I'm not offended, they been pretty fair with me.
EG4 Price Changes – What You Need to Know
- Thread starter EG4TechSolutionsTeam
- Start date
Dave911
Solar Addict
EG4 and SS stand on the reputation that they have established. Good and bad. It is, what it is.
If this is confusing, you just need to read more posts on this forum.
If this is confusing, you just need to read more posts on this forum.
CaySol
Solar apprentice
I would look at the current state of the products and company (support etc) rather than the past. The brand is important for marketing but I think we should have a deeper look in this type of forum. Encouraging or discouraging people from using a product should be about performance.
Q-Dog
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Don't call it hate, call it scrutiny. And what better thread to scritinize this company than in a thread they started?
I see several folks say SS has " gotten better" and maybe we should take it easy on them. Companies don't get better when they think everything is going just fine.
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wheelman55
Solar Enthusiast
To me it’s more important for these companies to maintain/improve quality, tech, customer service, warranty, etc, and most important is that they are able to stay in business for the long term.
James Showalter
CEO, EG4 Electronics, Signature Solar founder
They literally devalue goods 70-80%. no need to make hundreds of jobs here doing that and more like we are...
when a country like the USA can't send a foreign national to jail for evasion then they do not have to abide by the laws.
42OhmsPA
Who likes Electrical Gremlins?
I suppose that devaluation depends on what the true cost of the goods really is before all the markups.
Post a complete BOM for one of your popular units so we can break it down, I know you will still need to factor in all the overhead; wages, insurance, utilities, etc.
For the record I think it's excellent what you're doing in establishing manufacturing in the states, no matter how minimal it is, and support that fully. I struggle with the bold claims, in posts, that you're manufacturing in the states but you say on video you'll be installing heatsinks, etc. (SKD manufacturing).
What % of the manufacturing will be done in the states / when the units arrive stateside, what % completion will they be.
They may not be able to send them to jail but they could attempt to cut off all imports of components made by foreign companies that partake in the shenanigans.
Q-Dog
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Could we save money by purchasing a "knockdown inverter kit" from SS and putting the units together ourselves? Some folks are already doing this with batteries.
Dave911
Solar Addict
Oh please stop James. You act like none of us have ever run a business before.
Your diatribe is insulting. We aren't idiots.
As a business owner, I know how businesses and business owners operate. Many, many businesses operate on the very edge of the law.
Many operate outside of the law if the penalties are not too great. This is common knowledge.
If there is a crack in the "rules" we (businesses) will go through them. We don't make the laws. But we try and work with, and around them.
Don't confuse evasion with avoidance. There is a big gray area between these two things. Avoidance is legal. Evasion must include fraud and that can be very hard to prove.
Read this:
This is poised as "avoidance".
Preparing for New Trump Tariffs: 10 Approaches
Here are 10 ways to avoid, mitigate, or delay the costs of new tariffs that President-elect Trump has promised for countries like China, Canada, and Mexico:
I've personally seen situations where the rules were bent much more than this, getting equipment in and out of China and Mexico.
Quattrohead
Emperor Of Solar
OMG can you imagine the support calls on that, cry cry I've got heatsink paste on my shirt.
Quattrohead
Emperor Of Solar
A very long time ago in another world, I worked for a company that assembled units made from a full kit of parts. I don't think it was even to get around tariffs or whatever back then, it was just the most economical way of making that particular equipment.
We would get boxes with the different circuit boards etc in and other boxes with a ready-made shell for the finished unit.
Everything was assembled, tested and calibrated and then shipped out to our customers.
I imagine something similar could be happening here.
42OhmsPA
Who likes Electrical Gremlins?
I really hope that's the long term goal but it sure didn't sound that way in the video.
Edit to add - I'd be really interested in an assemble / finish yourself kit.... Regardless of warranty.
New Heathkit style Inverter and MPPT kits?
If there is much surface mount to do count me out....
42OhmsPA
Who likes Electrical Gremlins?
Had to look them up... I've said it before, I grew up in the wrong generation.
solarenvy
Solar Enthusiast
Wealthy US citizens -- esp the relative few that sit at the very top of capitalism -- have caused significantly more harm to this country than any foreign national evading and/or avoiding our laws. Not only have they mastered the art of avoidance, they lobby to change the laws to favor their profits. Our very own oligarchs bleed this country.
seneysolar
24V
The up in smoke forum would sure see an uptick
Any one remember the Ramsey kits? A board and bag of electronics and schematic. to build preamps and other devices. O wait a "schematic", some thing that use to come with all electronics, some thing you don't get with inverters now.
ksmithaz1
Solar / EV Junkie
H-8, H-19, H-11. Still have the logic probe somewhere.
robby
Electronic Engineer
- Joined
- May 1, 2021
- Messages
- 5,324
You forgot to mention the very first line of defense which is to have the Invoiced prices made up to suit your needs.As a business owner, I know how businesses and business owners operate. Many, many businesses operate on the very edge of the law.
Many operate outside of the law if the penalties are not too great. This is common knowledge.
If there is a crack in the "rules" we (businesses) will go through them. We don't make the laws. But we try and work with, and around them.
Don't confuse evasion with avoidance. There is a big gray area between these two things. Avoidance is legal. Evasion must include fraud and that can be very hard to prove.
Read this:
This is poised as "avoidance".
Preparing for New Trump Tariffs: 10 Approaches
Here are 10 ways to avoid, mitigate, or delay the costs of new tariffs that President-elect Trump has promised for countries like China, Canada, and Mexico:natlawreview.com
I've personally seen situations where the rules were bent much more than this, getting equipment in and out of China and Mexico.
This is like the number one Global Scam out of China. You want the Invoice to reflect a lower price, no problem, they take two separate payments. One official and one through another source.
The authorized shady dealing out of China is off the chart. The only rule is just make sure you are not robbing or embarrassing the CCP and anything else is allowed.
ghostwriter66
"Here - Hold my Beer"
My requirements At this point - from where I sit - is that the system is RELIABLE, (as in not so new that they have to send FIRMWARE updates 10 times a day mostly written in Chinese), and that I am NOT in the initial set of the "hey test our NEW system for us because we didn't test it at all" group, and that the company has at least ONE good technician that answers the phone/email and understands their own product better than me and understands how to deal with the customers trying to use it. (this is where 90% of these companies fail) .... and mostly it doesn't catch on fire under load -(been there - got that T-shirt - several times) - but those above variables checks about 99% of my requirements.
Its still mostly the wild west when it comes to these companies though -- they ARE getting smarter - except I still cringe every time a CEO or senior company rep gets on any forum to tell us anything (cause no matter how they try to explain anything - half the people are going to take it the wrong way) ... and still most of these guys are just marketing/sales companies getting their stuff out of the same Chinese plants where everyone else gets their stuff and learning about their products the same time we are ... Where they all get in trouble is when they pretend to be some great cutting-edge technology company who has reinvented the wheel for the 8th time.
Thats where SS got in trouble years ago. (If they had just said "hey we just sell the stuff, we have no idea how it works", then that would have been fine with me ... instead we got (or at least I did) "we are god-like experts at all things solar and if our stuff isn't working right than YOU the consumer did something wrong". - and then they ghost you ....
Its still mostly the wild west when it comes to these companies though -- they ARE getting smarter - except I still cringe every time a CEO or senior company rep gets on any forum to tell us anything (cause no matter how they try to explain anything - half the people are going to take it the wrong way) ... and still most of these guys are just marketing/sales companies getting their stuff out of the same Chinese plants where everyone else gets their stuff and learning about their products the same time we are ... Where they all get in trouble is when they pretend to be some great cutting-edge technology company who has reinvented the wheel for the 8th time.
Thats where SS got in trouble years ago. (If they had just said "hey we just sell the stuff, we have no idea how it works", then that would have been fine with me ... instead we got (or at least I did) "we are god-like experts at all things solar and if our stuff isn't working right than YOU the consumer did something wrong". - and then they ghost you ....
I think it would go a long way if companies would just use the term "Made in USA" correctly and not try to deceive people. One of the posts by a Midnite employee about this issue was probably the most honest I've seen how they basically said they try use as much as possible from the USA but have to use parts from other countries including China.. so they properly label some of their products "Assembled in USA".. since it is practically impossible to have something of the complexity of an all in one "Made in USA" today or anytime in the near future.
Lavarock7
New Member
A bit off topic, but "Made In America" reminds me of "Made in Hawaii". We fixed that lie. The State of Hawaii allowed companys to say a product was Made in Hawaii if 50% or more of its VALUE was added in the State. That meant that someone could import a product like Macadamia Nuts, crack them open and can them and since the products value was increase darmatically, theye were Made In Hawaii. Then came the Kona Coffee suit we filed. People sold 'Kona Coffee' that had little to no coffee from Koan Hawaii in it. That little class action suit was settled for $45 million dollars! I too was a recipient of that money.
I don't know how the Federal Government will handle items that originate in oen country but passed t oanother to show a different Country of Origin, but if the Feds decide to sue, I know a good lawyer!
Rednecktek
Expert Newbie
Then there will be all the calls about the RGB fans on the inverter won't sync up with the RGB fans on the MPPT and that the water block display only shows in Centigrade...
Dave911
Solar Addict
Its just not from China. Thats how its done period. China is no exception. If you read that link I provided that publisized "legal" ways to work the tariffs. It didnt specify China.
The logic is; what can we do to lower costs, and what happens if we get caught.
Businesses do what they can to skirt the laws and rules. If they dont, the guy next door will and they will lose.
James isnt setting up "manufacturing" because hes a great guy. Its a business decision. Dont let his flag waving fool you. He, like just about everyone else, are importing Chinese equipment and reselling it.
He's a distributor. Now he will partially assemble some things to skirt the tariffs.
Does that make him a manufacturer?
James wants you to think so, so you buy his stuff.
solarenvy
Solar Enthusiast
This is the status quo (as you mentioned). Though there are a few companies that will go out of their way to manufacture and operate in the USA and are very transparent about the cost premium for doing so. The consumer can decide how important that is to them.
I personally prioritize a US-based support presence in today's reality. I will absolutely buy American if the product is actually better, higher quality and I'm usually willing to pay the premium. Made in the USA is a feel-good incentive. Let's not fool ourselves -- ours is a services-based economy and our #1 product (and export) is services.
With that said -- companies that import components for US-based assembly and support (and perhaps some state side manufacturing) as EG4 is allegedly doing will only benefit their customers. It will mean their US-based engineering and support gain much deeper exposure and knowledge of system components and the intricacies of the finished product. This would be a welcome upgrade.
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