In short, I was talking with a local PV installer that indicated an entire ground mount structure for any array must be UL listed. We are in the engineering business and fully competent to design and construct a structural rated mount, but I fail to see why UL would need to be required? This was a pro installer so I am hoping he was just trying to sell more equipment because our county has no special provisions on the books and refers right back to NEC 2020 code. If I can show a clear ground path for everything, I fail to see reason in UL? Anyone else run into mount drama in their area? It frustrates me to see people getting to build stuff out of 2x4s and go make power, but I am not free to even think about solar.
Entire structure of small ground mount array needs to be UL listed? WTF?
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oldryder1973
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I have been investigating/designing a DIY grid tie system for several months. I am a retired elec engineer and have had multiple discussions with the EE at my utility and also with my favorite electrician re code requirements. The utility requires UL and CE listing for the devices but no mention of UL for the structure has ever come up and UL is not in the business of certifying structures anyway. Sounds like bullsh!t. I do need a construction permit for the arrays but that is mostly just a revenue generator for the local county. Note my location is rural so someone in a municipality might have other hurdles to deal with.
MichaelK
Solar Wizard
Sounds like a money extraction scheme to me. You'll need to pay a just bit extra to get the UL certification?
This reminds me of years ago when I went into my county's code office with my cabin blueprints that I was going to be constructing in the local mountains. Their reaction was "why are you bothering us with this?". A professional builder happened to be standing behind me and pulled me aside to explain that in my county as long it was not a commercial structure for rent or business, I could do whatever I wanted.
This reminds me of years ago when I went into my county's code office with my cabin blueprints that I was going to be constructing in the local mountains. Their reaction was "why are you bothering us with this?". A professional builder happened to be standing behind me and pulled me aside to explain that in my county as long it was not a commercial structure for rent or business, I could do whatever I wanted.
Great input guys! OldRyder you sound like someone I could really talk to here! I am in structural so it is really hard for me to waste good money on an "engineered structure" or even install since I have dozers, excavators, tractors, etc, just sitting onsite. Could I reach out via PM? I would be really curious what you have found.
Here is what we are looking at guys. I am now looking for a huge pile of old solar panels. Like real old if needed. The idea to build our large large array, even with expansion in mind. We know they use GIS imaging to scan for structures so we will give them a structure. It might only be 3kw on their books and being 1000ft from the road and over a hill, it will be nearly impossible to prove if panels were swapped which turns the system up to 25kw.
By doing the smaller rating, it just sounds like a more practical number. What I want to do is an inverter right near the panels, then some receptacles or something. What I am trying to figure out is an excuse load to run! Like "why all these panels in the middle of an ag field?" I thought about "lights for a greenhouse" lmo until I thought for another 3sec. Without the battery bank, no sun, no lights....lol
Technically I don't need to come up with any excuse, but I like to throw something vague but plausible. As well, when the office guys look at the app, 3kw sounds more reasonable than 25kw. I think there is also addition roll out beyond 15kw.
Here is what we are looking at guys. I am now looking for a huge pile of old solar panels. Like real old if needed. The idea to build our large large array, even with expansion in mind. We know they use GIS imaging to scan for structures so we will give them a structure. It might only be 3kw on their books and being 1000ft from the road and over a hill, it will be nearly impossible to prove if panels were swapped which turns the system up to 25kw.
By doing the smaller rating, it just sounds like a more practical number. What I want to do is an inverter right near the panels, then some receptacles or something. What I am trying to figure out is an excuse load to run! Like "why all these panels in the middle of an ag field?" I thought about "lights for a greenhouse" lmo until I thought for another 3sec. Without the battery bank, no sun, no lights....lol
Technically I don't need to come up with any excuse, but I like to throw something vague but plausible. As well, when the office guys look at the app, 3kw sounds more reasonable than 25kw. I think there is also addition roll out beyond 15kw.
SalckwareRobert
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biden wants electric car chargers put up everywhere......... Your just planning for the first electric ATV that chugs by needing a charge.
Or even better, tell them your a black farmer, and are prepping for the first electric harvester john deere makes. LOL
My power company could care less about solar, or anything else on my side of meter. One of the engineers did ask if I would call him when installed so he can verify it doesn't back load to their power lines, but I don't have to. He also ask if I was selling power, so I told him when I need to go to 1200V I am required to sell some.
$2k for 8kw of used panels is just to low to ignore. Had an AHA! moment how to do the 2 axis tracking and handle the wind loading. Helicopter swash plate to change angle of panels using lead screw puts load along the screw rod length, and rod in pipe to rotate panels around gives leverage against lateral forces.
virgomistrust
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I was looking for insight or links to aid me in the construction of a ground mount rack system for my upcoming solar project.
any advice is appreciated
any advice is appreciated
Sierra Nevada
New Member
If your wanting to pole mount, I fabricated these racks. The far one has 2 kw of panels and the other 2 have 1.5 is each. The poles are sch 80 steel pipe. They are able to turn or tilt, summer straight up and winter tilted down pointed south. George
virgomistrust
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looks great and thanks for the fast reaponse. Do these auto trace the sun or manual adjustment. Do you have the specs on the depth of the pole - size in diameter - depth - amount of concrete. If you have any snaps of the back I'd appreciate it, I plan on mounting 24 panels along a run of 55 feet on the north side of my house.
virgomistrust
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That's good to know sadly, we are not too close in shipping cost that it might not be feasible.
newbostonconst
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If you are a engineering firm can you get a PE to sign off on it?
I build a pergola and used the span charts as if joists were a roof over a garage. I didn't have a problem.
I build a pergola and used the span charts as if joists were a roof over a garage. I didn't have a problem.
Sierra Nevada
New Member
I am just a homeowner, they are manual not auto. Poles are about 11 ft with about 4 ft in the ground with about a yard of concrete. 
Sounds like a great place to live. In my county they are kind of reasonable but not like yours. Here we can build a fence up to 6ft tall unlimited length, have up to a 5,000 gallon water tank, build up to a 200 sqft shed, and build up to a 200sqft car port all without permits.
I've discussed my ground mount in this thread:
diysolarforum.com
I would have done poles like @Sierra Nevada , but we're on bedrock here and there is no way I can just dig/drill a hole in the ground.
DIY ground mount
Keeping in line with the whole low-cost solar system, building my own braided bus bars, etc. I thought I would see what it takes to build a low-cost ground mount for those 500W 96 cell panels (1310mm x 1956mm). My goals were to make the whole thing simple to build, with minimal tools and simple...
diysolarforum.com
I would have done poles like @Sierra Nevada , but we're on bedrock here and there is no way I can just dig/drill a hole in the ground.
Im also EE. My county seems anti-solar. Beach town so big on wind. They said 'all components must have stamp
What stamp? That is vague. I could see a larger rack system needing a PE stamp, which I can understand, and we can stamp, but UL for a mount system is just dumb. You could argue that your gas pipe in your house and that you "grounded" may need a UL listing.
I think governments are looking for ways to tax people on solar so they want as much on the books as possible.
virgomistrust
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I've recently discovered that a representative in my state floated a bill to tax ALL solar panels. The goal of this is obvious - revenue! There is however, an argument to be made that as solar proliferates the revenue of your local utility will drop while his opertational cost continue to rise. There will be a tipping point where this will become a problem. As with water that comes from the heavens and falls upon your roof in some states is NOT yours so shall be deemed the sun at some point.
schmism
Solar Addict
you'll want to check with the local building officals. In my case (as you noted) there is no requirement in NEC or IBC concerning ground mounts. however that didnt prevent the local dept from still demanding that the structure be sealed by an engineer. (but that has nothing to do with UL listing) SO I'm being forced to converter my DIY rack into a comercial rack product that I can get a seal on.
schmism
Solar Addict
There is nothing to say his operational cost continue to rise. What is likely to happen (like with my state IL and many others) is they instead split generation and transport in 2 line items. You will always have transport/grid fees regardless if you have generation/usage fees.I've recently discovered that a representative in my state floated a bill to tax ALL solar panels. The goal of this is obvious - revenue! There is however, an argument to be made that as solar proliferates the revenue of your local utility will drop while his opertational cost continue to rise.
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