EG4-LifePower4 vs EG4-LL Lithium Battery

[gasongasoff]

Also, the LifePower4 (48V) has a UL-listing on the entire battery, whereas only the cells are UL-listed on the LL, correct?

 

[robby]

EG4 lifepower seems to be limited to a 30amp continuous power draw according to the documentation. Also several reports of inverters not starting even with four batteries and some reports of sudden shutdowns under sudden loads that it should be able to handle.

EG4LL has not had any of those issues but issues myself and others have noticed is certain cells do not charge as well as the rest. This problem is amplified by its passive BMS that can take hours to balance the cells.
I have 3 cells that are always lagging way behind the others on charging and discharge faster than the rest. If they were not welded in I might have tried to replace them and the BMS.

People with the Lifepower may be suffering from the same issues but probably don’t realize it because there is no display.

I wish SOK rack mount had been around at the time I bought the EG4LL

 

[Lilikoi_Heavy_Industries]

This problem is amplified by its passive BMS that can take hours to balance the cells.

The SOK has the same class of passive BMS though right (I'm assuming)? I am interested in SOK, do you know the answer? This assumption is starting to make me wonder about a 280ah DIY battery now, I could put in a better BMS/balancer in that situation maybe.

Happy with my Lifepower4 48 (51.2V), they can start my Multiplus II 48/3000 or Reliable WZRELB 48/3000 with one battery no problem.

 

[robby]

The SOK has the same class of passive BMS though right (I'm assuming)? I am interested in SOK, do you know the answer? This assumption is starting to make me wonder about a 280ah DIY battery now, I could put in a better BMS/balancer in that situation maybe.

Happy with my Lifepower4 48 (51.2V), they can start my Multiplus II 48/3000 or Reliable WZRELB 48/3000 with one battery no problem.

No I have no idea but you can call them and ask Dexter.

 

[ChrisG]

EG4 lifepower seems to be limited to a 30amp continuous power draw according to the documentation. Also several reports of inverters not starting even with four batteries and some reports of sudden shutdowns under sudden loads that it should be able to handle.

EG4LL has not had any of those issues but issues myself and others have noticed is certain cells do not charge as well as the rest. This problem is amplified by its passive BMS that can take hours to balance the cells.
I have 3 cells that are always lagging way behind the others on charging and discharge faster than the rest. If they were not welded in I might have tried to replace them and the BMS.

People with the Lifepower may be suffering from the same issues but probably don’t realize it because there is no display.

I wish SOK rack mount had been around at the time I bought the EG4LL

So the cheaper one has been the problematic one, correct? I have a friend that bought a LifePower ($1500 one) and it won’t start his Growatt 3000 SPF. If I hook up my 5kwh battery to his GW with Overkill 100amp BMS, no issues at all.

 

[Lilikoi_Heavy_Industries]

No I have no idea but you can call them and ask Dexter.

I'm pretty sure it isn't any better so no need.

 

[Jack Rabbit Off Grid]

So the cheaper one has been the problematic one, correct? I have a friend that bought a LifePower ($1500 one) and it won’t start his Growatt 3000 SPF. If I hook up my 5kwh battery to his GW with Overkill 100amp BMS, no issues at all.

That weird it won’t start a GroWatt. I can start my Magnum 4448 off just one.

 

[ChrisG]

That weird it won’t start a GroWatt. I can start my Magnum 4448 off just one.

Which one? I’m trying to understand which one is problematic. LifePower or LL(screen)

 

[Jack Rabbit Off Grid]

Which one? I’m trying to understand which one is problematic. LifePower or LL(screen)

I have the Lifepower4’s no screen.

 

[Kornbread]

Which one? I’m trying to understand which one is problematic. LifePower or LL(screen)

The basic eg4 LiFePower4 are the ones having issues with starting/sudden surges. It appears to be hit or miss as some have had issues with the battery going into short protection trying to start a vacuum cleaner while others have been able to start large inverters with no problems. I had no problems starting a 6k growatt with two eg4 LiFePower4. The pack has grown to four and the only issues I see are a slight charge/discharge differential between the new vs the old batteries.

 

[robby]

I'm pretty sure it isn't any better so no need.

Don't assume. Ask @HighTechLab he is the SOK Rep on the forum.

 

[Lilikoi_Heavy_Industries]

Don't assume. Ask @HighTechLab he is the SOK Rep on the forum.

Find me one single server rack battery that mysteriously includes a much more expensive active BMS... There isn't one.

You're trying to call out issues with batteries like they're major issues, when they're exactly how both batteries are designed, I think?

That weird it won’t start a GroWatt. I can start my Magnum 4448 off just one.

There are a lot of people with very bad wiring, and who refuse to show a clamp meter reading, they're obviously just putting the company on blast and hoping to force the company to bend over backwards to help them. Not all of the threads where people have issues with the battery are the fault of the battery.

I've responded to a couple of those threads. The poster usually reacts like yosemite sam and starts stomping on their hat when somebody questions their wiring and derails their "putting EG4 on blast" thread.

 

[Kornbread]

Find me one single server rack battery that mysteriously includes a much more expensive active BMS... There isn't one.

If I had just started shopping for these and saw the statements you made, I'd ignore your posts at this point robby, you're trying to call out issues with batteries like they're major issues, when they're exactly how both batteries are designed.


There are a lot of people with very bad wiring, and who refuse to show a clamp meter reading, they're obviously just putting the company on blast and hoping to force the company to bend over backwards to help them. Not all of the threads where people have issues with the battery are the fault of the battery.

I've responded to a couple of those threads. The poster usually reacts like yosemite sam and starts stomping on their hat when somebody questions their wiring and derails their "putting EG4 on blast" thread.

At this point, they are sufficient posts pertaining to the short circuit protection issue of the eg4 LiFePower4, that it is more than just putting the company " ... on blast ... ".

 

[robby]

Find me one single server rack battery that mysteriously includes a much more expensive active BMS... There isn't one.

Fortress eFlex 5.4KW battery has a fully active balancing BMS. Takes 15 minutes to balance out the batteries.
I have four of them.

If I had just started shopping for these and saw the statements you made, I'd ignore your posts at this point robby, you're trying to call out issues with batteries like they're major issues, when they're exactly how both batteries are designed.

Please go ahead and Ignore me. I have been wondering which Battery manufacturer you are representing. ?

There are a lot of people with very bad wiring, and who refuse to show a clamp meter reading, they're obviously just putting the company on blast and hoping to force the company to bend over backwards to help them. Not all of the threads where people have issues with the battery are the fault of the battery.

There are a lot of people on here who know exactly what they are doing and are having problems. Lets assume for a second you were right. Why is it they can use another Brand of battery, even an old AGM battery and get their Inverter to start but a Lifepower4 is not able to start it? Same Wiring but Different Battery

I've responded to a couple of those threads. The poster usually reacts like yosemite sam and starts stomping on their hat when somebody questions their wiring and derails their "putting EG4 on blast" thread.

Your new here, it has not even been two months since you signed up. Most of those threads are 5 or more months old. What questions did you ask them and under what account?

 

[HighTechLab]

Don't assume. Ask @HighTechLab he is the SOK Rep on the forum.

While similar in function, the SOK and EG4 use totally different BMSs, from different manufacturers in completely different parts of China. Side-by-side the hardly resemble each other.

@Koldsimer could speak to the point of the SOK having a much better time with the startup load of his inverter versus the EG4's he was using (but ultimately returned). We make absolutely certain our battery meets spec... it doesn't have any erroneous claims in the marketing material whatsoever.

 

[Lilikoi_Heavy_Industries]

Fortress eFlex 5.4KW battery has a fully active balancing BMS. Takes 15 minutes to balance out the batteries.
I have four of them.
View attachment 103963

I'll be happy to start representing the Fortress eFlex 5.4KW battery if you can get 4 of them delivered to my location for about $6-8K shipped (apparently I couldn't get two of them here for that).

That is a really awesome battery bank that you have, I love it. It already can talk to Victron I believe right? WAY BETTER THAN OUR BUDGET BATTERIES ALL OF THEM. From this perspective I agree with so many of your posts. But at the price point I was staying with lead acid banks which is kinda hell by comparison to cheap LiFePO4?

I stand corrected on my "server rack battery form factor statement" then! This really expensive one, like twice as much money WTF, has an active BMS! I definitely don't consider a battery that costs more than twice as much in the same league with the ones I bought. I would rather buy a high end BMS and put it in my lifepower4's probably, or put these existing batteries in a low demand application (because they are working just fine), and do a DIY LiFePO4 bank with nice active BMS for my next project (14kwh from 280's???).


"But the AGM battery works" complaints are based on not understanding how important a robust BMS is to a LiFePO4 battery, probably a bad idea to use the cheapest one and then push it to the limits. The fact is the AGM was able to push many more amps inrush than the BMS, and they need to learn if they want to get the newer tech. They're welcome to buy $4000 batteries instead too, or have somebody charge to figure it all out and install all of it and deal with ongoing issues. Good candidates for BMS upgrades if they're technical and they already bought the cheapest one.

I don't have that many posts, doesn't take that long to find one with me questioning why the guy refused to wire his RV for current sharing correctly or buy a clamp meter. And we need a meter with inrush to really get to the bottom of these questions, as well as people who are willing to improve their obvious wiring issues.

I would LOVE it if somebody would post REAL DATA showing how ineffective and pathetic the current handling is on my BMS compared to an SOK. And then, for EG4 to respond with an explanation, either being a firmware update, reasoning why the existing BMS hardware cannot handle as much, or admit the cells wouldn't be able to hold up and that's the reason it's limited. I'm also a really big fan of my LiFePO4 upgrade and it happens to work for me here (both my inverters could start on 1 battery if I needed to in an emergency...)

Lifepower4's are working great for my cabin in the jungle. I'd put that Fortress eFlex in a datacenter (and I'm sure they are).

 

[ChrisG]

That weird it won’t start a GroWatt. I can start my Magnum 4448 off just one.

Yeah. It sucked for him. He had no loads attached. Just went into alarm mode. Followed the startup procedure From SS video also. No luck. Triple checked all connections and it didn’t work. He’s looking into SOK Now.

 

[Koldsimer]

While similar in function, the SOK and EG4 use totally different BMSs, from different manufacturers in completely different parts of China. Side-by-side the hardly resemble each other.

@Koldsimer could speak to the point of the SOK having a much better time with the startup load of his inverter versus the EG4's he was using (but ultimately returned). We make absolutely certain our battery meets spec... it doesn't have any erroneous claims in the marketing material whatsoever.

It was pretty simple in my case. The lifepower 4 battery would not start my inverter under any condition. There is something wrong in the bms settings and Signature Solar couldn't figure it out over the period of 2 months. I tried the lifepower batteries on another system- same exact results. First try with the SOK and had instant success. The battery started and ran my system fine with just one battery. Ran loads up to near 100a and it didn't flinch.

Keep in mind, this system had worked flawlessly for 2 years with FLA batteries prior to trying the lifepower 4. The system also started and worked perfectly with Discover lithium batteries.

Nice to hear that the SOK uses a different bms. Not only does this bms not seem to have any issues starting inverters, Current Connected has a much better grasp of the workings of their bms/battery and i'm confident they could easily make any adjustments necessary to help an end user that might have problems.

I've also closely monitored the batteries while in use and the SOK charges and discharges slightly faster than the lifepower LL. Cell voltages are much closer in the SOK than the eg4. Two of my eg4 batteries have cells nearly 200mv apart- even after several hours at 100% soc at 57v.

In summary, SOK is a much better battery. Better build quality, better bms, better user interface, better lcd functions, better vendor with outstanding after sale support.

 

[Kornbread]

I'll be happy to start representing the Fortress eFlex 5.4KW battery if you can get 4 of them delivered to my location for about $6-8K shipped (apparently I couldn't get two of them here for that).

That is a really awesome battery bank that you have, I love it. It already can talk to Victron I believe right? WAY BETTER THAN OUR BUDGET BATTERIES ALL OF THEM. From this perspective I agree with so many of your posts. But at the price point I was staying with lead acid banks which is kinda hell by comparison to cheap LiFePO4?

I stand corrected on my "server rack battery form factor statement" then! This really expensive one, like twice as much money WTF, has an active BMS! I definitely don't consider a battery that costs more than twice as much in the same league with the ones I bought. I would rather buy a high end BMS and put it in my lifepower4's probably, or put these existing batteries in a low demand application (because they are working just fine), and do a DIY LiFePO4 bank with nice active BMS for my next project (14kwh from 280's???).


"But the AGM battery works" complaints are based on not understanding how important a robust BMS is to a LiFePO4 battery, probably a bad idea to use the cheapest one and then push it to the limits. The fact is the AGM was able to push many more amps inrush than the BMS, and they need to learn if they want to get the newer tech. They're welcome to buy $4000 batteries instead too, or have somebody charge to figure it all out and install all of it and deal with ongoing issues. Good candidates for BMS upgrades if they're technical and they already bought the cheapest one.

I don't have that many posts, doesn't take that long to find one with me questioning why the guy refused to wire his RV for current sharing correctly or buy a clamp meter. And we need a meter with inrush to really get to the bottom of these questions, as well as people who are willing to improve their obvious wiring issues.

I would LOVE it if somebody would post REAL DATA showing how ineffective and pathetic the current handling is on my BMS compared to an SOK. And then, for EG4 to respond with an explanation, either being a firmware update, reasoning why the existing BMS hardware cannot handle as much, or admit the cells wouldn't be able to hold up and that's the reason it's limited. I'm also a really big fan of my LiFePO4 upgrade and it happens to work for me here (both my inverters could start on 1 battery if I needed to in an emergency...)

Lifepower4's are working great for my cabin in the jungle. I'd put that Fortress eFlex in a datacenter (and I'm sure they are).

Did you know that SigSolar has ok'd some people with the short circuit protection issue to use another SigSolar approved bms?

 

[robby]

Did you know that SigSolar has ok'd some people with the short circuit protection issue to use another SigSolar approved bms?

Yep I saw that but yet we still have people on here who do not believe there is a problem
If you have Six of them then you really do not notice the issues. That makes sense because that is slightly over 9KW (6x30Ax52V) that you can draw from them without an issue.
I can draw 10KW of Continuous Power from just two eFlex's.