diy solar

diy solar

Enphase w/ Victron

Checking in on this project. How is it going?

I was reading in the enphase literature that frequency shift should not be used alone to limit power from the microinverters. And that an overvoltage switch to a load (water heater or similar) should be used. Curious if you did this and how is it working?
 
I'm about a month away from having the full array up on the roof. That said, I have setup a small test system with three panels and have had great success with that so far using just the frequency-shifting. I was planning to setup one of the quattro's relays to control an AC dump load and to trigger that on battery SoC when I have the larger system fully wired up.

(Can you point me to the enphase documentation that you're referring to?)
 
Great. Please keep us posted. I’m looking at doing something similar (ok, exactly the same).

I’ll see if I can find the article. I think it was in one of the “documentation” pieces. There was not much detail. A statement like-do not use voltage control as the exclusive means to prevent overcharging. I can’t put my hands on it right at the moment.
 
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Bluedog225 said:
Here it is. Bottom of page 1.

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Ah. I do remember reading this! (thanks for the link, btw.)

I don't think it's going to be much of a factor, because my system isn't ever grid-tied, and my inverter is grid-forming -- basically, you can't rely on an inverter to reliably use frequency shifting if it can't completely control the grid (because it's connected to another upstream grid).
 
Got it (I think). In your setup, if your frequency shifting fails, for whatever reason, and you don’t have a “dump” load, what would your inverter do? That is, would there be a problem or just an open circuit with alternating current on it?

I ask because one of my concerns is finding a 100% reliable dump load. All things fail (water heater, forced air heater, water pump, etc) and I was wondering if a failure creates a fire hazard.

And thanks again for posting the info regarding your setup.
 
tanoshimini said:
I'm about a month away from having the full array up on the roof. That said, I have setup a small test system with three panels and have had great success with that so far using just the frequency-shifting. I was planning to setup one of the quattro's relays to control an AC dump load and to trigger that on battery SoC when I have the larger system fully wired up.

(Can you point me to the enphase documentation that you're referring to?)
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing your testing.

Were you able to get the full iQ7 array to work with Victron? How big is the full array?

I am considering similar setup.
 
I have a similar setup but smaller running now (inspired by what @tanoshimini posted) for about a month and so far it's working great. I have 2 Victron Multiplus 24/3000 (split phase configured) AC coupled to 6 435W panels with IQ7As. I'm also DC coupled to 8 300W panels and 4 435W panels through 2 Victron SmartSolar 250/60 controllers. I'm running the PV Inverter Support Assistant on my Multiplus inverters and have Grid Profile on IQ7As set to Off-Grid FW200. That should ramp down IQ7A production to 0 when Multiplus increases frequency to 60.5 or higher.

Since I also have DC coupled panels, I don't usually need much power from IQ7As once the battery is full. I think you may want to set the Grid Profile differently if you only have AC coupled panels so the microinverters are being ramped up and down more gradually with frequency changes.
 
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jwu_cc said:
I have a similar setup but smaller running now (inspired by what @tanoshimini posted) for about a month and so far it's working great. I have 2 Victron Multiplus 24/3000 (split phase configured) AC coupled to 6 435W panels with IQ7As. I'm also DC coupled to 8 300W panels and 4 435W panels through 2 Victron SmartSolar 250/60 controllers. I'm running the PV Inverter Support Assistant on my Multiplus inverters and have Grid Profile set to Off-Grid FW200. That should ramp down IQ7A production to 0 when Multiplus increases frequency to 60.5 or higher.

Since I also have DC coupled panels, I don't usually need much power from IQ7As once the battery is full. I think you may want to set the Grid Profile differently if you only have AC coupled panels so the microinverters are being ramped up and down more gradually with frequency changes.
Click to expand...

Thanks for info.

I would only have AC coupled MI's.
Can you explain more about the process to set the grid profile? Who (Victron or Enphase) provided the "Off-Grid FW200" profile?

Do you use lithium batteries? My understanding is that the PV inverter assistant works off battery voltage so I am wondering how well that really works with lithium batteries where the battery voltage is very flat across most of the SOC range.
 
solar8484 said:
Thanks for info.

I would only have AC coupled MI's.
Can you explain more about the process to set the grid profile? Who (Victron or Enphase) provided the "Off-Grid FW200" profile?

Do you use lithium batteries? My understanding is that the PV inverter assistant works off battery voltage so I am wondering how well that really works with lithium batteries where the battery voltage is very flat across most of the SOC range.
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Yes, I just realized that I did not specified where the Grid Profile was set at. It's set on the microinverters and you do need to have Enphase Envoy to configure that.

I have LiFePO4 and you are correct that the assistant will only kick in when the voltage is close to the top range of the battery pack voltage. Based on the documentation (https://www.victronenergy.com/live/assistants:pv-inverter-support) it starts to bump up the frequency at 27V (for 24V system), which works fine for me as I do set the absorption voltage at 28.2V and float at 27.4V. I set the max frequency at 61Hz in the assistant, and generally it'll rise to 60.5 Hz when the battery voltage hit 28V and basically turn off the microinverters. I think using ESS profiles with Multiplus may give you finer controls, but I can't quite get my head around that yet. Hopefully somebody else with more experience with ESS would be able to pitch in on that.
 
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Hey solar enthusiasts. I too am exploring victron inverter as a grid tried battery backup (AC coupled) for my existing enphase IQ7 microinverter based solar array. I have a 4.4kw peak system and want to have 220v backup. Is there any advantage to Pairing two of the victron multi inverters (which are half price) to make splitphase, vs one quattro with an autoteansformer? Also, wouldn't two 2000w multi invters do the job? Multi vs quattro? What's the advantage in my application? Thanks in advance for your feedback!!!
 
Multi vs Quattro - The biggest drawback with 2 Multis IMHO is you would need to balance the load on two phases yourself, while with autotransformer it does that for you as long as the imbalance current is within the spec. Otherwise, I think either way should work fine.
Note that Victron has the Factor 1.0 rule for AC coupling - https://www.victronenergy.com/live/ac_coupling:start#the_factor_10_rule. If your 4.4KWp is the Enphase inverter rating, then 2 2000VA Multis won't be sufficient. You would need a 5KVA Quattro or 2 3KVA Multis.
 
It seems like the multilplus is heavily recommended for AC coupling by several companies. Battle born batteries is one of those. For my application, AC coupled 4.4kwp system with full battery backup, I am having a hard time seeing the advantage of the quattro. The 5000w version of either would seem to be able to perform equally.
 
solar8484 said:
Thanks for info.

I would only have AC coupled MI's.
Click to expand...
It is advisable to have at least some DC-coupled charging.
Otherwise, you can fall into a deadlock position with a flat battery when off-grid.
The Victron has shut down due to a flat battery and the micro-inverters need AC to start to charge the battery.
With at least some DC charging from an MPPT the battery can charge, the inverter can switch back on, and in turn the MI's turn back on.

There are also some rules for Victron AC-coupling ( See 1:1 rule and recommended battery size on the Victron site).

Incidentally, I don't know about the latest Enphase offering, but the older versions at least did not offer a gradual power curve in response to frequency ramping. It was either on or off and nothing in between as far as I know.
 
I noticed the US version if quattro is 120v even on the AC input side. That would mean that for my application, grid tie w/battery backup, the quattro inverter would be installed between the meter and the autotransformer feeding the main panel. So, with 120v, only one leg from the meter would feed the quattro inverter. Am I correct? Essentially making 200amp service, 100 amp?
 
Phil.g00 said:
It is advisable to have at least some DC-coupled charging.
Otherwise, you can fall into a deadlock position with a flat battery when off-grid.
The Victron has shut down due to a flat battery and the micro-inverters need AC to start to charge the battery.
With at least some DC charging from an MPPT the battery can charge, the inverter can switch back on, and in turn the MI's turn back on.

There are also some rules for Victron AC-coupling ( See 1:1 rule and recommended battery size on the Victron site).

Incidentally, I don't know about the latest Enphase offering, but the older versions at least did not offer a gradual power curve in response to frequency ramping. It was either on or off and nothing in between as far as I know.
Click to expand...

I would consider that if I had the space. I plan to use a generator for the situation since it's necessary for extended cloudy/smoky days anyway.
 
How do 240v ac microinverters feed into the victron quattro? As far as I can tell, it's only accepting 120v AC. Anyone find the actual wiring diagram?
 
Rikipedia said:
It seems like the multilplus is heavily recommended for AC coupling by several companies. Battle born batteries is one of those.
Click to expand...
Did Battle Born explain why they recommend Multiplus over other inverters?

Anecdotally it seems other inverters (e.g. Sunny Island, Outback Radian) have more reports of AC coupling problems with Enphase iQ microinverters so I am curious to know what makes Multiplus different. I wonder if the iQ microinverters are doing something usual in their anti-islanding detection compared to other grid-tied inverters.
 
I'm going to join in here now. We have been gradually adding to our solar system over the last 23 years. Every few years, we have added a whole new segment. After 23 years, the central heart of our system, a Trace dual stacked SW4048 wired 120/240 split-phase began having problems and showing its age. We now have 2 electric cars to charge also - so it was time to upgrade our 'heart.' After much reading and research, we settled on (2) Vic Quattro's 5k, wired 120/240 split-phase.

Not everything is working yet, but it does seem that the tremendous flexibility of the Victrons means it is just a matter of figuring it out.

Our (30) Enphase M215 MicroInverters are mounted on 2-axis trackers built by Sedona Energy Labs that we put in our backyard by pouring deep concrete footings. Unfortunately, SEL went belly-up and so we are on our own. But so far, we have been able to make all repairs and modifications successfully. When we first put them in, we had (25) panels and inverters, and we made a time-lapse video:


Since we are grid-tied, our compatibility issues between Enphase and Quattro's may be different from your observations and setup. Are there any folks here using Victron inverter/chargers and Enphase microinverters who are grid-tied?
 
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