HighDesertOffgrid
Solar Pirate
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2022
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- 960
Farm Boss was taken. Is there any free merch?
EG4 new products at RE+
- Thread starter Quattrohead
- Start date
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Noname142
Guest
Correct. The 6000xp is "grid tied" as it can connect to the grid, pass it through, or use it to support loads and charge batteries., Thus, it's still a hybrid. However, it's not "grid interactive."
Thanks for validating the point, though. See, we can agree on something.
*edit* you gotta love AI...
At sea level on a 75 degree day out of direct sunlight, resistive loads only.
dougbert
Solar Wizard
I have a 8000 watt winco generator, but I only use propane on it and I am at 5535 ft. It max's out at 6300 watts, only cost $50 because it was broken. It was a simple fix: replace the melted wire to the caps
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2022
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Incorrect
The 6kxp is not grid-tied. But it can be connected to the grid.
Grid-tied equipment relies on the grid to function.
This is correctedit* you gotta love AI...
A hybrid can use solar, battery, and grid, at the same time.
An off-grid switches between grid and battery. And some can use solar in either mode.
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Noname142
Guest
Ahh, so the 18kpv isn't grid tied either then, since it also doesn't require the grid?
But yet, they are BOTH still hybrid inverters.
By your definition, you are saying "a hybrid can use solar, battery, and grid at the same time" which, the 6000xp can do.
It can charge the batteries from PV AND grid, at the same time. Thus, hybrid. Thanks for confirming yet again.
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wpns
Solar Joules are catch and release
Naw, I’m going to white-label the EG4 products and give them rational names for a 10%markup.
HighDesertOffgrid
Solar Pirate
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2022
- Messages
- 960
White label? Reminds me of the first generic products in the 70s. White can with black lettering that simply said, BEER.Naw, I’m going to white-label the EG4 products and give them rational names for a 10%markup.
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2022
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- 25,919
Correct , it's a hybrid. Which is a combination of both grid-tied and off-grid.
Correct
Incorrect
It can power the loads by either battery or grid. (Not both at the same time)
You are just being silly, now.
I give up.
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Noname142
Guest
ahh, moving the goal posts.. ie, changing the definition you set, to add "powering the loads" now. got it.
With your original definition, it can USE the grid and PV at the same to charge the battery (thus USING the battery as well)
When you add "powering loads" from those at the same time, well.. thats a completely different definition.
Fun debating pedantry, isn't it?
The one thing I *won't* do, is spend the next year trying to correct everyone who uses a term that I personally "don't agree with", *BECAUSE* there is no standards body defining it. Can you say the same?
For what it's worth, I actually DO agree with your new definition. I was debating for the sake of pointing out how.. without a standard, it's simply an opinion that something should be X and not Y. The fact that EG4 has decided on a naming convention that you don't personally like, doesn't make it incorrect. (nor does it make it "correct" that other companies name it differently.)
They could name the various products after colors, lizards, penguins, celestial bodies, etc.. and it *still* wouldn't be *wrong*, regardless if I liked the convention or not.
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DIYrich
Solar Wizard
The One or Rosie.
I vote for Max Inverter Continous. Or: Battery Inverter / Total Inverter / PV.
twice as much "fun"
or.....10 million lumen LED flashlight....requires 3 AAs.
ksmithaz1
Solar / EV Junkie
GTSP-12x18 Grid Tie Split phase 12KW output 18KW input
OGSP-6x8 Off Grid Split phase 6KW output 8KW input
. . .
OGSP-6x8 Off Grid Split phase 6KW output 8KW input
. . .
Quattrohead
Emperor Of Solar
Back to the actual news here if you all don't mind.
The smart ports on the grid boss are dual function, they can control output loads and can also receive AC coupling from other PV systems.
All inputs and outputs are voltage and current monitored so that the grid boss knows where to steer the power.
It is also rated to be a main service disconnect, it is going to be an extremely useful device.
The FlexBoss 21 is a slightly higher power version of the 18K PV but specifically designed to work with the Grid Boss, it does not have a display.
The 12000XP is what the off-gridders have been waiting for, twice the power of the 6000 XP and still has considerable surge ability. It is going to be very popular.
The smart ports on the grid boss are dual function, they can control output loads and can also receive AC coupling from other PV systems.
All inputs and outputs are voltage and current monitored so that the grid boss knows where to steer the power.
It is also rated to be a main service disconnect, it is going to be an extremely useful device.
The FlexBoss 21 is a slightly higher power version of the 18K PV but specifically designed to work with the Grid Boss, it does not have a display.
The 12000XP is what the off-gridders have been waiting for, twice the power of the 6000 XP and still has considerable surge ability. It is going to be very popular.
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Offgrid Jungle
Solar Enthusiast
physical size of the 12000 XP?
intro price of $1999?
intro price of $1999?
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Noname142
Guest
I'm pretty excited about the grid boss, if I understand correctly on it's capabilities. A while back, I responded to a thread where EG4 was asking what we'd like to see. I listed 9 things. The grid boss seems to address at least 3 of those wishlist things (33%!) 1,8,9 seems like they should all be solved with the grid boss. I'm already thinking of how I can make that a central part of my new solar setup.
In new installs, it also sounds like the one unit will satisfy the requirements for an external AC disconnect after the utility meter AND an automatic or manual transfer switch.. meaning saving costs and wall space.
I've been looking at various "smart panels", and trying to figure out a way to intelligently shed loads based on battery SOC, but haven't found one that is cost effective, or simple. It looks like most would require some kind of custom external control with a PLC or NodeRed or similar.
So for me, I'm REALLY interested in the grid boss. I just hope it's significantly cheaper than all of those insanely priced "smart panels"
wpns
Solar Joules are catch and release
Indeed, without any other details, I'm hopeful for the GridBoss. Of course it'll come down to cost, integration support, and actual features, but it could be a valuable piece of new installs anyway.
RedGD
New Member
The grid boss seems like it could be pretty useful. Fewer things to install when using multiple inverters. Looks like one of it's purposes is to eliminate the need for a few combiner panels.
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wpns
Solar Joules are catch and release
That's a little better but:
Why the 20-xxx rating on the outputs? Doesn't work under 20A? Doesn't measure properly under 20A?
Are there two different versions for the 12Kpv and the 18Kpv? They seem to have 50 or 70A breakers...
It looks like these would then be in grid-tied mode to the GridBoss box? Sounds like a lot of thought is going to have to go into configuring everything properly, but does this also mean you could mix and match the {12,18,21}Kpv models? I can't imagine it wouldn't work in completely off-grid mode, if you just run everything off the Backed Up output...
I don't see the comms between the inverters and the GridBoss, but that's probably not currently documented?
RedGD
New Member
I suspect the 20-amp minimum on those smart loads is with regard to load shedding to conserve battery capacity. Perhaps they assume you wouldn't have a reason to shed a load smaller than that.
DIYrich
Solar Wizard
I don't think it can do #9. The 18k is backfeeding via the grid input into the Grid Boss(AC connection PV to the Grid Boss). That requires UL1741SA. The 18kpv is synching to its grid input (the Grid Boss). The 6000xp, can't backfeed the grid input, not can it synch to it. The Grid Boss cannot combine the output of independent inverters that are not synched.
It seems like if you want the Smart Load capabilities of the Grid Boss, then the ability to independently parallel inverters is a nice bonus. I don't think there is much benefit to buying it just for that function.
The Grid Boss may be a smarter way to AC Couple a battery to an Enphase system. A cheap Growatt 10000tl-hu-us into Inverter 1, and Enphase into Inverter 2. Staying within the EG4 product line, what you would want is a stripped down 18kpv (or grid interactive 6000xp), and put the smarts into the Grid Boss.
Seems like a neat solution looking for a problem.
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Noname142
Guest
You may be right about #9, we'll need more information.
My understanding is that the 6000xp with recent firmware updates can be used in AC coupled scenarios now. So, I'd imagine the 6000xp would connect to one of the "smart load" ports, instead of a hybrid inverter port. Then, the grid boss would take that power, just like any other "AC Coupled" inverter. But, purely assumptions right now. I guess we'll see when they release documentation, manuals, and such.
I'm optimistic, though.
As for "neat solution looking for a problem", I think the phased load shedding perfectly fits my desires. I don't have enough battery to backup the entire house for an extended outage (ie, more than a day or two). So, it'd be awesome to be able to split my loads as critical, really nice, but not critical, optional but if I have excess, and never try to run this off batteries. Then you can do some logic like..
At any battery capacity, shed the stuff that I never want to support from battery
When batteries are above 80%, power everything.
at 80%, shed the "if i have excess" optional stuff.
at 50%, shed the nice to haves
keep the critical loads running all the way to 0%..
(I just made this scenario up on the fly.. so, grain of salt on the percentages, or loads to shed and when.. mostly just as an example)
This allows us to setup systems where we don't have to rely on family members to go flip breakers to manually shed loads.. and it just does "the right thing" to ensure your critical loads always have enough capacity.. while also trying to satisfy desires for creature comforts during an extended outage. Which is exactly why I was trying to think of a way to cobble together a solution with existing smart panels.
But think about a greenfield environment, new house build or similar.
Setup 4 breaker panels. One fed from each smart load port.
You could literally change the priority of a load, just by changing which panel it's connected to. A bit of an extreme scenario, but I could see it happening. In my particular case, my house has a ton of additions over the years before I bought it.. and it seems like everything is a subpanel.
sub panel for the well pump equipment, subpanel for the barn, sub panel for the garage, sub panel for the master bedroom and bathroom, and then the "main panel" that feeds the kitchen, living room, and 1 bathroom.
In this house, I could make the "main panel" my critical loads.. and most of the other subpanels would just tie into a smart port.
Quattrohead
Emperor Of Solar
I concur with Mr News, this is a very exciting product for integrating solar power into existing homes.
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