcharged on a sunny day. The battery blew up and set my dry winter grass on fire. I was lucky my wife saw it and we ran outside and put out the fire with a garden hose. Hopefully this will not happen again.
RDuke
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
I think in the “EG4 product feedback thread” I suggested they do a second revision that is much easier to install in the U.S.
Frankly the partial UL1741 kind of traps/misleads people vs not having it at all
Frankly the partial UL1741 kind of traps/misleads people vs not having it at all
RDuke
New Member
Yes and I have sunk many hours into sorting through what it takes to be "code compliant". The important thing for me is the make it as safe as possible. I will say my local permitting office was not familiar with the product, but they said they would work with me to try to follow in the spirit of the code. So as long as they are willing to work with me, I am OK with that. That is all I can expect of them.
dopeassjackson
New Member
Considering it's not providing any power back into the grid wouldnt this technically be like needing a permit to plug in your RV with pannels on the roof?
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
RDuke
New Member
I contacted my local permitting office just to see if a utility powered mini split would require a permit. I noticed a neighbor recently installed one, and I did not see a permit on the public records web site for permitting and inspections. They told me the neighbor should have gotten a permit. Solar panels are quite visible so anyone driving by can check the address to see if you got a permit. Just a FYI. I looked up all of my neighbors addresses to see what they paid for their solar installations. They ranged from $30,000 to $74,000. Yikes.
Once you figure out whats needed you can do it for about half. Ground mounting instead of roof mounting cuts out a lot of cost.
Or, like my plan is. Im not trying to build a system to power the whole house. If i can just power my hvac, clothes dryer, refridge, 2 deep freezers and a few small amp circuits for interior lights , tv and wifi box I will happy.
Not counting the 2 EG4 solar hybrid mini splits. Im thinking $12k for me with 30 ground mount panels and me doing most of the work with a electrician doing the final tie in.
k490
Solar Enthusiast
Did building code enforcement show up at your neighbors house? I think if I were to go to the trouble of permitting just install a micro-inverter solar system to the house that way entire house can use the solar.
Did they approve your permit design? Is the permit you submitted only for installing a mini-split AC unit. You said phase 1 I'm thinking you didn't mention to them this unit can connect to solar panels as far as they know it's just a mini-split.
RDuke
New Member
In my case, the documentation I provided spells out that is hybrid capable, but that for now, I am only installing utility power on this permit. I said I would submit a new permit for the addition of solar if and when I move forward with that. As for my neighbors, the mini split I mentioned was just a neighbor with a regular utility mini split on their garage - no solar. When I looked at other addresses which do have solar panels, all had permits. Of course they paid through the nose and all have grid tied systems. I am planning to talk to a couple of them, but I already know what they paid from looking at the permits online.
Also, back when I bought my EG4, I had not fully researched all the implications. Many of the YouTube videos make everything look so simple, but some just have panels laying on the ground or against the side of a building, etc. Those work I am sure, but I can not do that if for no other reason than the "Wife Approval Factor". I doubt she would like to see panels laying around the yard.
Also, back when I bought my EG4, I had not fully researched all the implications. Many of the YouTube videos make everything look so simple, but some just have panels laying on the ground or against the side of a building, etc. Those work I am sure, but I can not do that if for no other reason than the "Wife Approval Factor". I doubt she would like to see panels laying around the yard.
k490
Solar Enthusiast
Technically your allowed to build a portable solar system without a permit sounds like you don't really have the room for ground mounting. You could probably get it permitted since there is no battery just need to figure out a stand alone RSD. I know inspectors like to see UL cert stickers put that on the unit if doesn't have it I know they have the UL cert.
You can DIY install a decent sized microinverter system lot cheaper then what your neighbors paid. I priced out a system about 13 years ago, but my wife said she didn't like the way solar panels look on the roof I lost interest in solar until our electric bills hit $500 a month in July.
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