Enphase Grid-Tied & Roof-Mounted Solar System - The Beginning

[zzyzx]

Now that the Federal 26% tax credit has been extended through the end of 2022 and having given up hope of ever seeing the IQ8 microinverter (yes, I know it is due out this year - maybe), I have decided to begin the research and implementation of an Enphase system while this tax credit is in effect. Ultimately, I hope to add a "reasonably" priced battery (maybe DIY) to harvest solar energy for use during times the grid is down.

I'm hoping that the knowledge and experience of members on this forum will help me navigate the dangerous (and confusing )waters of a grid-tied & roof-mounted Enphase system. All comments are greatly appreciated.

My utility company is Southern California Edison, with a 3-tier usage-based rate:

Tier 1 (up to 100% baseline) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $0.22 per kWh
Tier 2 (101% to 400% baseline) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $0.28 per kWh
High Usage Charge (above 400% baseline) . . . $0.35 per kWh

Over the last two years of grid-tied power, my usage has been:

2019 . . . 6194kWh TOTAL . . . 516kWh AVERAGE MONTHLY . . . 775kWh MONTHLY HIGH (Sep) . . . 403kWh MONTHLY LOW (Mar)
2020 . . . 6580kWh TOTAL . . . 548kWh AVERAGE MONTHLY . . . 779kWh MONTHLY HIGH (Aug) . . . 388kWh MONTHLY LOW (Dec)

As I wish to get some initial quotes to help determine a cost baseline, let's start with:

QUESTION #1 : Should I directly contact local, highly rated installers for quotes or get quotes through EnergySage?

My thinking is both. Since EnergySage is a marketplace, they make money charging installers a "commission" on installed kilowatts. Thus, this is a "zero-sum" game, where A=B+C. The buyer is "A", installer is "B" and the marketplace is "C". Since companies that quote me directly will not be able to quote me through the marketplace, I should be able to compare the quotes I receive from both ways, giving me a better look at competitiveness. Does this make sense?

Please share any and all thoughts, guidelines, things to "do" and things to "avoid". I am in serious "SPONGE" mode.

 

[donaldbitterman]

Why Enphase? I am leaning going that route on the DIY path myself, but only because of some of my system specifics (very small system w/ used panels, etc.)

A 3.2 kw array will net your usage to 0 (not sure if you are in one of the spots where NEM1 is still open, RIverside county, etc)

Tesla's smallest system is 4 kw, and the cost looks to be lowest by a long shot. It is a bit oversized by .8 KW, but I am ignoring conversion loses, etc so it is likely spot on with what you need.
=5.6 sun hours*365 days*4000 W/1000 W/KW=8176 KW-Hr

They seem like a slam dunk for a retailer installed system to me.

 

[zzyzx]

Why Enphase? I am leaning going that route on the DIY path myself, but only because of some of my system specifics (very small system w/ used panels, etc.)

Years ago, Enphase announced the IQ8 (I'm still waiting ), which supposedly will allow you to create a microgrid . . . the ability to harvest electricity when the sun shines and feed it into your house wiring SAFELY, while the grid is down and under repair. It would also NOT require an expensive powerwall. That got my attention. Also, because of roof shading (thanks HOA), the microinverters and simple wiring convinced me at the time. They also have a well-thought out architecture; implementation, however, is still a serious work-in-process.

A 3.2 kw array will net your usage to 0 (not sure if you are in one of the spots where NEM1 is still open, RIverside county, etc)

I'm in Orange County. Net metering . . . TOU . . . now NEM2.0 with NEM3.0 being discussed, with rollout due in 2022. And there is no info available on what it will be. Most certainly will not benefit customers. I'm trying not to think about it.

 

[donaldbitterman]

Years ago, Enphase announced the IQ8 (I'm still waiting ), which supposedly will allow you to create a microgrid . . . the ability to harvest electricity when the sun shines and feed it into your house wiring SAFELY, while the grid is down and under repair. It would also NOT require an expensive powerwall. That got my attention. Also, because of roof shading (thanks HOA), the microinverters and simple wiring convinced me at the time. They also have a well-thought out architecture; implementation, however, is still a serious work-in-process.

I'm in Orange County. Net metering . . . TOU . . . now NEM2.0 with NEM3.0 being discussed, with rollout due in 2022. And there is no info available on what it will be. Most certainly will not benefit customers. I'm trying not to think about it.

That stinks about the HOA locking your system into a suboptimal spot.

I'm in the same boat, want to catch NEM2 before it goes to something worse.

It looks like that iq8 is coming out Q3 this year, they only sell direct to "certified installers" but I can buy it through a few resellers.

 

[GXMnow]

Most of the NEM 2.0 agreements will take you off of tiered power and put you on "Time of Use" billing. I have Southern California Edison and there is no option other than TOU now with solar.

My original system which went online in late July 2019 is 16 x 300 watt panels on Enphase iQ7 microinverters. That is 4,800 watts of DC panel, and almost 3,900 watts maximum out of the iQ7's. That tops out my 16 amps to a 20 amp breaker in my existing 100 amp panel. I do have a decent near south facing roof, and only get a little shading in very early morning and late evening. My system produced 7,900 KWH's in 2020. I topped 900 KWH in May, well over 800 KWH in June and July. Jan is my worst month, the system made 432 KWH.

I used a local installer who knew the codes and inspectors in my area. The permitting and inspection can be a pain. Even knowing all the details, we still had one small problem. My home is quite a bit older than most he did. My original breaker panel was not properly grounded to current code. So they had to add 2 grounding rods. Held up getting my system online about a week. During intense sun and heat in July, paying full price to run my A/C. Ugh!

I did have one cheaper quote, but these guys worked with me and repaired a section of my garage roof as part of the install. The cheaper quote guy had not dome a system in my town, so probably would have had more install issues. These guys also did a very clean install. There is no visible wiring outside of the house. Just one conduit in my garage, and the combiner and disconnect on the wall outside next to my breaker panel. They showed my pics of the other installs and they looked as good as what they did for me. None of the other guys showed me their previous work.

Certainly but the system. Lease deals stink, and power purchase is even worse.

I added battery storage to my system about 7 months ago. Storage is not cheap and will not pay for itself. It is a cost to have backup power. If you get a system that can power shift with "Time of Use" rates, it can shave some cost off, and help pay for the battery bank, but do not expect the extra cost to pay off. My first year with solar alone, my total electric cost was about cut in half, even though the system made 80% of the power I use. The time of use rates, and being taxed different sure suck into the savings. With the battery, and storing energy so all of my peak rate power is from solar / battery now, I expect to cut my bill another 15-20% this year. Feb-March 2021 was my first full month where my net usage was only about 40 KWH's from SCE, and 628 KWH's was supplied from the solar. I have not had a negative month, but I do have several negative usage days.

My battery bank can store about 15 KWH's but I am only cycling about 7.5 KWH and keeping about 50% on tap in case of a grid failure or (safety shut off). We have at least one member on this forum with the Enphase Ensemble storage system, and one guy running an OutBack SkyBox with Enphase iQ inverters. My system is using a Schneider XW-Pro battery inverter. The Schneider works great for backup, but does not do the power time shifting on it's own. I am having issues dealing with their tech support as well. If I was doing it all over again, I think the SkyBox is a better add on storage solution, but it is less powerful. How much do you need to run during a power failure?

 

[zzyzx]

Most of the NEM 2.0 agreements will take you off of tiered power and put you on "Time of Use" billing. I have Southern California Edison and there is no option other than TOU now with solar.

Yes, so I started reading about TOU a few months back and have been reading your posts as well. What you are doing is quite admirable, learning all the nuances, how to "play" the game to maximize benefit, while the utilities continue to make it difficult to understand AND continually take away customer benefits of having solar.

I used a local installer who knew the codes and inspectors in my area. The permitting and inspection can be a pain. Even knowing all the details, we still had one small problem. My home is quite a bit older than most he did. My original breaker panel was not properly grounded to current code. So they had to add 2 grounding rods

My home was built in 1977, but I'm sure there will probably be additional things that need to be done as well. It's just a process; I'm very patient, like when my 2-month kitchen remodel took 7. One step at a time ( ? ).

I used a local installer who knew the codes and inspectors in my area. The permitting and inspection can be a pain.

Yes, to me THAT is the critical part. And that's why I'm interested in how people select their installer. Any thoughts on using EnergySage?

How much do you need to run during a power failure?

And that is a questions I can't answer. With or without wife?

 

[Ampster]

Should I directly contact local, highly rated installers for quotes or get quotes through EnergySage?

Yes get as many quotes as you can. As suggested above, [f you are not stuck on Enphase and want the lowest price go online to Tesla.com and see if one of their cookie cutter systems would meet your needs. Their prices are about $2 per Watt.

 

[Ampster]

Yes, to me THAT is the critical part. And that's why I'm interested in how people select their installer. Any thoughts on using EnergySage?

I have had five systems installed, two by myself DIY and two by installers that I picked from sources where I used to live. When I moved to a home in Northern California I used Pick My Solar and the contractor that had the best price was excellent. I am not sure it was the best value in the marketplace. I have since learned what you concluded about the zero sum game. However I also have no desire to go through the the process of DIY and I will probably give Tesla a try for a GT system on the roof of the next home. . I have done what @GXMnow has done and subsequently installed a hybrid system DIY but it is behind the meter and power company approval is not required, just a building permit. It compliments my GT system.

 

[svetz]

QUESTION #1 : Should I directly contact local, highly rated installers for quotes or get quotes through EnergySage?

In SoCal I'd call EVERYONE, and get quotes. There's a lot of solar there and they might not be on the ES lists and for the reasons you mentioned. Definitely check the BBB to see the complaints lodged against them. What I see most often is the county enforces a quality install, but there's no follow-up support from the installer leaving you to call the manufacturer to deal with issues (also a good reason to go Enphase, if you call them they have great tech support (emails not so much)). Don't have Sol-Arc, but have heard good things about them too.

If there's one installer I like more (but not their price), I'd use information from the other quotes to ask about "discounts". If you're up on the DIY, then bird-dogging even a mediocre vendor can prevent problems. My county was really good about making the vendor enforce the code, just make sure to work with the inspectors (they're your best friends in these instances). See also from the FAQ entries: What should you pay for a Solar Installation? And finally, once you sign the contract, let us know how you did so that FAQ entry can be updated. ;-)

 

[solar8484]

Now that the Federal 26% tax credit has been extended through the end of 2022 and having given up hope of ever seeing the IQ8 microinverter (yes, I know it is due out this year - maybe), I have decided to begin the research and implementation of an Enphase system while this tax credit is in effect. Ultimately, I hope to add a "reasonably" priced battery (maybe DIY) to harvest solar energy for use during times the grid is down.

I'm hoping that the knowledge and experience of members on this forum will help me navigate the dangerous (and confusing )waters of a grid-tied & roof-mounted Enphase system. All comments are greatly appreciated.

My utility company is Southern California Edison, with a 3-tier usage-based rate:

Tier 1 (up to 100% baseline) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $0.22 per kWh
Tier 2 (101% to 400% baseline) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $0.28 per kWh
High Usage Charge (above 400% baseline) . . . $0.35 per kWh

Over the last two years of grid-tied power, my usage has been:

2019 . . . 6194kWh TOTAL . . . 516kWh AVERAGE MONTHLY . . . 775kWh MONTHLY HIGH (Sep) . . . 403kWh MONTHLY LOW (Mar)
2020 . . . 6580kWh TOTAL . . . 548kWh AVERAGE MONTHLY . . . 779kWh MONTHLY HIGH (Aug) . . . 388kWh MONTHLY LOW (Dec)

As I wish to get some initial quotes to help determine a cost baseline, let's start with:

QUESTION #1 : Should I directly contact local, highly rated installers for quotes or get quotes through EnergySage?

My thinking is both. Since EnergySage is a marketplace, they make money charging installers a "commission" on installed kilowatts. Thus, this is a "zero-sum" game, where A=B+C. The buyer is "A", installer is "B" and the marketplace is "C". Since companies that quote me directly will not be able to quote me through the marketplace, I should be able to compare the quotes I receive from both ways, giving me a better look at competitiveness. Does this make sense?

Please share any and all thoughts, guidelines, things to "do" and things to "avoid". I am in serious "SPONGE" mode.

Not sure what your motivation is for getting solar but your usage looks pretty low. If lower electricity cost is a main reason then you may have a pretty long payback period. As for getting quotes, you should get lots of quotes (10+) directly if you can and weed out anyone who doesn't give you a detailed breakdown of their proposal and some references. Be careful of low ball offers with hidden gotchas (e.g. no firm start and completion date, vague equipment specs, etc.). I am happy with my Enphase system for many years now and one main reason I like it is not having to worry about losing all solar power if one inverter fails and wait for very long repair/replacement time that is unfortunately fairly common.

 

[zzyzx]

Not sure what your motivation is for getting solar but your usage looks pretty low. If lower electricity cost is a main reason then you may have a pretty long payback period. As for getting quotes, you should get lots of quotes (10+) directly if you can and weed out anyone who doesn't give you a detailed breakdown of their proposal and some references. Be careful of low ball offers with hidden gotchas (e.g. no firm start and completion date, vague equipment specs, etc.). I am happy with my Enphase system for many years now and one main reason I like it is not having to worry about losing all solar power if one inverter fails and wait for very long repair/replacement time that is unfortunately fairly common.

Welcome to the forum!

You sir, hit the nail squarely with your first sentence. I wondered who would be the first. Of course the rest of your comments were spot on as well. So, what the heck am I doing?

***** Begin Rant *****
Simply, when completed (with battery storage), I will have available power should the grid go down. THAT'S IT. I don't care about cost; it is not an investment, nor is it to save money. Think about all the insurance policies one buys: life, auto, home, flood, earthquake, health, umbrella, long-term care/disability, legal protection, emergency medical transport, etc, etc. These insurance policies are useful when the need arises and not before. And the premiums continue for as long as the policy is in effect.

What we are talking about here is another form of insurance, but with a difference. This insurance can be used before, during and after an emergency or disaster (natural or unnatural). My biggest fear is the grid going down long term. And the premiums? Buy once, cry once.
***** End Rant *****

 

[GXMnow]

To design an effective backup power system, with or without solar, you do need to have an idea what your power demands will be. If cost is truly no object, then go overkill, but for most of us, a budget does matter.

When the grid is up, I use about 25 KWH a day when it is cool out, and more like 50 KWH a day when my air conditioning is running. The loads I have connected to my backup panel require about 18 KWH if I just leave it all running, but some of it will get shut off if the grid is down.

Once you have an idea how much power you want with the grid down, you can work back to plan out how much battery and solar is needed to keep that running. Since your main concern is running in a blackout, I would go with a DC coupled battery charging setup and an inverter that can run load shaving while the grid is up. Load shaving will not push power out to the grid, It only limits how much you take from the grid. It can also work to reduce load on a generator so a small generator can keep you running with the battery just helping when you need to run a large load. There are several good inverters that can do this. My goal is to also reduce monthly cost to help pay for my backup power system, so I do sell back to the grid when my solar makes more than I need in a day. Some battery based inverters can do that with DC coupled solar, other systems could use a mix of DC and AC solar. AC coupled only can be made to work, and I am doing that now, but my Schneider inverter really wants some DC solar for battery charging to work the best. And if you really want to be sure to have power without the grid, DC coupled has several advantages. The biggest one being that even if you do run the battery bank to shut down, the solar will always be able to charge the battery back up and get you running again. With just AC coupled solar like I have now, if the battery inverter shuts off from low battery, I am stuck. Without the inverter running, the solar inverters can't start. Why use AC coupling then? Well, in most places, the grid is up 99% of the time. AC micro inverters are very efficient at taking solar and powering your appliances when the sun is shining. And each panel is on it's own. I have 16, so even if 3 inverters fail, or some panels get smashed from a falling tree, the remaining panels and inverters still work. String inverters, and DC coupled are usually an all or nothing system. Going with 2 or more charge controllers, and parallel strings can help improve system backup if something fails, but unless you use a charge controller on every panel, it won't be as robust as the microinverters.

So how disaster proof do you need? How much power do you need?

The battery bank is still one of the biggest costs, so figuring out your power needs when the sun is not hitting solar panels is where you need to start on a backup (or off grid) system.

 

[zzyzx]

So how disaster proof do you need? How much power do you need?

Great question . . . and one I have been mulling for a long time . . . and my answer at this time is . . . I don't know!

I'm trying to decide on a basic system design and then scale it. Use the grid when available, but be prepared for widespread, long-term blackout. We have seen in recent years local outages for many weeks in NoCal due to fires. And more recently, widespread, longer-term outages in Texas. In these examples, it was possible to temporarily leave the affected areas and go to non-affected areas. What if there was nowhere to go?

The North American power grid consists of two major interconnections (Eastern & Western) and 3 other regions, the Alaska interconnection, the Quebec interconnection and (of course), the Texas interconnection! In my mind, our nation's power grid just isn't prepared for widespread and long-term disruption or ultimate failure. The good news is if none of this happens, I will still be prepared when sporadic outages occur.

Your posts are very informative and highly useful to me as I meander in hopefully the right direction. THANK YOU.

 

[Bluedog225]

I hope this is not too old for a bump. GXMnow, I was interested in the black start capability of your ac system.

Do I understand correctly that the IQ7s will not generate at all when there is no ac min-grid visible to them? I suppose the 8’s would behave the same way. And your thought was to add some DC charge capacity, maybe just for emergency deployment, to bring your battery back to life and allow the micro inverters to do their thing?

The other thought I had was would you ever run your battery that low absent some sort of low voltage protection failure?

 

[GXMnow]

You are correct about the iQ7 inverters. If there is not grid power, they will not produce any power. The iQ8 can produce it's own grid, but you need to use the Enphase EmPower transfer switch. That will monitor the grid, disconnect when there is a problem, and signal the iQ8's to start producing power. The EnCharge battery units are equipped with iQ8 inverters and can produce the local "grid".

I do not have the EmPower switch, or any iQ8's. I have my Schneider inverter set to shut down when the battery voltage falls to 46 volts. That is still 3.286 volts per cell, so they still have a fair bit of energy left. The problem is that my network will all go down when the inverter shuts off. I will need to take a laptop computer out to my garage and get into the settings menu to lower the shut down voltage to turn the inverter back on. I can safely run my battery bank down to 3.0 volts per cell, with 14 in series, that would be 42 volts. So when the sun starts shining, I fire the inverter back up, the Schneider will produce the local "grid" and then the iQ7's will be able to sync up and also produce power. As long as I am using less power than the solar is making, it will charge the battery bank back up.

If I am home when the power goes out, I will do my best to reduce consumption so that the inverter will stay running until the sun comes up, and it should stay working without going into a dark shut down. I can easily limit what is running while on battery. I can even shut down the refrigerator if needed for a couple hours to make it until sunrise. Obviously, having the DC panels directly charge the batteries is a better situation, and solves several problems in one big expensive step. I did purchase another 18 KWHs of Chevy Bolt cells, and I am about 1/3 done in assembling a second bank to double my battery capacity. Once that is online, I can easily run my backup loads for 24 hours. The problem with that is I really don't have enough solar to charge that much just from my excess solar production in a day. But once they do fully charge, as long as I only use 10 KWH's of battery a day, I can put that back each day of sun, and I can use 25 KWHs during a blackout, without worrying about running out of battery power.

The next step is adding another 2 to 3 KW of DC connected solar panels. Then I will have no problem getting the larger battery banks charged up, and I will have dark start without having to do anything manually. I have mapped it out and even priced out the parts. I can fit nine 60 cell panels on my garage roof nd still have plenty of room for the required walkway around them. If I go with new modern panels, they are about 330 watts now, so that would be 2,970 watts of peak output. In this crazy hot weather, I am getting 26 KWHs out of my 4,800 watt array (18 x 300 watt panels). Going by the same "sun hours" I should be able to get another 16 KWHs from the new DC panel array. I will run on the AC array while the sun shines, and run off the stored 16 KWHs from the battery all night. It really is the best of both worlds. The Enphase is far more efficient at making AC during the day, and the DC charge controller is far more efficient at charging the battery bank for use at night.