Elcheapo Hydraulic Hex crimper results, as expected...stick to Burndy mechanical indent crimps eh! Giggles

[TerryTtibbs]

Elcheapo Hydraulic Hex crimper results, as expected...stick to Burndy mechanical indent crimps eh!

Screenshot

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prnt.sc

$50 Amazon hydraulic crimpers.

Metric 35mm copper lug Be stamped.
35mm copper 1500VDC cable.

Cut carefully with a dremel grinding wheel. Was a bit eager in the first half of the cut so the grinding wheel anealed a bit, but the second half of the cut was nice and slow.

These are the results.

In summary probably 20% less CCC with a few months of corrosion than the rated cable probably leading to some kind of firework display if pushed hard with a 3KW+ peak invertor.

Im sticking to my Burndy Dieless Ident crimpers for guaranteed pressure crimp each time.

Just thought I would try them as plenty of Ben Shillers on YT pushing them hard.

Wouldn't be putting these to use on any of my gear unless its bonfire night!

 

[bwinzey]

Not sure how you got to the conclusion of 20% less conduction. That crimp looks perfectly fine.

I've been using one of those cheap hydraulic crimpers for a few years, built my 48v golf cart with 400a controller using it. Terminals have seen all sorts of water humidity and dirt for around 4 years and in perfect condition. Can ride it hard for hours and no heating whatsoever on the terminals.

Granted, the dies are really annoying to work with sometimes, especially using AWG, but the crimp itself is POWERFUL. If you step one die size down you will squeeze the terminal out the sides like play-doh, if what you want is a solid rod of copper, you can get it, just won't be as pretty as your $5k super duper crimper 9000. But then again, it costs $50 and you can find them for even less.

 

[TerryTtibbs]

Results using Genuine $840 Burndy MY29-11 dieless mechanical crimping tool.


"The complete compression of wire strands using a hexagonal crimp and standard crimping dies is not possible. This means standard hexagonal crimps are not gas-tight (see gas-tight oval crimps at the end of this article)."

Hexagonal v Indent Methods of Crimping - Cable Lugs, Crimps & Tools

THORNE & DERRICK are UK and international specialist distributors of LV, MV & HV Cable Installation, Jointing, Substation & Electrical Equipment – we service UK and global businesses involved in cable installations, cable jointing, substation, overhead line and electrical construction at LV...

www.powerandcables.com

https://media.province-electric.com/panduit/2021q3/documents/7bf5ba299d2ad73bae6683d24ff7d30255953eea.pdf

 

[Steve_S]

The Hydraulic Crimpers are fine but where most issues occur is the misunderstanding between their being Metric and those using AWG Wire.
Sealed lugs with completely closed ends are indeed gastight. Several companies make/sell these types but not all are the same. Some have dies which fit very tight & snug within the crimper jaws and always produce a good crimp, where as some others allow the dies to "float" a bit which can easily mess up a crimp if not cautious. BTW: That is easy to fix by using a softwood shim between the die & cast frame.

CRIMPER DIE CONVERSION
Die Size mm/AWG/
4mm/12awg
6mm/10awg
8mm/9awg
10mm/8awg
(16mm/6awg/250mcm)
(25mm/4awg/300mcm)
(35mm,2awg/350mcm)
(50mm,1/0awg/500mcm)
(70mm,2/0awg/600mcm)

 

[HRTKD]

As Steve said, die selection is critical. Too small a die and you get wings on the lug and perhaps break/crack the lug. Too large a die and you get loose crimps.

My $119 hydraulic crimper has produced excellent crimps. I would argue that your quote is wrong. Hydraulic hex crimps can be gas tight.

With regard to the pictures posted, your dieless crimper seems to be doing a good job. However, any process that cuts the cable can "smear" the wires within the cable making the crimp look better than it is. Which means that crimps seen in the pictures in the first post may be worse than they look.

 

[TerryTtibbs]

As Steve said, die selection is critical. Too small a die and you get wings on the lug and perhaps break/crack the lug. Too large a die and you get loose crimps.

My $119 hydraulic crimper has produced excellent crimps. I would argue that your quote is wrong. Hydraulic hex crimps can be gas tight.

With regard to the pictures posted, your dieless crimper seems to be doing a good job. However, any process that cuts the cable can "smear" the wires within the cable making the crimp look better than it is. Which means that crimps seen in the pictures in the first post may be worse than they look.

Yes, I was a bit impatient and a grinding wheel is the worst choice. Regarding the Hex crimp being gas tight is not correct from the papers I have read. In reality it probably doesn't matter as your not running in the KA or KV DC teritory. Further reading on the link in previous post which suggests that HEX will never give gas tight as the crompression can never be enough in the centre without deformation of the crimp. It's interesting stuff but for most DIY 48V 30KW max systems I can't see it being a problem unless you are welding with both hands and both feet whilst charging your EV from your off grid battery bank with multiple stacked invertors.

 

[Steve_S]

unless you are welding with both hands and both feet whilst charging your EV from your off grid battery bank with multiple stacked invertors.

Gee Wiz, Thanks for that mental image ! Good One lol
But, in the context of our application which is mostly < 48V, even the occasional 72V this is fine.
There is however a bit of a game change coming and fairly soon, high DC Voltage systems for residential & small commercial, how that will trickle into the DIY segment should be interesting as that crosses some rules & regs in different places.

I should have mentioned though in my previous post, while these hydraulic crimpers most of us are using are not HD Commercial Grade which are Big $$, there is a bit of a learning curve to get it right (remember the softwood shim comment) but , that's part of the DIY game isn't it... hehehe It's all a part of the Adventure.

 

[WYtreasure]

This may not work for the OP because dies are AWG.
Chi-eep doesn't always work, much less work well.
I spent $150 on TemCo 11 ton hydraulic crimpers with 16 AWG dies & 16 AWG half-size dies. I am very pleased with the product.

The link below is to some good and quick reading on crimping tools.

Crimping Tools Selection Guide

temcoindustrial.com

 

[TerryTtibbs]

Gee Wiz, Thanks for that mental image ! Good One lol
But, in the context of our application which is mostly < 48V, even the occasional 72V this is fine.
There is however a bit of a game change coming and fairly soon, high DC Voltage systems for residential & small commercial, how that will trickle into the DIY segment should be interesting as that crosses some rules & regs in different places.

I should have mentioned though in my previous post, while these hydraulic crimpers most of us are using are not HD Commercial Grade which are Big $$, there is a bit of a learning curve to get it right (remember the softwood shim comment) but , that's part of the DIY game isn't it... hehehe It's all a part of the Adventure.

Absolutley and to be honest my whole system was designed around 24KWh batteries with 6 MPPT victrons for low current and VDC loss and Multiplus II, with all arrays in series of only 2 panels per string even though the strings are next to each other. Full granualar control of all the 12 PV panels.

My 3 primary reason's for this design were,

1. No regs at under 120VDC ripple free, making it much easier with no registration and no hassle from red tape crap.
2. Ever since I shorted out a 3 phase AC incoming (which was supposed to be isolated, (I now carry a non contact VAC tester and DMM for testing Live everytime I do stuff). into a commercial building supply (30 years ago) with a NON insulated non VDE screwdriver taking a massive chunk out of the conductor, destroying my chineesium screwdriver and not getting one shock, counting myself extremely lucky to still be here. It was a bit of a Tom & Jerry moment. Didn't even have time to crap my pants it happened that fast. So @80VDC PV @ 12A and maybe 92VDC 15A in winter just makes me sleep at night and lets the dog chew on the PV cables without getting too upset.
3. Massive shading problems and buildings all over the place so multiple MPPT is the only solution.

Running this setup for a days now and it's performing well.

The big DC stuff i'm not keen on, same with the EV's. If you catch an exhaust manifold you get a burn, if you knick a fuel hose and are smoking a fag you loose your eyebrows........... If you crash into a river in an EV with soon to be 1200VDC system with thermal runaway then your eyebrows are the least of your concerns.

Just like I don't like my neighbour having gas as he/she can't even tie their own shoe laces so to speak. All things that are out of my control. But electric DC is scary compared to AC IMO.

 

[TerryTtibbs]

This may not work for the OP because dies are AWG.
Chi-eep doesn't always work, much less work well.
I spent $150 on TemCo 11 ton hydraulic crimpers with 16 AWG dies & 16 AWG half-size dies. I am very pleased with the product.

The link below is to some good and quick reading on crimping tools.

Crimping Tools Selection Guide

temcoindustrial.com

The dies in the Hex are all metric, lugs were also metric over here in UK.

 

[TerryTtibbs]

The true test!

 

[HRTKD]

I tried to pull my cables out of my lugs for all it was worth, because I figure a bad crimp might impact my life. Zero failures, and I got a good workout.

 

[TerryTtibbs]

I tried to pull my cables out of my lugs for all it was worth, because I figure a bad crimp might impact my life. Zero failures, and I got a good workout.

Jim,

Did you hang your dog from it? Tow your car with it? It needs sufficient pull force! Then you need to get 4 arc welders and create a sufficient current draw and test for hotspots using a thermal camera!!

 

[WYtreasure]

This is funny. @HRTKD Are you sure you have done this before?

I'm going to pee myself if this keeps up.

 

[TerryTtibbs]

This is funny. @HRTKD Are you sure you have done this before?

I'm going to pee myself if this keeps up.

Imagine if this goes viral, and everyone in the world goes out to their install and starts pulling cables out of lugs. Installers will be bankrupt on warranty callouts and there will be lots of barking dogs.

 

[bwinzey]

Think of it this way, you could use the cable to jump start cars AND tow them... At the same time! Talk about transfer of energy

 

[LithiumCanuck]

Am I the only one here welding his connectors? ?

 

[HRTKD]

Jim,

Did you hang your dog from it? Tow your car with it? It needs sufficient pull force! Then you need to get 4 arc welders and create a sufficient current draw and test for hotspots using a thermal camera!!

While I have reviewed the YouTube video on TIG welding copper (got the certificate!), I have yet to take it on. Apparently welding copper is one of those things that is sufficiently rare that if you read between the lines, it's not normal.

Given the price of copper, there will be no sacrificial 2/0 cables/lugs offered up for the sake of proving I have my shit together. Maybe we can get the Project Farm guy on YouTube to do it.

 

[TerryTtibbs]

While I have reviewed the YouTube video on TIG welding copper (got the certificate!), I have yet to take it on. Apparently welding copper is one of those things that is sufficiently rare that if you read between the lines, it's not normal.

Given the price of copper, there will be no sacrificial 2/0 cables/lugs offered up for the sake of proving I have my shit together. Maybe we can get the Project Farm guy on YouTube to do it.

Crimp, Weld then solder!

 

[WYtreasure]

Imagine if this goes viral, and everyone in the world goes out to their install and starts pulling cables out of lugs. Installers will be bankrupt on warranty callouts and there will be lots of barking dogs.

I seem to remember reading some posts about how @HRTKD tested his crimps "BEFORE" attaching lugs to terminals.

I'm missing something here, or you're farther out there than I am. That really does take some effort, read my signature - bottom line.