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Epoch 12V/460Ah IP67 after two months. Balancing: Oof!

It is unfortunate V1 not able to update. And weird that V2 needs an update new out of the box, it’s like they weren’t quite ready yet and shipped them anyway. A bit of a 🚩.

Yeah have seen that 314ah SOK. Plenty of 300AH ish batteries out there, I’m looking to have about 12kwh and these 460ah offerings get me close enough and are comparatively space efficient.
Has anyone confirmed Epoch not offering any support for V1? Any actually failing? Haven’t seen that if so.

With advances in batteries and costs low right now I’m tempted to go for 2 of the lower priced 460ah batteries. like Temgot, Vartrer, or Litime.
But seeing the build quality of the V2 on a couple yt’s last night it’s tough to deny wanting that.
However, one thing I noticed on the LithiumSolar review is it appears the V2 heating pad is only on one side?
I don’t get that at all.
 
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What a bummer, this battery choice (2) has now dropped to the bottom of my list. And it looks so good on the inside, though I question why heat on only one side and am not pleased about the drop in continuous discharge amps on V2.

Just saw this unfortunate and really poor customer service experience on a Sprinter forum:
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@Will Prowse fyi
 
Ya, that's a massive hit to their reputation, right there. When I called, I got someone on the phone easily. Might have been Steven, but I don't remember.

I have not received the windows tablet with BMS software yet. Might have to follow up on that. Hopefully I'll reach someone.
 
Hello Craig,

We sincerely regret the frustrating experience you have had with our products and service. Your concerns are important to us, and we appreciate the time and effort you have put into testing, reporting, and communicating your issues with us. We acknowledge that we have fallen short in multiple areas and would like to address each of your concerns directly.


1. Product Quality & Overcharging Issue

We acknowledge that one of the B12460A Version 1 batteries you received had a defective positive terminal. While we promptly replaced it at no cost, we recognize that this should not have happened in the first place.

Regarding the charging issue, we have never offered or advertised a "multi-stage" charger so I'm unsure where you received that information or if there was just some confusion.

You mentioned the batteries were being overcharged. I'm fairly certain that is not the case given all the protections in place for this model but regardless we will take a look at your data to help figure out what might be happening in your instance.


2. Website Changes & Lack of Transparency

As part of our ongoing product improvement process, we introduced Version 2 (V2) of our batteries to improve on the V1 model. This is no way suggests any issues at all with the V1 model, we simply made some upgrades such as the ability to update the firmware over the air, increase scalability from 4 battery packs to 16, upgraded battery gauge and so on. Customers who are looking for a firmware upgrade to the V1 unit, we will provide that when the firmware is fully tested and ready but we'll note there are tens of thousands of these batteries working perfectly fine in the field so a firmware update is not an absolute necessity.

We understand how frustrating it must have been to see product information removed from our website during your testing phase. This was never intended to be misleading or evasive; rather, it was part of a transition to our updated V2 models.

However, we recognize that our lack of proactive communication about these changes created confusion, and we should have been more transparent about the improvements we were making and how they would affect customers who already owned V1 units.


3. Customer Support & Communication Failures

It is completely unacceptable that your calls, emails, and texts went unanswered leading up to your scheduled visit to Stockbridge. We deeply regret the lack of communication and recognize that this caused unnecessary frustration and inconvenience, especially considering your long-distance travel.

We acknowledge that Stephen and other representatives failed to follow up as promised. This does not reflect the level of service we strive for, and we are taking immediate internal actions to prevent similar situations in the future.


4. Delays & Facility Concerns

We apologize for any delays in staff availability when you arrived at our Stockbridge location. Our standard business hours should be maintained, and we recognize the frustration of waiting for responses and unclear timelines.

As for your observations about our facility, this location operates as a distribution and logistics hub rather than a full-scale production or engineering center. While we do have internal product testing, customer support, and warranty teams, they operate remotely and at separate locations. That said, we understand why the facility’s setup may have raised concerns about our long-term warranty commitments, and we take that feedback seriously.


5. Resolution & Next Steps

We deeply regret that this experience led you to file a PayPal claim and decide to sever ties with Epoch. While we respect your decision, we would still like to make things right.


  • If you are open to it, we can issue a full refund immediately, no questions asked.
  • Alternatively, if you prefer, we can ship the fully tested V2 replacements to your home at no cost.
  • We will also ensure that a senior member of our team personally follows up with you to ensure the resolution is handled to your satisfaction.

6. Commitment to Improvement

Your experience has highlighted serious gaps in our customer service, product communication, and transparency. We are taking the following steps to improve:


  • Implementing better tracking and response systems to ensure no customer inquiries go unanswered.
  • Enhancing our website clarity so product information remains available even during transitions.
  • Strengthening pre-release product testing to avoid known issues in future launches.
  • Increasing customer service training and accountability to prevent unresolved cases like yours.
We sincerely appreciate your feedback, and while we regret your dissatisfaction, we hope this response shows our commitment to acknowledging and correcting our mistakes.

Please let us know how you would like to proceed, and we will ensure a resolution that respects your time and trust.

Sincerely,
Chris Hurley
Epoch Batteries
 
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All the bold mid-sentence screams ChatGPT but still issue full refund or replacements with V2 doesn't look too bad. That's why people by name brands is the warrantee stuff, right?
 
Holy cow! Those are some of my favorite batteries ever. Sending this to them now and looking forward to their response
I have sent them numerous emails about questions and concerns on the new v2 I have. No response either. Definitely does not live up to the build quality or price. There's other threads with similar experience as well.
 
Ya, that's a massive hit to their reputation, right there. When I called, I got someone on the phone easily. Might have been Steven, but I don't remember.

I have not received the windows tablet with BMS software yet. Might have to follow up on that. Hopefully I'll reach someone.
When I’ve called Epoch (twice) I was able to speak with a rep no problem. Also had responses to emails, though at least one response was less than ideal, a slight bit of a jerk response for a business.
Could’ve just been having a bad day, it happens.
 
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@Chris -Epoch Batteries
Here's the email I sent but got no response.


I recieved the new 12v 460 v2 battery and have been using it for about a week now but I have some questions and concerns.
I updated it per the instructions on the website but there's no way to make sure it's actually updated?
The BMS has not reached 100% despite being charged to 14.2v daily and 2hr absorption, 14.3v disables charging. It showed about 4ah short of 460ah. The cells are not balancing and at 14.2v it's showing .06v or more cell difference with no indication of balancing happening. In the app, the history section gives me an error that no device is connected but I can view the battery on other tabs.
There also seems to be .1-. 3v difference between the BMS and my smart shunt and fluke 88, the shunt and fluke show the same voltage but the BMS is constantly low.
Thank you.

I will also ask the question what is the red light for between the on/off switch and dip switches? What do the flashing patterns mean? No information anywhere on your website or manual.
 
@Chris -Epoch Batteries
Here's the email I sent but got no response.


I recieved the new 12v 460 v2 battery and have been using it for about a week now but I have some questions and concerns.
I updated it per the instructions on the website but there's no way to make sure it's actually updated?
The BMS has not reached 100% despite being charged to 14.2v daily and 2hr absorption, 14.3v disables charging. It showed about 4ah short of 460ah. The cells are not balancing and at 14.2v it's showing .06v or more cell difference with no indication of balancing happening. In the app, the history section gives me an error that no device is connected but I can view the battery on other tabs.
There also seems to be .1-. 3v difference between the BMS and my smart shunt and fluke 88, the shunt and fluke show the same voltage but the BMS is constantly low.
Thank you.

I will also ask the question what is the red light for between the on/off switch and dip switches? What do the flashing patterns mean? No information anywhere on your website or manual.
Let us know what you hear and how this is resolved. We have on the order of 100 (mostly 48 V) electric golf carts on my little island, and when they recently asked for my advice for lithium replacements, I almost said epoch, because they were sponsors of this forum and seemed to have some decent solutions in this space.

However, after reading some of the reviews, and some of the issues, I recommended a couple of other vendors instead.🤷‍♂️

Reputation is easy to lose and really hard to build back.
 
Yup, same for me. I returned the two Epoch 460 Ah V1’s as I wanted Victron Comms for our Sprinter Van. After all the frustration with those and not being able to use the Victron Comms properly and charging issues, I contacted Epoch and they agreed to take back the older V1’s. I spoke with James and he basically said to purchase the new V2’s and would send me labels to return the V1’s. I paid for the new ones and received them. I sent back the two V1’s and still waiting on the refund though. The V1 batteries were returned to their Stockbridge, GA location last week.

My issue has not been with communication or getting responses from Epoch but in trying to get my problem resolved.

With the two new ones, I’m running into the same problem as Outboard1196 and have not been able to get the cells balanced or charged up to 100%. I have been trying to get them balanced one battery at a time for about a week now. I have them on my Victron charger at 15A’s and when they get to about 14.3, the BMS cuts off charging and the red blinking light on top of the battery will come on. I shut the battery off to reset it and start the charging process and again it does the same thing. Keep in mind that there are no loads on the batteries yet. I spoke with a few tech guys at Epoch but finally started working with just one guy -(Geoff).

This was his last email response:

“After consulting with my senior technician, he thinks that the red light is likely an overvoltage alarm. We are discovering that a full charge protection can be triggered on your battery at 14.3 volts. Please reset your bulk/absorption charger settings to 14V for the first few charge cycles. If you don't get any alarms, you can try 14.1V. Set float voltage to 13.5V. If you can, please discharge the battery a few percent and then charge to full with the new settings. Also, you should be able to remove the blinking red light by cycling the battery off and on. Before you turn the battery back on, please turn off or disconnect the charger. Once the battery is back on, you can turn on or reconnect the charger.

Please let us know if you continue to have issues.”
All the best,
Geoff


I’ve been away for a few days since I last spoke with him but since I’ve been gone, I left one battery on the charger at 14.0 and when I got back yesterday, it’s sitting at 98% and 13.4v’s. For some reason the BMS will not let the battery charge. I’m not sure what the heck is going on but I would’ve thought that after their issues with the V1’s, the V2’s would be ready for prime time which I feel they’re not.
 

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My best advice for these 12V/460Ah batteries is to not use them until you are able to balance the cells. The batteries come from the manufacturer WAY out of balance, and even at 13.9V can throw cell OV alerts. The balancer should come on and start balancing at 13.6V, but it is extremely slow. The view in the app that shows the cells also shows balancing activity by highlighting the cell that is being discharged by the balancer.

I saw someone mention it took a day to balance a 100Ah battery, so it will take over 100hrs to balance a 460Ah battery. (which is how long it took me to balance mine)

Here's a detailed list of actions I think every new owner should take with their battery (this could be good advice for ANY new LiFePo4 battery):
  1. Receive the battery. Do not connect it to anything yet.
  2. Configure a charger for absorb and float voltages to be the same at 13.95V, with a 4-hour absorption period and no tail current.
  3. Charge the battery.
  4. Watch the app for cell balancing activity and/or cell OV alert or any other "protection".
  5. If you get an alert, let the charger run until balancing activity stops in the app or absorption ends.
  6. Discharge the battery just enough to re-enable the charge MOSFETS and clear the alert.
  7. Repeat from #3 until you no longer get OV alerts and balancing activity no longer initiates at full charge.
  8. Increment the charge voltage to 14.0V and resume charging.
  9. Hold the charge voltage until all balancing activity stops, or absorption ends.
  10. Discharge the battery a bit to cycle it.
  11. Repeat from #8, incrementing another 0.1V or maybe 0.05V if you start getting OV alerts again.
  12. Once you have incremented to 14.45V or maybe 14.5V and are getting full charges without an alert, stop incrementing and make note of that voltage.
  13. This is your max charge voltage, only to be used when you want to force balancing.
  14. Reconfigure your charger to absorb at 14.2V, with a tail current of 5A (can go as low as 3.5A) and float at 13.6V
  15. Connect the battery and use it as usual with the reconfigured lower voltage settings.
  16. Set up a schedule to charge up to your max voltage about once per couple weeks to couple months, depending on how far out of balance the cells get during regular cycling.
 
The view in the app that shows the cells also shows balancing activity by highlighting the cell that is being discharged by the balancer.
At 14.2v and. 06v+ imbalance I saw no balancing taking place. Ovp was not in effect
 
At 14.2v and. 06v+ imbalance I saw no balancing taking place. Ovp was not in effect
If the battery discharges even slightly, balancing will stop. You have to hold that charge voltage high and keep it there, even if the battery does a full charge alert or cell OVP and its internal voltage starts to drop. Also, make sure you have the latest app version. Hopefully, this is not an Apple vs Google difference in the apps. I have an Android phone.
 
If the battery discharges even slightly, balancing will stop. You have to hold that charge voltage high and keep it there, even if the battery does a full charge alert or cell OVP and its internal voltage starts to drop. Also, make sure you have the latest app version. Hopefully, this is not an Apple vs Google difference in the apps. I have an Android phone.
I have android, I set abs to 2 hrs daily I check when current had gone to 0
 
My best advice for these 12V/460Ah batteries is to not use them until you are able to balance the cells. The batteries come from the manufacturer WAY out of balance, and even at 13.9V can throw cell OV alerts. The balancer should come on and start balancing at 13.6V, but it is extremely slow. The view in the app that shows the cells also shows balancing activity by highlighting the cell that is being discharged by the balancer.

I saw someone mention it took a day to balance a 100Ah battery, so it will take over 100hrs to balance a 460Ah battery. (which is how long it took me to balance mine)

Here's a detailed list of actions I think every new owner should take with their battery (this could be good advice for ANY new LiFePo4 battery):
  1. Receive the battery. Do not connect it to anything yet.
  2. Configure a charger for absorb and float voltages to be the same at 13.95V, with a 4-hour absorption period and no tail current.
  3. Charge the battery.
  4. Watch the app for cell balancing activity and/or cell OV alert or any other "protection".
  5. If you get an alert, let the charger run until balancing activity stops in the app or absorption ends.
  6. Discharge the battery just enough to re-enable the charge MOSFETS and clear the alert.
  7. Repeat from #3 until you no longer get OV alerts and balancing activity no longer initiates at full charge.
  8. Increment the charge voltage to 14.0V and resume charging.
  9. Hold the charge voltage until all balancing activity stops, or absorption ends.
  10. Discharge the battery a bit to cycle it.
  11. Repeat from #8, incrementing another 0.1V or maybe 0.05V if you start getting OV alerts again.
  12. Once you have incremented to 14.45V or maybe 14.5V and are getting full charges without an alert, stop incrementing and make note of that voltage.
  13. This is your max charge voltage, only to be used when you want to force balancing.
  14. Reconfigure your charger to absorb at 14.2V, with a tail current of 5A (can go as low as 3.5A) and float at 13.6V
  15. Connect the battery and use it as usual with the reconfigured lower voltage settings.
  16. Set up a schedule to charge up to your max voltage about once per couple weeks to couple months, depending on how far out of balance the cells get during regular cycling.

Thanks for the advice and I appreciate it. I'm going to give this a try.
 
So disappointing to see all this is going on.
I mean these are not low cost WattCycle, Eco Worthy, or Litime batteries… which seem to work fine for people.
These are comparatively expensive, high spec, high quality build, robust features and case etc.
But they don’t work correctly. 🫤
 
I think where they faltered is that they set up the BMS to only work in a situation that has heavy loads and high charge rates. They didn't consider the large number of use cases that will put a light load on the battery and need a long lasting power source.

In something like an RV trailer, largely the loads are only 5-10A. You can load down the battery with 100 amps if you run an inverter against it. But largely the loads in my trailer are in the sub 10 amp range. And the solar is only 300W, so it maxes out at a 10 amp charge rate this time of year.

Even a 5 amp charge on a 460 amp hour battery is nearly trickle charge level current. 4.6A is 0.01C.

This looks like an AI response because I did it with speech to text on my phone. 😁
 
I think where they faltered is that they set up the BMS to only work in a situation that has heavy loads and high charge rates. They didn't consider the large number of use cases that will put a light load on the battery and need a long lasting power source.

In something like an RV trailer, largely the loads are only 5-10A. You can load down the battery with 100 amps if you run an inverter against it. But largely the loads in my trailer are in the sub 10 amp range. And the solar is only 300W, so it maxes out at a 10 amp charge rate this time of year.

Even a 5 amp charge on a 460 amp hour battery is nearly trickle charge level current. 4.6A is 0.01C.

This looks like an AI response because I did it with speech to text on my phone. 😁
I charge at 70A from solar, still terrible balancing...
 
Yes! One of the ways they faltered is in putting a low current passive balancer in a 460Ah battery. If the charge rate must be greater than 5A, then the balancer should be working at AT LEAST 5A. Form my experience, it seems to actually be in the 50-150mA range.
Ah I misunderstood
 
Yes! One of the ways they faltered is in putting a low current passive balancer in a 460Ah battery. If the charge rate must be greater than 5A, then the balancer should be working at AT LEAST 5A. Form my experience, it seems to actually be in the 50-150mA range.

There really isn't anything wrong with a low current passive balancer in a 460Ah battery if it's configured properly and built from quality matched cells. Given the price point, I would expect this.

If a battery builder needs a 5A balancer, they need to leave the business.

Many imbalances are very small %, and a few days or maybe even a week can restore balance.

Even the pitiful ~40mA balancers can adjust a battery by 1Ah/24 hours. 50-150mA is nothing to sneeze at. I have a "dumb" 8S LFP JBD that balances at 150mA, and it's actually kinda impressive.


The biggest obstacle is how hard it is to avoid imbalance upon receipt. Hazmat shipping requirements and duration between last charge and arrival at the customer's door (90+days) means imbalance is very common.

Unfortunately, it seems they made a VERY poor choice with BMS configs. Simply disabling "balance only while charging" can readly maintain balance even with a weak passive balancer.
 

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