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Enphase-I give up

Bluedog225

Texas
Joined
Nov 18, 2019
Messages
2,830
I’ve been looking into Enphase micro inverters for a while now. I’ve contacted Enphase, enrolled in the Enphase training, and corresponded to Midnite about how to design a system.

And thanks to everyone who helped with my newbie questions.

As indicated in other threads, I think micros are an elegant, and somewhat safer solution for my off grid install. Though I see that I can get to a similar level of safety with a string inverter and panel mounted rapid shutdown and arc fault detection.

What I ran into today is discouraging. Apparently, your warranty is conditioned on being continuously connected to the internet.

That’s dumb. And I’m out.


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And I’m out.

Good.

I suggest getting something that doesn't ever require firmware update. All hardware works together out of the box, and is already stable enough no bug fixes are required.

It is also annoying that they disavow warranty if not purchased through authorized channels. A new in the box product ought to be covered by warranty even if inventory passed through the hands of a liquidator.

But yeah, continuous data connectivity ought not be required. I could see their requiring to receive failed unit (or data from memory card for my equipment) to review operating conditions. My inverters record internally the highest PV voltage ever seen.
 
This issue with manufacturers not honoring the warranty except upon very narrowly specified conditions is nothing new. They ALL do it and it should be illegal. This issue cuts across many industries, heating and AC equipment purchased on the Internet comes to mind. As a DIY'er you have to accept this as the norm and consider the money you saved as a trade off for assuming responsibility of future repairs. Realistically, considering the hassle involved with warranty claims in general, you will most likely be happy to choose to purchase the parts and perform the repairs yourself.
 
My enphase system is about 10 years old and I don't know if my warranty required the Internet connection. I do not keep it connected to the internet, and my reaction to this requirement is they can go pound sand. The enphase exclusions are mild compared to simpli phi's.
 
Laws really need to be put in place to stop this crap! Having an Internet connection at a location is not a guaranteed thing and that is especially true for people with Solar that may be living out in the sticks. Also why are people being forced into paying for an Internet connection so that companies can provide them with a warranty.
 
Lots of companies want to sell a service, not a product. More money I guess. It gets them all up in your business.
 
Thanks for the interesting thread. I've been trying to gain an understanding of this as well.

If one were to install, in spite of the loss of warranty, a system:
- non-internet, non-cellular connected
- AC-coupled and grid-tied but configured for grid-down operation (with an appropriate inverter)
- IQ8 or iQ7 generation micro-inverters
- with the appropriate Enphase monitoring and control components

Is it even possible? What level of local system monitoring and control would be possible?
 
Thanks for the interesting thread. I've been trying to gain an understanding of this as well.

If one were to install, in spite of the loss of warranty, a system:
- non-internet, non-cellular connected
- AC-coupled and grid-tied but configured for grid-down operation (with an appropriate inverter)
- IQ8 or iQ7 generation micro-inverters
- with the appropriate Enphase monitoring and control components

Is it even possible? What level of local system monitoring and control would be possible?

As far as I know the monitoring won't work without the Internet but from what I have read you can use the API's and make your own Interface. The best person to ask is user @svetz .
 
Thanks for the interesting thread. I've been trying to gain an understanding of this as well.

If one were to install, in spite of the loss of warranty, a system:
- non-internet, non-cellular connected
- AC-coupled and grid-tied but configured for grid-down operation (with an appropriate inverter)
- IQ8 or iQ7 generation micro-inverters
- with the appropriate Enphase monitoring and control components

Is it even possible? What level of local system monitoring and control would be possible?
I've got an Enphase system and it's been my understanding that it can be done but if you don't have internet I think you have to connect to the comm port in the Envoy for monitoring. You don't need internet for the system to operate, you only need it to monitor the output. I can also go to my Entergy account and watch them recording my excess on my utility customer account through the smart-grid but again...internet. Even when my internet is down the system continues to operate and I can physically see the excess on my 2 way meter. You could install your own in-n-out meters to make you feel better but they don't care. I think what their warranty really comes down to is they will only warranty their micro inverters if they are run through the Envoy and use their app. I don't even know where to get the comm device to interface the Envoy.
 

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If one were to install, in spite of the loss of warranty, a [grid-tied system without internet]... What level of local system monitoring and control would be possible?
Previously you could access most everything. A recent Envoy patch however upped the security where you need a token to authenticate. You can still do local monitoring with a token, but it has to be retrieved from a remote server so internet access is required.

A lot of Home-Assistant folks are outraged over that as it broke their HA setups, but it's actually pretty easy to switch to the new authentication. So, yes you can do local API monitoring, but the computer doing the monitoring needs internet access to get the token and currently the token is good for about 5 hours, although documentation suggests there's a way to get a 6-month token.

The real problem is in order to get local access you need the internet to get a token. So, when the internet is down (e.g., during disaster) you may not be able to get it. They've said they're working on it and have a beta that works in AP mode for critical information. I'm still hoping for something better. The whole thing is a debacle, they could have left no authentication for 192.168 addresses as they aren't routable and upped the security on remote access. They could have done so much better. But, I also understand the desire to not be attacked by foreign countries during a conflict.

I’ve been looking into Enphase micro inverters for a while now. ...Apparently, your warranty is conditioned on being continuously connected to the internet. That’s dumb. And I’m out.
You might want to look at other Microinverters such as AP systems or Sol-Arc's new microinverter lineup. I know Sol-Arc is offering a 25-year warranty and as they're based in Texas might have a more privacy-minded attitude.

Overall I'm okay with them having internet access, but like you believe it should be optional and not tied to the warranty. For the average home-owner that doesn't have a clue about their system, it's probably a good thing as Enphase does provide a free service in terms of keeping the system updated, running properly, and problem notification.
 
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Previously you could access most everything. A recent Envoy patch however upped the security where you need a token to authenticate. You can still do local monitoring with a token, but it has to be retrieved from a remote server so internet access is required.

A lot of Home-Assistant folks are outraged over that as it broke their HA setups, but it's actually pretty easy to switch to the new authentication. So, yes you can do local AAPI monitoring, but the computer doing the monitoring needs internet access to get the token and currently the token is good for about 5 hours, although documentation suggests there's a way to get a 6-month token.

The real problem is in order to get local access you need the internet to get a token. So, when the internet is down (e.g., during disaster) you may not be able to get it. They've said they're working on it and have a beta that works in AP mode for critical information. I'm still hoping for something better. The whole thing is a debacle, they could have left no authentication for 192.168 addresses as they aren't routable and upped the security on remote access. They could have done so much better. But, I also understand the desire to not be attacked by foreign countries during a conflict.


You might want to look at other Microinverters such as AP systems or Sol-Arc's new microinverter lineup. I know Sol-Arc is offering a 25-year warranty and as they're based in Texas might have a more privacy-minded attitude.

Overall I'm okay with them having internet access, but like you believe it should be optional and not tied to the warranty. For the average home-owner that doesn't have a clue about their system, it's probably a good thing as Enphase does provide a free service in terms of keeping the system updated, running properly, and problem notification.
It's always about the internet. lol
 
I looked at Sol-Ark’s website. Lots of flash. No products.
They just announced it a couple of weeks ago, but they did say they had deployed some beta systems and it had been in development a long time. Possibly they're looking for beta customers yet. Might be worth a call. The downside of a new system is the rash of beginner bugs, the upside to participating in a beta is they'll listen to your feedback and hopefully implement it.
 
I have been very happy with Enphase. My system will be 3 years old soon, and no component has failed yet. During one power outage, the first one since my hybrid went in, 11 of my 16 iQ7 microinverters locked up and would not charge my battery bank. I am NOT using Enphase batteries. I have it connected to a Schneider XW-Pro. They could have just said, "Not our problem" and hung up on me, but they didn't. OF course, due to the rather wide spread power outage, my internet service also failed. The Enphase tech support talked me through getting the Envoy to connect through my cell phone WiFi. Then they connected remotely, saw the locked up inverters, and they were able to reset them and get them back up and running. And about 2 weeks later, they uploaded a firmware update that should keep them from locking up like that again.
 
This issue with manufacturers not honoring the warranty except upon very narrowly specified conditions is nothing new. They ALL do it and it should be illegal. This issue cuts across many industries, heating and AC equipment purchased on the Internet comes to mind. As a DIY'er you have to accept this as the norm and consider the money you saved as a trade off for assuming responsibility of future repairs. Realistically, considering the hassle involved with warranty claims in general, you will most likely be happy to choose to purchase the parts and perform the repairs yourself.
This 100%.
I care about warranties exactly as much as I care about having 99% of 'professionals' work on anything. They're all on drugs.
 
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