Eve 280 vs Lishen 272, Xuba vs Basen?

[JohanB]

I am about to order 4pcs ~280Ah cells to sweden for a van conversion. Been reading all posts here and sent a bunch of RFQs and have now nailed it down either Eve or Lishen from either Xuba or Basen. So grateful for all the support and knowledge I found in this forum!

The offers I have received incl train shipping DDP to sweden are:
Basen (Aimee Lee):
436 USD for Lishen
Xuba (Selina Li):
405 USD for Lishen and 460 USD for EVE

Basen claims they have tested each cells and guarantee they all have minimum 280Ah capacity. She sent me a picture of 4 cells with labels showing numbers in the range 283.1-283.9. Xuba responded the Lishen cells will be below 280Ah ans that I should go for eve if I want higher capacity. Xuba also said they just got 500 new eve cells.

One thing I am a little bit concerned about are the bus bar screw threads. I asked Selina at Xuba about it and she claims they are all M4. From what I understand in this forum the previous eve cells have had M6 screws? I have not yet found any clear reports about the screws on the Lishen cells. M6 would feel much better to me.

Any recommendations on what to go for? Does anyone know if Basen does some kind of capacity testing and sorting and matches cells with higher capacity and cells as 280? Or would it most likely be the same as from xuba? Any clarity on the screw sizes?

I will be super grateful for any kind of aupport from someone woth more experience.
Thank you

 

[JohanB]

 

[JohanB]

Thats the picture with capacity labels I got from Basen

 

[charlesrg]

I'm on the same boat itchy to purchase at least 16 280ah cells and might increase up to 32 cells if I can get full confidence in the seller however so far I'm very confused with all the long posts that sometimes just make me super confused.

 

[JohanB]

Basen have now confirmed that their Lishen cells come with M6 screws and Xuba that their cells have M4! Would be really interesting to hear what you guys actually got?

 

[Gazoo]

Basen have now confirmed that their Lishen cells come with M6 screws and Xuba that their cells have M4! Would be really interesting to hear what you guys actually got?

I would ask Xuba again. M4 seems really strange to me.

 

[KenDan]

View attachment 31018

I'm skeptical about capacity numbers like this being actually measured. This is a time and energy intensive process which would add greatly to the cost of the cells. I'd be very interested to know if anyone was able to verify the accuracy of these numbers once they receive their cells.

 

[JohanB]

I would ask Xuba again. M4 seems really strange to me.

Ok now Xuba also confirmed the screws are M6 so all good!

 

[JohanB]

I'm skeptical about capacity numbers like this being actually measured. This is a time and energy intensive process which would add greatly to the cost of the cells. I'd be very interested to know if anyone was able to verify the accuracy of these numbers once they receive their cells.

Yeah me too! I now got a message from Xuba saying they also offer to capacity test the cells and only ship cells tested above 280 Ah to me. Without additional cost.

 

[JoeHam]

I'm skeptical about capacity numbers like this being actually measured. This is a time and energy intensive process which would add greatly to the cost of the cells.

Yeah, that’s not happening.

See here:

STATUS of ESS/Storage Cells being purchased. (commodity cells)

Introduction: I posted this into a response and felt that this should have its own thread as a point of clarification. There has been much debate, discusion and even theories, conjecture & postulation. All of this creates confusion due to many perceived points, real or otherwise. This is by...

diysolarforum.com

 

[Dzl]

Basen claims they have tested each cells and guarantee they all have minimum 280Ah capacity. She sent me a picture of 4 cells with labels showing numbers in the range 283.1-283.9.

I'm skeptical about capacity numbers like this being actually measured. This is a time and energy intensive process which would add greatly to the cost of the cells. I'd be very interested to know if anyone was able to verify the accuracy of these numbers once they receive their cells.

So in the early days of the group buy (for the EVE cells), the first few rounds of buyers were told that cells would be individually tested for Capacity, IR, and Voltage. And that all cells tested above 280Ah (I think).

When the cells arrived, IR and Voltage were handwritten on the cells, but the capacity was listed as 280Ah for every cell with zero variation. When people began capacity testing to verify capacity the numbers were not all at or above 280, and there was quite a bit of variance, even within single orders (buyers had been told cells would be matched for capacity I believe). Tested capacity ranged from the mid 260's to the mid 280's with most tests showing in the ballpark of 270-280. It became quite clear that not only were the cells not matched or individually tested for capacity, but that many of them did not meet the minimum capacity. At the price this was always reasonably possible/likely, but it showed that the reseller(s) were not actually doing the testing/matching they indicated they did (maybe this is deception/overpromising, maybe it was lost in translation) or were using a misleadingly soft/unrealistic test methodology. It also indicates these were not grade A cells. I don't recall whether this was one or more resellers that was involved in this, I do know one of the resellers was Basen. It turns out they were capacity testing, but not individually, they were randomly capacity testing cells from the batches they bought. This was very different than what they said they would do, and many people rightfully felt mislead. (this is all my recollection of events, I was not personally affected by this situation, but was following it)

From the look of the picture, it looks like they have either (1) improved their process of testing, or (2) made the misleading impression more convincing by hand writing specific capacity numbers (3 decimal places seems excessive ). I will give them the benefit of the doubt and assume it is possible that they listened to the negative feedback, and now better understand what customers want and are making an effort to improve. And those are actual capacity test numbers. But I would take any claims about testing or matching with a big grain of salt, without asking them to clarify the specific details of the testing. Between miscommunication and misleading marketing, it is a buyer beware market.

As to which cells to choose, I would probably go with Lishen, they are somewhat untested so far compared to the EVE cells (and issues with the EVE cells were not broadly recognized or acknowledged for over 6 months). Both are probably B grade cells, but both are probably mostly fine and usable for low C-rate energy storage applications, we don't know exactly how much variance the Lishen cells will have in capacity yet, the resellers seem to think highly of them, but then they are trying to sell us on them, and do not have a perfect track record with reliable info. I have seen one set (of 4) Lishen cells tested, they did all meet rated capacity but fell short of reseller claims of being 280-285. I believe the numbers were something like: 273, 275, 280, 283. Still that means every cell met rated capacity, and fall into the same ballpark of actual capacity as the EVE cells for a lower cost.

If the Basen numbers are honest, getting 4 ~280ish Ah cells matched to within 1Ah of eachother for under $450 is a very good deal if there are no other issues (which is always a possibility with discount cells).

 

[JohanB]

So in the early days of the group buy (for the EVE cells), the first few rounds of buyers were told that cells would be individually tested for Capacity, IR, and Voltage. And that all cells tested above 280Ah (I think).

When the cells arrived, IR and Voltage were handwritten on the cells, but the capacity was listed as 280Ah for every cell with zero variation. When people began capacity testing to verify capacity the numbers were not all at or above 280, and there was quite a bit of variance, even within single orders (buyers had been told cells would be matched for capacity I believe). Tested capacity ranged from the mid 260's to the mid 280's with most tests showing in the ballpark of 270-280. It became quite clear that not only were the cells not matched or individually tested for capacity, but that many of them did not meet the minimum capacity. At the price this was always reasonably possible/likely, but it showed that the reseller(s) were not actually doing the testing/matching they indicated they did (maybe this is deception/overpromising, maybe it was lost in translation) or were using a misleadingly soft/unrealistic test methodology. It also indicates these were not grade A cells. I don't recall whether this was one or more resellers that was involved in this, I do know one of the resellers was Basen. It turns out they were capacity testing, but not individually, they were randomly capacity testing cells from the batches they bought. This was very different than what they said they would do, and many people rightfully felt mislead. (this is all my recollection of events, I was not personally affected by this situation, but was following it)

From the look of the picture, it looks like they have either (1) improved their process of testing, or (2) made the misleading impression more convincing by hand writing specific capacity numbers (3 decimal places seems excessive ). I will give them the benefit of the doubt and assume it is possible that they listened to the negative feedback, and now better understand what customers want and are making an effort to improve. And those are actual capacity test numbers. But I would take any claims about testing or matching with a big grain of salt, without asking them to clarify the specific details of the testing. Between miscommunication and misleading marketing, it is a buyer beware market.

As to which cells to choose, I would probably go with Lishen, they are somewhat untested so far compared to the EVE cells (and issues with the EVE cells were not broadly recognized or acknowledged for over 6 months). Both are probably B grade cells, but both are probably mostly fine and usable for low C-rate energy storage applications, we don't know exactly how much variance the Lishen cells will have in capacity yet, the resellers seem to think highly of them, but then they are trying to sell us on them, and do not have a perfect track record with reliable info. I have seen one set (of 4) Lishen cells tested, they did all meet rated capacity but fell short of reseller claims of being 280-285. I believe the numbers were something like: 273, 275, 280, 283. Still that means every cell met rated capacity, and fall into the same ballpark of actual capacity as the EVE cells for a lower cost.

If the Basen numbers are honest, getting 4 ~280ish Ah cells matched to within 1Ah of eachother for under $450 is a very good deal if there are no other issues (which is always a possibility with discount cells).

Thank you so much Dzl for you very helpful and informative information! Very well summarized.

 

[ArthurEld]

Yeah me too! I now got a message from Xuba saying they also offer to capacity test the cells and only ship cells tested above 280 Ah to me. Without additional cost.

That's awesome. There are others here who claim to always get over 280Ah.

 

[ramiws]

I got this from Basen:
*Unit price:US$87/pc; 4pcs=US$348
*Shipping cost:US$159 To Finland
TOTAL AMOUNT:USD507

How much was the shipping to Sweden from Basen?

 

[JohanB]

I got this from Basen:
*Unit price:US$87/pc; 4pcs=US$348
*Shipping cost:US$159 To Finland
TOTAL AMOUNT:USD507

How much was the shipping to Sweden from Basen?

I payed 146! And 75 each for the cells. However that quote was from early December, and I heard the prices on the cells have gone up and the shipping waries over time.

 

[Sanwizard]

I am being quoted $79 per cell and $399 shipping for 16 cells to NY. Does that sound reasonable? I spoke with Shelly feom Shenzhen Jidian Tech off Alibaba.

 

[charlesrg]

I am being quoted $79 per cell and $399 shipping for 16 cells to NY. Does that sound reasonable? I spoke with Shelly feom Shenzhen Jidian Tech off Alibaba.

Where in NY, I'm in Guttenberg NJ and have my 16 cells arriving next week

 

[Sanwizard]

That is exactly what I paid to Long Island.

 

[Sanwizard]

I am being quoted $79 per cell and $399 shipping for 16 cells to NY. Does that sound reasonable? I spoke with Shelly feom Shenzhen Jidian Tech off Alibaba.

And from exactly the same place. I also spoke with Shenzen Jidian Tech. Mine have not arrived yet, so I cannot comment on quality. I also orded 16 from Michael on the group buy thread, and that was the most cost efficient way to go. You can select M6 or M8 posts and busbars to come with it also, and Michael provides the option for 5 bucks more per cell to have them tested and grouped.

 

[Sanwizard]

I am being quoted $79 per cell and $399 shipping for 16 cells to NY. Does that sound reasonable? I spoke with Shelly feom Shenzhen Jidian Tech off Alibaba.

What BMS are you getting, and from who?