Endless Pool off grid setup

[Robkh]

I am getting installation of an Endless Pool - I am in Phoenix, AZ.
Energy need estimate from the company:
1. Water Quality System - 1.0 hp circulation pump and 4kW electric heater. Assume the filtration cycles are going for 6 hrs/day and heating for 4 hrs/day (of those six):

• 1.0 hp circulation pump (~5.5 A @ 220 V = 1.2 kW) running 6 hrs/day = ~7 kWh/day
• 4kW Heater for 4 hrs/day = ~16 kWh/day mostly in Winter months
• Assume the other items tied to the controller, like keypad functions – including the timed filtration cycle control, and LED lights maybe ~1 kWh/day

2. Swim current uses a 5.0 hp electric motor, and if swimming at a moderate effort, it might draw an average of 18 A @ 220 V = ~4.0 kW And, for 2.5 hrs/day yields ~10 kWh/day

3. Automatic retractable cover energy needs <1kW for ~20 seconds at a time to open/close, and the cover pump significantly less than that, because only when rain accumulates.

Total consumption in a high use application ~35 kWh/day.

I believe a 5000 watt solar array can deliver 30 kWh/day and more may be needed. What battery size does anyone recommend?
If I swim in the Winter during the day, the solar array may be enough but my concern is using the pool at night in the Winter, when the sun is down and I need to run this off battery. This will be an off grid system.

Thanks for you input

 

[A.Justice]

I would suggest using solar (like vacuum tubes or a black panel), gas, or wood to heat the pool, during winter especially. Most people would also choose to only run their pool during the day while there is sun. Otherwise, you're going to need a massive battery bank for winter or evening operation. I've seen some very effective passive solar pool heaters, that were built on a tight budget.

A 5 horse motor COULD (but not always will) draw 10x (150+ amps @ 220v) the rated current on surge. If you are running large electric motors, you absolutely have to have a low frequency inverter, and it's going to need to be pretty large. A soft starter might be worth looking into (not sure if they sell 5hp variable speed pumps at a reasonable price, I've never seen one).

I've done quite a few variable speed pump installations, and they really do save a bunch of power when used properly. They also don't have a large inrush, and most of them are able to be controlled remotely, so they could be shut off automatically if there's no solar coming in, or at least turned down substantially while on battery power. A lot of times it's cheaper to buy the variable speed pump, than is to attempt to run a larger single speed one on batteries. Of course, that depends on lots of variables, and the cost-effectiveness can vary from system to system.

 

[Robkh]

I would suggest using solar (like vacuum tubes or a black panel), gas, or wood to heat the pool, during winter especially. Most people would also choose to only run their pool during the day while there is sun. Otherwise, you're going to need a massive battery bank for winter or evening operation. I've seen some very effective passive solar pool heaters, that were built on a tight budget.

A 5 horse motor COULD (but not always will) draw 10x (150+ amps @ 220v) the rated current on surge. If you are running large electric motors, you absolutely have to have a low frequency inverter, and it's going to need to be pretty large. A soft starter might be worth looking into (not sure if they sell 5hp variable speed pumps at a reasonable price, I've never seen one).

I've done quite a few variable speed pump installations, and they really do save a bunch of power when used properly. They also don't have a large inrush, and most of them are able to be controlled remotely, so they could be shut off automatically if there's no solar coming in, or at least turned down substantially while on battery power. A lot of times it's cheaper to buy the variable speed pump, than is to attempt to run a larger single speed one on batteries. Of course, that depends on lots of variables, and the cost-effectiveness can vary from system to system.

Thanks. The entire setup with the 4kw water heater, swim current motor is already part of the Endless Pool purchased package.

 

[Shimmy]

You should be able to pull the fuses on the heating element, and I believe they have an option for an external water heating source connection. Otherwise your Endles Pool will have a system comparable to that for a small house.

 

[A.Justice]

Otherwise your Endles Pool will have a system comparable to that for a small house.

My whole house uses 30-60 kWh a day depending on the season.

 

[Robkh]

My whole house uses 30-60 kWh a day depending on the season.

Mine uses 45 kWh a day in winter and 80 kWh a day in the hot Summer.

 

[PopDBop]

I've done quite a few variable speed pump installations, and they really do save a bunch of power when used properly. They also don't have a large inrush, and most of them are able to be controlled remotely, so they could be shut off automatically if there's no solar coming in, or at least turned down substantially while on battery power. A lot of times it's cheaper to buy the variable speed pump, than is to attempt to run a larger single speed one on batteries. Of course, that depends on lots of variables, and the cost-effectiveness can vary from system to system.

I've been looking at Variable Speed pool pumps for a 20,000 Gal pool on solar. I'd probably have a dedicated solar setup just for the pump, separate from the house system.

You say you've installed quite a few VS pumps? What could you recommend that ramps up it's starting current? The current DE filter design flow rate is 72GPM at a max pressure of 50psi. I'm considering changing out the old DE filter for a more efficient and lower flow rate cartridge filter, especially if it makes selecting a lower power pool much easier. Since it's going to be a separate system, perhaps an 240vac inverter is the better choice than a 120vac system.

 

[Robkh]

The 5 HP pump runs the swim current for the Endless Pool and is built in and cannot be switched out. To get over the inrush surge that could overwhelm a high frequency inverter, I wonder if placing a Soft Start on the power line could reduce the surge to tolerable levels. I see that Will Prowse addresses the issue of dampening the amperage surge of his conventional air conditioner with a Soft Start in his latest video.
Any thoughts on using Soft Start with a swim current 5 HP pump?