EPever all in one

[Divad]

Has anyone had anything to do with the EPever all in ones?

Interested in peoples opinions.

Im looking at the 24v 3000w 150v 60a version. UP3000-M6322

All in one

 

[Frank in Thailand]

EPever is usually the better quality.
Unlike EASun, who have usually garbage.

I seen the specifications, and they look OK
Manual doesn't mention lithium battery...
That can be a bad thing if you want to use the MPPT for LiFePO4.

Sadly they use the same powerful dual 80mm fans to do all the cooling as most other brands.

While effective enough, they are LOUD!!
Especially if you use the MPPT.

That being said..
Can be a good buy.
It's not Outback or Victron.
Nor had it's pricetag...

You really should consider the noise level.
You can not be working in the same room as the hybrid when it's charging your batteries.
If it's in your garage...
Your all set!

 

[Divad]

Thanx for the reply, didnt think about the fan noise.

Ill keep looking, id really like to get a Victron Easysolar but as you mentioned the price is a bit prohibiting at the moment.

Ive got a property on the market and once that sells ill be set to buy components to build a good brand name system but untill that happens ill keep looking at the lower end of the market.

I will put together a smaller system for now and move it to my shed when funds become avaliable to buy the Victron.

Thanx again for your reply.

 

[Frank in Thailand]

I have 3 x Revo II (Sorotec)

Like most hybrids, they where LOUD.
Now silent

I placed 2* 140mm stacked at the top (going to change that to 2 side by side)And 3* 120mm down.
The 3* 120 are always spinning, and being fed by 3 LiFePO4 cells.

At 1 watt on +/- 10v that won't drain the battery cells to make it go imbalanced...

Those are case fans "phantek".
Intended to provide light airflow without noise

The 140 are also phantek, who I will replace one of the 2 with the silent wing 3.

The 140's are controlled by the hybrid.

Phantek use 0.22A at 12v
Be quiet Silent wings 3 only 0.08A!!

The silent wings 3 is better to push or pull in restrictive environment
(Like heatsinks or radiators)
For the techies : air pressure @140mm= 2.16 H20
and 3.27 for the 120mm
.
Price wise.. huge difference.
I paid 169 THB ( $6 )for the phantek and 720 THB ( $24) for the silent wings.

Both have liquid baring, Silent wings 3 is rated for 300.000 hours or about 35 years continuous useage.
If they where not that expensive o would use them for all...
Now each Revo II gets one 140 and one 120mm SW3
And one 140 + 2* 120 phantek




To keep it simple, I took out the 2 bottom fans, and made more room
(Not sure if that was really nesececery, probably just could've kept the original holes) and made a duct for the 120mm fans.





At the top I made opening to pull out the air.


For sure, it does need some cleaning and make it look more nice.

My original idea was to use Delta's.
(Aka server fans)
While one 120 mm can get more airflow at full speed then all 5 others combined.
Like the 80mm type...
Like yet engine taking off
Even at lower speeds.

I've done some "dB" readings withy phone
At one meter distance 56 "points" where clicking the side button for screenshot give 59 "points"

To give impression of the current noise level

I do need to replace already 2 of the 120 phantek. :-(

Not their fault!!

I feed it at first with ac-dc converter and didn't measure the output voltage...
It was +14v...
Au.. lesson learned.. always measure!!!

I played around with the speed/ voltage (so up over 14v) to see the performance gain or loose including dust filter..
Don't use the dust filter type you see on the lower left. Way to restrtive.

At full speed it worked quite nice..
That was 14v.. for weeks.
Even liquid baring can't handle that.

As they need to be replaced, the first 120 and first 140 are going to be SW3.
(I started to buy 2* 140 SW3 to compare them with the 140 phantek, as I have them, better use it )

Sure.. inverters aren't computers
And casing is different.
Still the same basics apply.

For more information Overclock . Net

To learn all about air pressure and how/why it's important.
Also what fans are best / good to use.

Air pressure is key in this situation
Loads of restrictions.
Sadly, most higher pressure fans are small and high rpm = lots of noise.
Golden middle is 120 SW3, with a solid 3.72.

Why use the 140 mm??
Looking back that is not needed.
Probably one 120 push and one 120 pull would do the trick.

I've built a lot of silent computers, and when you need to remove a lot of heat, you can create enough airflow in 2 ways:
High speed (loud)
More fans at low speed
Energy consumption stays about the same.
Initial costs are higher, you need to buy more.
Lifetime increase a lot, running at lower speeds.

If you can't have the budget for outback...
You need to hack

 

[Frank in Thailand]

I have 3 x Revo II (Sorotec)

Like most hybrids, they where LOUD.
Now silent

I placed 2* 140mm stacked at the top (going to change that to 2 side by side)And 3* 120mm down.
The 3* 120 are always spinning, and being fed by 3 LiFePO4 cells.

At 1 watt on +/- 10v that won't drain the battery cells to make it go imbalanced...

Those are case fans "phantek".
Intended to provide light airflow without noise

The 140 are also phantek, who I will replace one of the 2 with the silent wing 3.

The 140's are controlled by the hybrid.

Phantek use 0.22A at 12v
Be quiet Silent wings 3 only 0.08A!!

The silent wings 3 is better to push or pull in restrictive environment
(Like heatsinks or radiators)
For the techies : air pressure @140mm= 2.16 H20
and 3.27 for the 120mm
.
Price wise.. huge difference.
I paid 169 THB ( $6 )for the phantek and 720 THB ( $24) for the silent wings.

Both have liquid baring, Silent wings 3 is rated for 300.000 hours or about 35 years continuous useage.
If they where not that expensive o would use them for all...
Now each Revo II gets one 140 and one 120mm SW3
And one 140 + 2* 120 phantek


View attachment 27096

To keep it simple, I took out the 2 bottom fans, and made more room
(Not sure if that was really nesececery, probably just could've kept the original holes) and made a duct for the 120mm fans.
View attachment 27098

View attachment 27100

View attachment 27102
At the top I made opening to pull out the air.
View attachment 27103

For sure, it does need some cleaning and make it look more nice.

My original idea was to use Delta's.
(Aka server fans)
While one 120 mm can get more airflow at full speed then all 5 others combined.
Like the 80mm type...
Like yet engine taking off
Even at lower speeds.

I've done some "dB" readings withy phone View attachment 27097
At one meter distance 56 "points" where clicking the side button for screenshot give 59 "points"

To give impression of the current noise level

I do need to replace already 2 of the 120 phantek. :-(

Not their fault!!

I feed it at first with ac-dc converter and didn't measure the output voltage...
It was +14v...
Au.. lesson learned.. always measure!!!

I played around with the speed/ voltage (so up over 14v) to see the performance gain or loose including dust filter..
Don't use the dust filter type you see on the lower left. Way to restrtive.

At full speed it worked quite nice..
That was 14v.. for weeks.
Even liquid baring can't handle that.

As they need to be replaced, the first 120 and first 140 are going to be SW3.
(I started to buy 2* 140 SW3 to compare them with the 140 phantek, as I have them, better use it )

Sure.. inverters aren't computers
And casing is different.
Still the same basics apply.

For more information Overclock . Net

To learn all about air pressure and how/why it's important.
Also what fans are best / good to use.

Air pressure is key in this situation
Loads of restrictions.
Sadly, most higher pressure fans are small and high rpm = lots of noise.
Golden middle is 120 SW3, with a solid 3.72.

Why use the 140 mm??
Looking back that is not needed.
Probably one 120 push and one 120 pull would do the trick.

I've built a lot of silent computers, and when you need to remove a lot of heat, you can create enough airflow in 2 ways:
High speed (loud)
More fans at low speed
Energy consumption stays about the same.
Initial costs are higher, you need to buy more.
Lifetime increase a lot, running at lower speeds.

If you can't have the budget for outback...
You need to hack

Some pictures of further setup:

I now have 2* 120 in push, and 2 x 140 in pull.

Both one phantek and one be quiet Silent wings 3.
Last one have about 35 years lifespan.. with matching pricetag of $25'- per fan.

Looking back, one X 120 push and one X pull probably would be enough, but less silent.








I think it looks nice clean.
I used 4mm thick dampening foam sheets and hotglue.

The top 2 are still controlled by the Revo II, the bottom 2 are always on, about 60-75% speed.
5 or 6 watts extra power consumption per inverter for my peace of mind that cooling will be sufficient is a small price.

$6 for the phantek is cheap and with 100.000h MTBF, not bad.
It does not give a lot of air pressure.
The silent wings 3 does.
@ 4 times the price...

I think it looks great

 

[Lorenzo90]

Hi, as far EPEVER I emailed them regarding the lithium compatibility..
This was their answer.. sadly
Hi Lorenzo,
Thank you for reaching EPEVER.

The resellers are right, unfortuately UP-M model does not support Lithium battery.

EPEVER doesn't have the proper product for your application now.
Kind regards,

Chandler Zhu
EPEVER Support.

More specifically

Hi Lorenzo,

A Lithium compatible charger should have 'lithium activation' feature. When the Lithium battery has very low SOC and shut shown, the charger should be responsible to activate the the battery again to charge it.
Kind regards,
Chandler Zhu
EPEVER Support.

Does that make sense to anyone? Any way to go around it? I have a dc-dc charger in my van as well..
What's your opinion?

 

[Frank in Thailand]

Lol

That is a really complicated way of describing recharge a lithium battery....

No.
A lithium compatible hybrid (inverter and MPPT) "needs" to have a lithium charging profile.

At 95% (90%?) of SOC it needs to go from constant current to constant voltage.

A lithium battery charger does the first 90% in 1/2 of the charging time, the last few % takes just as long.

This is needed to be able to slowly top charge the battery.
If one cell reach 3.60 / 3.65 then the BMS can burn off the additional energy and allow the other cells to reach the same voltage without overcharge the cell that reached "full" first.

If it would continue constant current, no way the BMS can burn off (dump load) that kind of current.

Lucky, LiFePO4 is highly compatible with lead acid settings.

You just don't use equalisation phase but set all to the same.

Down side...
Not 100% charged.
Upside.....
That will give you roughly 500-1000 cycles extra to not top charge the cells each time.

Other downside...
LiFePO4 does go out of balance.
It doesn't balance on its own like lead acid.

This leaves you with 2 alternative.

One: every few months manual top charge, it's good to have a 50 watt resistor available to discharge the cells that go to high too fast.
Your BMS should stop at 3.65, so you can discharge the cells that are too high, and let the charge begin again after you made then as close as possible with the 50watt resistor.

If you don't like this...
Active balancer or active balancer BMS
Depending on the size of the battery array, 1 or 2A.

It does constant Balance between the cells and prevent the cells to go out of balance.

Don't expect to work fast.
280Ah cell, 280 ampere hours.
If one is 260 and an other 263, it will take 3 hours to get those 2 in balance for this small difference.

With 48v system, 15 cells...

Good thing that imbalance also takes days or weeks to occur.
It's strong enough to keep a balanced battery in balance.

Or slowly (weeks) make imbalance battery in balance.

I personally have only the active balancer, 2 different battery sets.
One time 2*280Ah in S16 and one 3*152Ah in S16.

First one have 1A active balancer.
Second set had some accidents...
And I use 2A unit to keep it nicely balanced.

This works for me, even that my Revo II hybrid MPPT inverter does have lithium settings.

I just don't charge it over 90%

 

[Lorenzo90]

Sorry, is that a reply to my message? If so it's definitely above my knowledge...
Was it to reply to my message? If so I'll try read it again and make sense of it :/

 

[Frank in Thailand]

Sorry, is that a reply to my message? If so it's definitely above my knowledge...
Was it to reply to my message? If so I'll try read it again and make sense of it :/

Yes it is.

You asked if it have lithium battery option, the EPever factory replied that it doesn't have.

And some BS answer writing in a complex way that an empty lithium battery needs to get charged.

Too far empty should never happen.
That is why people use BMS.
(Battery management system) to prevent under and over charge on cell level.

Where a lead acid battery consists of 6 X 2.1 volt cells (that is why you have 6 openings to fill water if needed) that does balance eachother, LiFePO4 have 3.2v cells.

For lead acid you can buy normally one, 3 and 6 cell, one is used in marine, 3 cells are 6v and 6 cells 12v (or actually 12.7v)

LiFePO4 people make with 4 cell modules a 12v battery, 8 for 24v and 15 or 16 for 48 volt.
16 cells give 51.2v, a little more.
But.. as the 48v systems are build for lead acid, 12.7*4= 50.8, 16 cells will work just fine.

It may not have special lithium settings, it always have custom lead acid settings.
They can be used for lithium.

So, yes, it's perfectly fine to use this unit with lithium battery.

It will charge and discharge as you want and need.

It can not provide top charge. (Aka full)
Where lead acid is most happy being fully charged all the time, and doesn't like to go below 60%, lithium doesn't like to be fully charged.
90% makes it a lot more happy.
And it can be used down to 10%, without becoming unhappy.
That provides you with 80% capacity where lead acid did 40%

Also lead acid is 85% efficient, you get from the 1000 watt you put in, maximal 850 back.

Lithium is 95% efficient, from the 1000 watt you can use 950w.

The DC voltage that is used for the first 90% of charge is exactly the same as it would be for lead acid.

Only the last 10% needs different approach.

And as lithium is more happy (read more cycles) at 90%, that isn't a bad thing.

Only balancing...
Depending on your usage, 24/7 of a few months a year, you need to do this a few times per year or once a year.

For that... There are good explanation videos on YouTube, also by Will Prowse

 

[Lorenzo90]

Ok now I read everything again, it definitely make sense.
I'll have a 70a dc-dc charger from my inverter.. I guess that will do as far full charge every time I drive far enough.
If I go to 100% will that solve the problem of balancing?
I'm planning on getting a Dali 8s 24v 250a bms.
The battery made of a 8x3.2v 280ah cells.

How loud really is this unit?
Do you have some comparison?
I want to put in in my camper, (where I wil sleep a lot during the day, since I work nights moving all over the country).

Would you advice against that?

 

[Frank in Thailand]

Going to 100% would only solve the problem of balancing if the BMS can burn off enough excess charge to rebalance the cells.

Daly is getting a bad reputation with the units above 100A.

I have heard and experience many failures with the "higher end" units.

Below 100A "set and forget".
Above 100A, no Daly!!

The active balancer BMS is good (I posed link above) and Chargery.

If you are going to have more then 8 cells, why not move to 48v?
It will save you a lot in lower ampere breaker and thinner cable.
Besides, 48v is more efficient.
(Smaller step from 48 to 120/240)

If you have it in your camper, I for sure will advise against a hybrid especially as you want to sleep during the day (is MPPT operating time)
The passively cooled MPPT would be a good solution.

Alternatively you do some old school hacking like I did.
They are in my bedroom, in a closet who have enough ventilation aka fresh cool air and remove the hot air outside.

250A BMS..
And I read about 3000W inverter.
That's double the Amperage for the inverter, unneeded large.

At 48v (S16, 51.2v) 60A would be good enough.

Daly have good split port to provide protection for external charger (MPPT, DC/DC) and discharge (inverter)

Depending on your power consumption any inverter will be loud (at 75%) and "silent" at 25% load.

If you hack and use 120mm 12v silent fans with enough pressure (like the silent wings 3) they can be silent till 50-60% load.

MPPT and PWM will produce heat.
Depending on the number of panels and their wattages, that will be a lot or less.

And it needs to be cooled...

 

[Lorenzo90]

I only have 8 cells, so I will stick with 24v, plus I can still use a lot of stuff without stepping down voltage (loads of lights, fans, chargers etc are 12/24v)
The inverter is 3000w with max of 6000 for starter motors and similia..
I like the idea of simplify my set up with am all in one unit..

 

[Frank in Thailand]

Yes, I totally understand.

While having MPPT and inverter separate isn't that much more complex, hybrid is more efficient from the MPPT to the 120/240v

2 separate is little less efficient.
But the noise...

I have 3200 watt unit, spike 4500w.
The MPPT is the part that requires the most cooling, and those 80mm fans are LOUD.

If you sleep on the side of crowded highway (not traffic jam) the noise level probably would feel acceptable.

If you have more quiet place...
You probably will turn off the solar panels to be able to sleep.

Without MPPT and 1/3 load, the units are good.

If you are not inside the RV during charge, not much an issue.
If you need to sleep there during the day....

You can try to sleep with hair dryer turned on, middel speed, or at high wattage solar panels even high speed...

About that noise level

 

[Lorenzo90]

Mmm ok, is it a pleasant white noise at least? ?
As far as solar I will be able to have either 600w or 1000W of I can manage to exploit all the roof space.. so ~40a max of solar input (which I will never reach in UK)

 

[Frank in Thailand]

"Old type" solar (beginning this year was 300-350 watt.
"New type solar" does 400-450 for the same space and "old price".

2 or 3 panels, 800 -1200 watt rating, real 800 for 1200 panels in the UK, on those 3 days it ain't raining @24v, 35A

That's not so much.

I do (+/-) 4500 watt on my 3200 inverters
(43 X 340watt)
Then... Jeah..
Like having a hair dryer on fill speed on the side of your bed.

Due to health issues I need to rest regular.
Huge reason for me to make them silent.

And it ain't that difficult.
You probably don't have to cut like I did, just make a duct from the 120mm to the 80mm hole.

And connect the fan on the same controller as the 80mm fan was.

That is quick and dirty silencing trick.

To make it look better (I think) and more optimal, you hack like me.

But 800 watts for probably +3000 watt MPPT, won't heat it up that much.

 

[Frank in Thailand]

Just one last word of advice.
Many people use maximal 1500-2000 watt and decide to buy 3500 watt inverter.
Their normal usage is 500 watt.

What they probably forgot is the own power consumption of the inverter.
2 to 5%.

So if you have 3500 watt inverter, it always use 70-175 watt, depending on brand and model.
For easy calculation I place it at 100 watt.

If your power consumption is 3000 watt,the battery is drained 3000+100=3100 watt.

If your power consumption is 250 watt your battery is drained 250+100=350 watt.

Even at 50 watt, your battery is drained 50+ 100= 150w.
Always. 24/7...
2 to 5 % of rated capacity (!!!)
Sure, bigger is better..
But you do need to have matching battery array to keep up with own consumption.

This is on top of the efficiency what is usually calculated for 85%.

3000+100 watt is 85%, the battery is drained by 3650 watt.
Lucky, most Inverters are more efficient then 85%.

This own power consumption goes on top of conversion efficiency.

Most inverters can work 24/7 @80% rated capacity.

And if you can avoid your peak..
(No water cooker and microwave at the same time) you might safe a lot in the long run.

Going bigger does have its additional costs, always.
Even if you don't use it.

 

[TSher]

EPever is usually the better quality.
Unlike EASun, who have usually garbage.

I seen the specifications, and they look OK
Manual doesn't mention lithium battery...
That can be a bad thing if you want to use the MPPT for LiFePO4.

Sadly they use the same powerful dual 80mm fans to do all the cooling as most other brands.

While effective enough, they are LOUD!!
Especially if you use the MPPT.

That being said..
Can be a good buy.
It's not Outback or Victron.
Nor had it's pricetag...

You really should consider the noise level.
You can not be working in the same room as the hybrid when it's charging your batteries.
If it's in your garage...
Your all set!

Would you want to install these in the underneath cabinet of your RV let's say to dampen the noise? Or would you want it inside the rig?

 

[Frank in Thailand]

I don't have RV, so I can't tell the difference.
It needs sufficient fresh (cool) air going inside and hot air outside.

If your cabinet have space to blow the hot air out (= additional fan) or open space and have fan blow the coil air Inside (= additional fan) then having any inverter in confined space is doing OK.

It's the heat that is the problem.
Not the noise. That's just symptom from removing the heat.

I will not suggest this to anyone.
Electricity wise it's huge waistings...
But if you would place it in working refrigerator, it would dampen the noise of the fans and have enough cool air, and system in place to remove the heat from the heated air.

You get the idea

That's just about as good as you can get it.
Depending on the temperature, and your usage, the fans will run 25-50% is acceptable.
50-100% is loud, to loud to sleep closeby.

Temperature under 25 Celcius, and load about 1/3 of rating will give you 25-50% fan speed, if the fans can continue to suck in the 25 degree Celcius air.

If it's confined, and that air slowly heats up, so will your fan speed increase.

Fresh air in and hot air outside are the magic words.

 

[TSher]

I don't have RV, so I can't tell the difference.
It needs sufficient fresh (cool) air going inside and hot air outside.

If your cabinet have space to blow the hot air out (= additional fan) or open space and have fan blow the coil air Inside (= additional fan) then having any inverter in confined space is doing OK.

It's the heat that is the problem.
Not the noise. That's just symptom from removing the heat.

I will not suggest this to anyone.
Electricity wise it's huge waistings...
But if you would place it in working refrigerator, it would dampen the noise of the fans and have enough cool air, and system in place to remove the heat from the heated air.

You get the idea

That's just about as good as you can get it.
Depending on the temperature, and your usage, the fans will run 25-50% is acceptable.
50-100% is loud, to loud to sleep closeby.

Temperature under 25 Celcius, and load about 1/3 of rating will give you 25-50% fan speed, if the fans can continue to suck in the 25 degree Celcius air.

If it's confined, and that air slowly heats up, so will your fan speed increase.

Fresh air in and hot air outside are the magic words.

Thank you that's a good point about the temperature! I'm going to keep researching this more but I think I'll probably end up buying each component separately.

Thank you again for taking the time 2 reply.

 

[Frank in Thailand]

You are more then welcome.
EPever have good passively cooled MPPT for solar, perhaps even passive cooled Inverters.

I've seen one unit, mppt and inverter, passively cooled.
Max +/- 1800 watt, and higher price range. (Like 600 USD) not EPever, different brand but good.
It doesn't have LiFePO4 settings also, again, not a big probem.
Especially with active balancer BMS I wrote about earlier.

If you like I can try to find the name of that product