EG4-LifePower4 Battery Issues, Need suggestions

[wtrey613]

Hi all,
Running into some battery issues with our current set up
Growatt 5000 es,
1x G4LL LiFePOWER 4 battery (Runs great) (this battery but no LED screen) (Picture Battery A)
1x LiFe POWER4 battery - Running into issues Link (Battery B)

Issues with the Eg4 battery include:
Unbalanced charging - Some times, not always, my G4LL battery will charge fully but the SOC on the EG4 will not charge. Or the charges will be unbalanced. SHouldnt they charge at the same rate?
Error message then shut down: randomly through out the day, we get an alarm then the battery will stop working. We have tried resetting it but it doesn't seem to work.
Sudden Drop of voltage/charge - not sure if this is battery related, but batteries were sitting at 75-80%, then they suddenly shut off and dropped below 20%. this was at the end of the day.

Attached is the set up. Our main battery is the G4LL (Battery A) ID assignment dials are set Dials are set to (On, on, On, off)
Battery B, ID assignments are (On, On, Off, ON)

I have read also on a forum that I Should NOT connect the battery's together with a communication cable? anyone care to explain? link to discussion

 

[Koldsimer]

I'm pretty sure the older gyll batteries cannot communicate with any of their newer batteries.

 

[Herb]

20%-80% DOD is a good compromise, the batteries will last longer according to the experts. By the time you turn 65 they should still be around, but by then hopefully battery storage solutions will be fairly cheap and more efficient. In reference to some of the issues with the batteries voltage drifts, and not charging evenly, I think this happens regularly with any type chemistry batteries, some more than others. At least that what I have found after 40+ years in the maintenance and communications fields, no 2 batteries are them same as long as they are within tolerance IAW the manufacturers recommendation they will do good, just check them and verify that they are. Currently the 2 backup systems, one is a (LiOn about 6 years old) and the other LiPo4) with a (10%-90% charge/discharge profile), both basically do the same thing, voltage drift as soon as I equalize them to the exact voltage and after a semi-annual top balance or bottom balance or both and re-configure them back to a series parallel setup. Both will do that, not sure if any of you have experience with laptop batteries. I worked on networks for many years, and one of the most common issues with laptops was the battery pack, most of them will have 1 or 2 cells go bad due to overcharging/under-charging, damaged or depleted capacity depending on how you look at it. The rest of the pack batteries were still in fair condition and sometimes in excellent condition and could be recycled. BMSs are a great tool and they do what they can and sometimes they fail due to differences within their environment and when a cell fails the entire pack is shutdown. So this is something to take in consideration. Normally and under normal conditions the manufacturer's recommendations are a good guide to use, they should know which parameters will give you the best results for their products. Just my 2 cents.

 

[bfitzgerald]

Did you get your batteries to behave? My neighbour has 2 EG4 LL's (24v) and doesn't like them. His power will go off a couple of times a day, for unknown reasons, but the inverter fault says low DC voltage. It's a fault that will normally auto reset when the low voltage problem goes away and the inverter will usually restart on its own. Sometimes he has to turn off some loads such as fridges and freezers since they all start up at the same time when the power is restored. He thought it might be his 240v water pump, but it draws less than 50 amps DC, around 1100w AC. He didn't get the communication adapter with his batteries and has yet to receive one from Signature Solar so it's hard to tell what's going on in the batteries. I suggested that he get more aggressive with SS. He has emailed back and forth with SS, but he isn't really pushing them. If you figured out your problems maybe he has the same issues.

 

[robby]

The reason is that cells are all over the place in quality. Once you start charging one of the pack failures is that one or more cells will jump up to 3.7V and the whole charging and balancing process will stop to save that cell. Meanwhile other cells in the pack are at charge voltage from 3.3V to 3.45V but the pack voltage value may read as being fully charge but the SOC will indicate somewhere between 70% and 94% depending on when the bad cells hit 3.7V

When you discharge the pack the first thing that happens it those 3.7V cells take a quick nose dive down to 3.4x volts and your SOC will drop faster than normal.
The killer is that the 3.3V cells are not even charged even half way so they will suddenly bottom out and the Inverter will make a sudden SOC drop and the BMS will shutdown due to one or more cells going below minimum volt value.

It's funny that SS got their YouTube Influencer to show that Jakiper rack mounts had this issue last week, when the fact is that both companies have the same issue.

 

[bfitzgerald]

Well that's something to watch for. I stopped by today and the battery cells were very even, at least according to the little screen on the batteries.

 

[robby]

Well that's something to watch for. I stopped by today and the battery cells were very even, at least according to the little screen on the batteries.

Watch for it when you have 2-3 days of overcast weather and your batteries do not reach full charge on any of the days.
Then when you finally have a clear day and get a full charge check the individual cells. That is when I see the issue and it does not go away unless I change the charge parameters to a higher voltage.

 

[Kornbread]

After two plus weeks of partly cloudy weather and partial battery charges, the basic eg4s will only get to ~93%soc. I suspect it is due to the unbalanced cells hitting the upper ceiling since the battery has rarely seen high enough voltages to initiate balancing in a long time.

 

[robby]

After two plus weeks of partly cloudy weather and partial battery charges, the basic eg4s will only get to ~93%soc. I suspect it is due to the unbalanced cells hitting the upper ceiling since the battery has rarely seen high enough voltages to initiate balancing in a long time.

Watch out because 93% is not an accurate representation of how much usable charge is in the battery. It’s much lower.

 

[JoeHam]

My GYLL battery has been in use 24/7/365 and undercharged most every day. I rarely see more than 2 of the SOC LED lights on unless we get an uninterrupted string of sunny days. Yet I rarely see more than .003 V difference amongst the 16 cells.

If the OP was merely looking at the LED lights for SOC I would suggest that is not a good way to determine it.

Although I’m not a user of communication cables between battery and inverter it is stupid simple to hook up and look at cell level voltages so I do that on occasion but have yet to see a problem.

Just my experience. I rarely post positive experiences like most people but I see @robby bash Signature Solar in EVERY thread about them so I will describe my positive experience on occasion to balance out a tiny bit of that. ?

 

[robby]

My GYLL battery has been in use 24/7/365 and undercharged most every day. I rarely see more than 2 of the SOC LED lights on unless we get an uninterrupted string of sunny days. Yet I rarely see more than .003 V difference amongst the 16 cells.

If the OP was merely looking at the LED lights for SOC I would suggest that is not a good way to determine it.

Although I’m not a user of communication cables between battery and inverter it is stupid simple to hook up and look at cell level voltages so I do that on occasion but have yet to see a problem.

Just my experience. I rarely post positive experiences like most people but I see @robby bash Signature Solar in EVERY thread about them so I will describe my positive experience on occasion to balance out a tiny bit of that. ?

Because it is obvious that GYLL batteries were better quality cells than the EG4. You hardly see any post about GYLL batteries having issues. As for my Bashing, maybe it would stop if Signature Solar stopped selling Inverters and batteries that are misleadingly in there Specifications and then poorly documented for installation. It would also be nice if they also offered some real customer service / Warranty and fixed the numerous problems they have promised to fix for months.

 

[JoeHam]

Feel free to bash away, I know your intention is to help them up their game. May I ask how you know they have changed the cells used in their batteries?

Over the years I have seen very few companies stick around the forum when the constant criticism is less than constructive. Many companies have come and gone and I would hate to see that happening to Sig Solar.

Personally, I would award them the Timex award for “taking a licking and keep on ticking “.

I’m showing my age quoting that commercial but I really hope we can keep some companies on the forum helping out as they can.

 

[robby]

Feel free to bash away, I know your intention is to help them up their game. May I ask how you know they have changed the cells used in their batteries?

LOL Sarcasm . You may believe whatever you want, I do not like their business practices and it has already cost me $2000 on a junk battery.
James is beyond help when it comes to business. He is thinking short term and watching the dollars come in now and has no idea how the bad customer service is going to kill his business over the long term.

The cells are changed IMO because the GYLL owners did not have these issues and also the newer EG4 rack battery packs are made by Gangfeng which i do not think was the case with GYLL. The main point is that GYLL's have not had the problems that EG4's have had.

Over the years I have seen very few companies stick around the forum when the constant criticism is less than constructive. Many companies have come and gone and I would hate to see that happening to Sig Solar.

Companies should never stick around forums unless they plan on actually offering customer support and not just lip service and product promotion.
Take a look at the time between any of the problems SS has had and then look at the pages and pages and months and months that pass of "We are working on it", "We are close to a solution", "We have a fix and are testing it". Then look at how many people have never gotten a fix and they just have to Kludge along with a home brew solution. Just watch what would have happened had you tried to return your own battery with its bent up face plate and cracked terminal. They would have told you that your SOL unless your willing to lose nearly $750 on your $1250 Investment.

Now compare that to Current Connected or Watts247 who get peoples stuff fixed within days to a couple of weeks. Not Months or Never!
And they don't screw you with a %40 restocking fee if you have to return it.

Personally, I would award them the Timex award for “taking a licking and keep on ticking “.

They would not be here if it was not for the fact that they are making a crap load of money via this forum. I would imagine Will has provided more than 50% of there sales through people reading about their products on this forum or seeing them on his videos.

I’m showing my age quoting that commercial but I really hope we can keep some companies on the forum helping out as they can.

If a company is good you don't need forum support. The customer just picks up the phone and talks to a technician. That is how I have solved all of my Inverter and battery problems.

 

[Kornbread]

They would not be here if it was not for the fact that they are making a crap load of money via this forum. I would imagine Will has provided more than 50% of there sales through people reading about their products on this forum or seeing them on his videos.

^^^This^^^ Only 50%?

 

[JoeHam]

Let’s get real Robby.

You don’t know the problem rate between the GYLL and the EG4 batteries. Complaints on the internet are not real data. Even though you think it’s obvious there is a different rate that’s just your opinion. If you have real data let’s have it.

You also don’t know if the cells in the GYLL are different from the EG4 even though you also stated that as fact.

Honestly, feel free to bash away, just stick to facts please. It’s important.

Carry on, I’ll show myself out.

 

[robby]

Let’s get real Robby.

You don’t know the problem rate between the GYLL and the EG4 batteries. Complaints on the internet are not real data. Even though you think it’s obvious there is a different rate that’s just your opinion. If you have real data let’s have it.

You also don’t know if the cells in the GYLL are different from the EG4 even though you also stated that as fact.

Honestly, feel free to bash away, just stick to facts please. It’s important.

Carry on, I’ll show myself out.

Bye Bye....

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

LOL Sarcasm . You may believe whatever you want, I do not like their business practices and it has already cost me $2000 on a junk battery.

James is beyond help when it comes to business. He is thinking short term and watching the dollars come in now and has no idea how the bad customer service is going to kill his business over the long term.

The cells are changed IMO because the GYLL owners did not have these issues and also the newer EG4 rack battery packs are made by Gangfeng which i do not think was the case with GYLL. The main point is that GYLL's have not had the problems that EG4's have had.

Companies should never stick around forums unless they plan on actually offering customer support and not just lip service and product promotion.
Take a look at the time between any of the problems SS has had and then look at the pages and pages and months and months that pass of "We are working on it", "We are close to a solution", "We have a fix and are testing it". Then look at how many people have never gotten a fix and they just have to Kludge along with a home brew solution. Just watch what would have happened had you tried to return your own battery with its bent up face plate and cracked terminal. They would have told you that your SOL unless your willing to lose nearly $750 on your $1250 Investment.

Now compare that to Current Connected or Watts247 who get peoples stuff fixed within days to a couple of weeks. Not Months or Never!
And they don't screw you with a %40 restocking fee if you have to return it.


They would not be here if it was not for the fact that they are making a crap load of money via this forum. I would imagine Will has provided more than 50% of there sales through people reading about their products on this forum or seeing them on his videos.

If a company is good you don't need forum support. The customer just picks up the phone and talks to a technician. That is how I have solved all of my Inverter and battery problems.

-Lifepower4 is built on the same ganfeng cells as SOK. (See lithium solar YouTube tear down)
-Your battery was being mixed with fortress packs and the charge/discharge rate didn’t match. Then in spite of getting the rated 5.kWh out of your $1700 pack you weren’t happy because the inevitable fact that some cells get to top voltage before others.
The service is based on capacity, especially in mix match and differing age scenarios.

-Less than 20% of our sales come from YouTube referrals. Most of the volume is from friends of happy customers like @JoeHam

-David Poz is an honest guy, as well as a combat veteran who served in Afghanistan and never stages his results. I’ve have met him personally a month ago and you are smearing him sir.

 

[Kornbread]

LOL Sarcasm . You may believe whatever you want, I do not like their business practices and it has already cost me $2000 on a junk battery.

-Lifepower4 is built on the same ganfeng cells as SOK. (See lithium solar YouTube tear down)
-Your battery was being mixed with fortress packs and the charge/discharge rate didn’t match. Then in spite of getting the rated 5.kWh out of your $1700 pack you weren’t happy because the inevitable fact that some cells get to top voltage before others.
The service is based on capacity, especially in mix match and differing age scenarios.

-Less than 20% of our sales come from YouTube referrals. Most of the volume is from friends of happy customers like @JoeHam

-David Poz is an honest guy, as well as a combat veteran who served in Afghanistan and never stages his results. I’ve have met him personally a month ago and you are smearing him sir.

Many of us are under the assumption that grade A LiFePo4 cells are the best cells marked for EVs, but Ganfeng lists their batteries as communication energy storage systems, not EV. Are the cells in SigSolar's LiFePo4 server rack batteries grade A cells? How do you delineate between grades?

 

[robby]

-Lifepower4 is built on the same ganfeng cells as SOK. (See lithium solar YouTube tear down)

The same, you sure of that ? We already know that batteries are graded and then sold.
It's pretty amazing that no one with an SOK has reported cells that have issue but we have had several reports of EG4LL with cell problems.

-Your battery was being mixed with fortress packs and the charge/discharge rate didn’t match. Then in spite of getting the rated 5.kWh out of your $1700 pack you weren’t happy because the inevitable fact that some cells get to top voltage before others.

The 5 AMP difference in packs being mixed does not make any difference. The Fortress batteries are charged and are in standby a good hour before the EG4LL because they have a proper active balancer and a relay not Mosfets. The Sol-Ark still keep charging the EG4LL for another hour and when the Eg4LL goes into standby mode the cells are out of balance because you use a cheap passive balancer that cannot balance the cells when they drift to far apart.

Who told you I was getting the full 5KWh out of the EG4LL? That all depends on whether the cells are balanced.
If they are not balanced I get a lot less and that happens frequently. It happened today!



Just so you know this is not BS, this is what I get when the cells in the EG4LL are balanced.



So please do not tell me I am not losing capacity, I am losing a crap load of capacity if I don't go in and balance the cells when they get far out of balance.

The problem is you don't have consistency with matching the cells in the pack so some people get a few dud cells that just cannot keep up with the others. When I asked you about this your response was "We don't warranty the cells, only the capacity". So what is a customer to do? If I send back the battery you will just hammer it with charging up to 57V to 58V for an hour or two in order to get the duds up to capacity and then declare them as working perfectly and charge me return shipping. No thanks, I have seen how issues like this play out for other people dealing with Signature Solar.

The service is based on capacity, especially in mix match and differing age scenarios.

-Less than 20% of our sales come from YouTube referrals. Most of the volume is from friends of happy customers like @JoeHam

You seem to have a lot of customers who did not end up being happy when they found issues and had to deal with your service department. I will admit things have gotten better of late. Time will tell if you can maintain happy customers like Watts247 and Current Connected do.

-David Poz is an honest guy, as well as a combat veteran who served in Afghanistan and never stages his results. I’ve have met him personally a month ago and you are smearing him sir.

Oh please don't give me the Veteran does no wrong speech. My youngest Brother served as a Marine Sergeant in Afghanistan and he is no bloody Angel. Yeah I thank him for his service but that does not mean I follow him blindly!

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

The same, you sure of that ? We already know that batteries are graded and then sold.
It's pretty amazing that no one with an SOK has reported cells that have issue but we have had several reports of EG4LL with cell problems.

The 5 AMP difference in packs being mixed does not make any difference. The Fortress batteries are charged and are in standby a good hour before the EG4LL because they have a proper active balancer and a relay not Mosfets. The Sol-Ark still keep charging the EG4LL for another hour and when the Eg4LL goes into standby mode the cells are out of balance because you use a cheap passive balancer that cannot balance the cells when they drift to far apart.

Who told you I was getting the full 5KWh out of the EG4LL? That all depends on whether the cells are balanced.
If they are not balanced I get a lot less and that happens frequently. It happened today!
View attachment 113235


Just so you know this is not BS, this is what I get when the cells in the EG4LL are balanced.
View attachment 113236


So please do not tell me I am not losing capacity, I am losing a crap load of capacity if I don't go in and balance the cells when they get far out of balance.

The problem is you don't have consistency with matching the cells in the pack so some people get a few dud cells that just cannot keep up with the others. When I asked you about this your response was "We don't warranty the cells, only the capacity". So what is a customer to do? If I send back the battery you will just hammer it with charging up to 57V to 58V for an hour or two in order to get the duds up to capacity and then declare them as working perfectly and charge me return shipping. No thanks, I have seen how issues like this play out for other people dealing with Signature Solar.

You seem to have a lot of customers who did not end up being happy when they found issues and had to deal with your service department. I will admit things have gotten better of late. Time will tell if you can maintain happy customers like Watts247 and Current Connected do.


Oh please don't give me the Veteran does no wrong speech. My youngest Brother served as a Marine Sergeant in Afghanistan and he is no bloody Angel. Yeah I thank him for his service but that does not mean I follow him blindly!

Yes, the same. See the video. I can post the invoices to both companies from ganfeng if you’d like and it weren’t improper.

Fear, uncertainty, and doubt - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Time and actual reports has told that we do a very good job keeping relationships with customer.
All companies are going to have a lot more complex issues to face when they get anywhere near our scale

We have 105 full time jobs here and plan to hire another 150 next year
Our current average call response time is 2 hours but we are going to have to double efforts to improve that while volume continues to rapidly increase.

SEI is providing industry standard training for nabcep certification to new hires, and we have 10 electricians working in an r+d shop with 130kw on the roof and 15 different brands (including solark) of systems in carts that we are continually testing.

As a sole owner who never takes draws from my company and drives a budget ranger I think that we are putting out an exceptional effort in the time we have been here because my commitment is to allocate all resources we receive into building the company that everyone here wants.