Electrical Terrorism OR Valuable Feedback?

[Old_Skewler]

Everything I seem to learn on the forums from my research or from reading from other posts, when I share with a co-worker Electrical Engineer he turns into a "no-go no-can't" convoluted response, which makes me feel like I can't move forward or make any progress with my project.

I can't tell if he is following the NEC codes to the dot OR if he is just not up to date with the off-grid stuff.

For instance, I just shared with him that I am finally ordering (1) SunGoldPower AIO Inverter + (1) EG4 48V 100Ah battery, to which he replied, word to word as follows:

A BMS takes the positive and negative wires from the inverter/charger and places tap conductors between the cells in a string to allow eddy currents to avoid the hotspots on the feeder lead conductors and also operate the liquid cooling/heating where applicable.


EG4 makes the BMS and provides a handshake to their inverter then the BMS controls the inverter preventing the battery from exploding due to heating. Using a third party inverter you don't have that and can cause a fire hazard.

The other option is hacking involves removing the EG4 tap board & the BMS module to one that is compatible with the inverter (when using a third party inverter). There is typically 8 tap conductors and 2 thermistors (temperature sensors).



This is one tap board option that is designed to work with scrap model x and S battery packs


https://stealthev.com/product/tesla-model-s-x-battery-module-bms-cell-tap-board-2/

I don't think you fully grasp that you can't use a third party inverter unless you due diligence to get a BMS connection proper. That is why I am suggesting using FLA batteries.

It is extremely confusing and frustrating because I keep talking to forum members and reading about people successfully making these installations. I even asked the EG4 Supplier @RichardfromEG4 if I could use a third party inverter and no issues were raised.

Could someone with more experience read the quote above and let me know your thoughts? Should I be concerned about connecting a EG4 battery to a third-party inverter charger (SunGoldPower)?

 

[rhino]

The EG4 is completely self contained system to protect itself. The worse that can happen with "non supported inverter" is the EG4 shuts power off abruptly because of misconfigured inverter. Your co-worker doesn't seem to understand how these server rack systems work.

 

[Rennit]

Your buddy said that? That's all nonsense. You can put the eg4 batteries to any inverter, as long as the voltages match and you will need to program the inverter to the right charge settings.

I wouldn't be talking to somebody that's that far off on how things are.

 

[Old_Skewler]

I reached out straight to EG4 and they didn’t seem to be concerned nearly as much as you are: Their response was: “I actually haven't worked with those SGP directly, but a majority of inverters are from a small number of manufacturers with minor changes, and based on the form factor (depending on which model you are talking about) I don't see any issues.”

To which he replied:

I wouldn't buy it - why do they have a comm wire between their inverter and their battery if its not important?

 

[AntronX]

A lot of times electricians do things because the code book says so and not due to inherent understanding of electrical systems. And they are arrogant because "i got mah license".

 

[Old_Skewler]

The EG4 is completely self contained system to protect itself. The worse that can happen with "non supported inverter" is the EG4 shuts power off abruptly because of misconfigured inverter. Your co-worker doesn't seem to understand how these server rack systems work.

Imagine me, a complete newbie on the subject, trying to sort this out and getting totally mixed signals from a person that is working with me installing Tesla Megapacks and Solar Farms in NYS?

This is insane from my perspective and I just know that I do not know enough to gauge what is valid or not.

Thank you for the feedback.

 

[Old_Skewler]

Your buddy said that? That's all nonsense. You can put the eg4 batteries to any inverter, as long as the voltages match and you will need to program the inverter to the right charge settings.

I wouldn't be talking to somebody that's that far off on how things are.

I am coming to the same conclusion. I feel like I wasted a solid 6 months trying to get him to guide me finding a good off-grid solution for my cabin but instead he terrorized me. Literally. "Everything will explode. Nothing is possible. Nothing will work". Constantly.

 

[Old_Skewler]

A lot of times electricians do things because the code book says so and not due to inherent understanding of electrical systems. And they are arrogant because "i got mah license".

I am getting the sense this is actually happening. But from my perspective, I have very little confidence or leverage to argue and disagree, since this is all new to me and I have close to zero experience with these systems.

 

[rhino]

Sounds like this person is simply not familiar with consumer systems and what is available today and I would not listen to this person anymore relating to residential systems. More concerning that this person didn't even spend the time to look up exactly what an EG4 or similar is and instead spouts nonsense.

 

[Steve_S]

he replied, word to word as follows:

He has proven Incompetence & Ignorance in one simple shot over the bow of the sinking boat.
Leave that BOZO on the roadside & move forward.

Mentioning that this "character" is involved rid Bcups etc, IS VERY BAD ! for anyone on THAT grid.
Dump that moron in the nearest ditch and don;t bother talking with that fool again.

I am AN ENGINEER and retired and do know a bit about this field. Get away from fools.

 

[Old_Skewler]

Sounds like this person is simply not familiar with consumer systems and what is available today and I would not listen to this person anymore relating to residential systems. More concerning that this person didn't even spend the time to look up exactly what an EG4 or similar is and instead spouts nonsense.

I totally see this now. My original intent was to "discover" as much as possible on the forums and then double-check the information with him, after all this science could be intimidating at first. I just felt like this was a good plan to also have an electrical engineer that I know in person overseeing my steps.

I guess my intent was good but the person I picked was wrong.

 

[Old_Skewler]

He has proven Incompetence & Ignorance in one simple shot over the bow of the sinking boat.
Leave that BOZO on the roadside & move forward.

That's it for me, I ain't asking him for any help with my cabin power... Unfortunately we have to work together on larger projects and I am losing my confidence in his ability to perform... That is something aside that I will need to deal with...

 

[Steve_S]

Unfortunately we have to work together

I suggest that you take an "Arms Length" from anything this character does with DC Systems. You do not want to get crapped on cause he buggers up. I am sorry but this will now make your work situation a tad "danky" with this guy being there. I suggest that as you proceed with your Cabin & the Solar system, you no longer involve him in "any" discussion on the subject anymore.

The EG4 Batteries are fine per Will's & Others videos of teardowns & abuse tests, so no worries with that.
Sungold Power... well they are a Value Grade "car inverter" company (VAR at that, being a Value Added Reseller) at first and I am sorry but MPP or Growatt are far ahead there and worth a few extra pennies today. The alternative is a LOT of pennies later and that's never good.

Take deep slow breaths and think it over. BTW I have not followed your entire journey here just bits & bobs as I'm lurking more now than before... bit of burnout & too many projects now that the snow has finally gone.

PS BTW: I'm also Steve_S on Small_Cabins that replied to your thread there. ;-)
double gypsum - ooff. Look for Magnesium Oxide Sheets (1/2 the cost of Cement Fibreboard) Fireproof to 3000 deg Celsius, attach with screws like drywall. Makes ideal tile backer & tile underlay as well, completely neutral & hydrophobic and will not absorb any moisture. Most BIG BOX building places carry some version of it.

 

[Horsefly]

Everything I seem to learn on the forums from my research or from reading from other posts, when I share with a co-worker Electrical Engineer he turns into a "no-go no-can't" convoluted response, which makes me feel like I can't move forward or make any progress with my project.

I can't tell if he is following the NEC codes to the dot OR if he is just not up to date with the off-grid stuff.

For instance, I just shared with him that I am finally ordering (1) SunGoldPower AIO Inverter + (1) EG4 48V 100Ah battery, to which he replied, word to word as follows:



It is extremely confusing and frustrating because I keep talking to forum members and reading about people successfully making these installations. I even asked the EG4 Supplier @RichardfromEG4 if I could use a third party inverter and no issues were raised.

Could someone with more experience read the quote above and let me know your thoughts? Should I be concerned about connecting a EG4 battery to a third-party inverter charger (SunGoldPower)?

As an Electrical Engineer myself, I think your friend is an embarrassment to our profession. There's lots wrong with what he said, but here's a bottom line: A LiFePO4 battery (equipped with an appropriate BMS) can be used just like an FLA, although with a bit different charger settings.

Engineers are sometimes anal about risks that they know about, but generally we should avoid talking about things we know nothing about.

 

[Old_Skewler]

Sungold Power... well they are a Value Grade "car inverter" company (VAR at that, being a Value Added Reseller) at first and I am sorry but MPP or Growatt are far ahead there and worth a few extra pennies today. The alternative is a LOT of pennies later and that's never good.

I had locked my design with Magna Power Inverter 4448 + MagnaSine Solar Charger PT-100 + Magna AGS Genstarter + Magna MPP Central Panel. I was confident and happy with the selection, despite the final price tag of $4,500 going to Sensata. But my plans got de-railed once I realized their inverters are backordered over a year...

I understand SunGoldPower is a downgrade but it works with the current budget and it happens to be in stock. My application calls for a 48V-240V split phase inverter and the next one on the list would be Growatt and I thought they had an even worse reputation from being chinese made...

Here is my post regarding my specs:

Equipment Selection, based on SunGoldPower

PS BTW: I'm also Steve_S on Small_Cabins that replied to your thread there. ;-)
double gypsum - ooff. Look for Magnesium Oxide Sheets (1/2 the cost of Cement Fibreboard) Fireproof to 3000 deg Celsius, attach with screws like drywall. Makes ideal tile backer & tile underlay as well, completely neutral & hydrophobic and will not absorb any moisture. Most BIG BOX building places carry some version of it.

Good to know! Thanks for the help with the shed!

 

[John Frum]

Sounds like Deepak Chopra.

 

[Steve_S]

SunGold is VALUE GRADE or Tier-3
Growatt & MPP have Tier-1 & Tier-2 product
Samlex, Magnum, Victron etc are all Tier-1.

I thought they had an even worse reputation from being chinese made...

That toasts me from helping you anymore. Toss your computer, power tools and everything else made in china, you will need a small shack and not much space for stuff. BuhBye

 

[Old_Skewler]

SunGold is VALUE GRADE or Tier-3
Growatt & MPP have Tier-1 & Tier-2 product
Samlex, Magnum, Victron etc are all Tier-1.

That toasts me from helping you anymore. Toss your computer, power tools and everything else made in china, you will need a small shack and not much space for stuff. BuhBye

A few posts on the forum about issues with Growatt and being not so reliable, hence my hesitation to consider them.

And even less posts about SunGold in the forums, but I suspect because they are not a popular brand.

 

[rhino]

PS BTW: I'm also Steve_S on Small_Cabins that replied to your thread there. ;-)
double gypsum - ooff. Look for Magnesium Oxide Sheets (1/2 the cost of Cement Fibreboard) Fireproof to 3000 deg Celsius, attach with screws like drywall. Makes ideal tile backer & tile underlay as well, completely neutral & hydrophobic and will not absorb any moisture. Most BIG BOX building places carry some version of it.

Have link to that Small Cabin forum? I've been looking for those sheets and can't find them anywhere. Also thought it would be useful for battery boxes.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

EG4 BMS is 100% self contained. It doesn't need to communicate with an inverter at all to operate. He's just plain wrong there - is this an EE who actually has looked at our batteries (or LiFePo batteries with BMS integration in general) or is he a guy who is theorizing how this stuff works? I'm sorry, but as a person who works with 100's of solar installers, manufacturers, and distributors, I'd likely not do business with that person because of just how wrong he is. It's scary and I wouldn't trust him to do anything right if he has such a fundamental misunderstanding of how these systems work.

To which he replied:

His reply is comical. Honestly, if you really want system design help, call EG4's partner, Signature Solar. They literally have a team who will walk you through how to understand your loads, what to buy, and put it together. Even if you aren't using their inverters.