EVE identifies Grade B cells using new marking Method [Reposting from General]

[Alkaline]

I don't think truth has anything to do with it, I think people looking to buy compared prices basen and others had vs official eve store and were like F that Eve official store is a rip off I'll just buy these half price cells from liokotta or whatever.

Eve realized ohh snap we created a monster! So now they are marking these only to stop it form cannibalizing sales there official store & prices. But overall this was good, whether or not you want to pony up the cash for EV grade is different story, but it ends the cloud of confusion that was happening earlier where everyone was claiming, "Ohh yes grade A perfect with Cherry on top" ?

 

[zolee]

I think EVE should set up a web service where anyone can check they'r cells QR code. You simply enter the code and the page pulls they own test data. That kills the fakes instantly.

Similar to the authenticity check some manufacturers have for they products. It can show the basic test report and the number of times this code was checked.

API access would be nice, so one can integrate that service into 3rd party apps like the new Cell checker.

 

[Just John]

I think EVE should set up a web service where anyone can check they'r cells QR code. You simply enter the code and the page pulls they own test data. That kills the fakes instantly.

Similar to the authenticity check some manufacturers have for they products. It can show the basic test report and the number of times this code was checked.

API access would be nice, so one can integrate that service into 3rd party apps like the new Cell checker.

I can think of many business reasons why EVE will continue to not allow access to their cell data. Anyone can laser print a barcode on a cell and return it for warranty replacement would be a great reason.

 

[zolee]

I can think of many business reasons why EVE will continue to not allow access to their cell data. Anyone can laser print a barcode on a cell and return it for warranty replacement would be a great reason.

I believe they have records of what is sold and to who. And if you are trying to get replacement for something you didn't bought they'll just ignore you. Big buyers wont do that anyway, when they find a cell that's for return they'll get it reimbursed on next order.

I don't see how can you get enough data (to recreate QR code) from a service that gives you only the basic data, and only for the cell you asked for, plus keeps count of number of times it's requested, date/time and maybe even IP address of request.

I have experience with those kinds, with genuine and faked codes. The genuine will tell you that the product is " X Y Z" and checked 0 times before. The fake will tell you the same, but checked at least one times before. I had bought vape stuff before that showed up with big red warning on they're page because it was checked hundreds of times and clearly fake. Returned immediately.
I've also tested almost every product with this kind of protection I ever bought with second check. All tested codes returned a warning on second check, telling that it was already checked X times earlier and if it's not me to return to seller.

 

[Alkaline]

These are good points, probably why EVE is considering leaving the DIY business altogether because of the issues, I think the days of getting grade A cells, true grade A are numbered:

1) They cost too much
2) people are cheap
3) grade B market is so entrenched, they will fight tooth and nail, fake QR codes, other tactics
4) The hobby side is probably less than 1% of there business but 90% of there problems...

I'm not trying to stir up FUD, but they already don't sell to individuals because of shipping problems then they even had to start marking defective cells with a B just to stop competing with themselves.

 

[RandyP]

I would think that if a battery distributer (call them that just for fun) like SFK wants to continue buying boxes or pallets or A (automotive Grade) Batteries directly from a Battery Manufacturer (EV), have DIY friemdly term points added to each cell and have them packaged and shipped in a carton that does not destroy the batteries during shipping, there is a market for the high quality A (automotive Grade) cells in the US. Some people have deeper pockets than other, and like to buy Quality Cells. Just my opinion.

 

[Alkaline]

I would think that if a battery distributer (call them that just for fun) like SFK wants to continue buying boxes or pallets or A (automotive Grade) Batteries directly from a Battery Manufacturer (EV), have DIY friemdly term points added to each cell and have them packaged and shipped in a carton that does not destroy the batteries during shipping, there is a market for the high quality A (automotive Grade) cells in the US. Some people have deeper pockets than other, and like to buy Quality Cells. Just my opinion.

I don't agree with this, while in principal I would say you are right, money talks and very loudly at that. I would only suggest grade A EV if you are a professional or a company that requires certs e.t.c or if you are only planning on making a single 4 cell battery.

If you are doing what most are doing here, then grade B + some spares will be your best bet.

My stance would change on this If you have people saying the lifespan of grade B was greatly diminished once put in use e.g. instead of like the 280K cell being 265-282 range that grade B is when its new, all of a sudden falls to like 240-250 after 1-2 years.

In other words grade B currently isn't loosing to grade A because of a capacity battle, however, the real unknown is life span does grade B have the same life span as grade A, because if it turns out that grade B are dying at half the life span as grade A then grade A has a strong case for itself.

On the flipside is grade B turns out to last just as long as grade A, then people who paid for grade A are just suckers.

Time will tell.

As for me, need someone with one of these fancy testers to test my xuba cells which I believe are now dead or close to, I can't even run a heat 1000 watt het gun on my 8s pack of EVE 280s.


BTW xuba no longer exists; so much for my bs 5 year warranty...

 

[RandyP]

I don't agree with this, while in principal I would say you are right, money talks and very loudly at that. I would only suggest grade A EV if you are a professional or a company that requires certs e.t.c or if you are only planning on making a single 4 cell battery.

If you are doing what most are doing here, then grade B + some spares will be your best bet.

My stance would change on this If you have people saying the lifespan of grade B was greatly diminished once put in use e.g. instead of like the 280K cell being 265-282 range that grade B is when its new, all of a sudden falls to like 240-250 after 1-2 years.

In other words grade B currently isn't loosing to grade A because of a capacity battle, however, the real unknown is life span does grade B have the same life span as grade A, because if it turns out that grade B are dying at half the life span as grade A then grade A has a strong case for itself.

On the flipside is grade B turns out to last just as long as grade A, then people who paid for grade A are just suckers.

Time will tell.

As for me, need someone with one of these fancy testers to test my xuba cells which I believe are now dead or close to, I can't even run a heat 1000 watt het gun on my 8s pack of EVE 280s.


BTW xuba no longer exists; so much for my bs 5 year warranty...

You have stated my case even better than I could. If the battery distributer is not in business for the warranty period of the battery, there is no warranty. And they know this very well. Save your pennies for replacement of that fake A(utomoive) Group battery at the end of its potentially relatively short life. That's my opinion !

 

[Alkaline]

Well I don't know if it was just me or others had this issue, damn I remember when I posted my thread all excited?: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/m...ay-28-killowatts-now-to-figure-out-bms.11707/

 

[Blue Sky]

How to distinguish the New Grade A cells and Grade B cells, did they judge by appearance ？Do they differ much in terms of safety performance and service life? I do not know how to choose it

 

[Alkaline]

Grade A cells include a manufacturers test report grade B do not, see thread; https://diysolarforum.com/threads/are-we-all-getting-grade-b-cells.39156/

 

[Just John]

I believe they have records of what is sold and to who. And if you are trying to get replacement for something you didn't bought they'll just ignore you. Big buyers wont do that anyway, when they find a cell that's for return they'll get it reimbursed on next order.

I don't see how can you get enough data (to recreate QR code) from a service that gives you only the basic data, and only for the cell you asked for, plus keeps count of number of times it's requested, date/time and maybe even IP address of request.

I have experience with those kinds, with genuine and faked codes. The genuine will tell you that the product is " X Y Z" and checked 0 times before. The fake will tell you the same, but checked at least one times before. I had bought vape stuff before that showed up with big red warning on they're page because it was checked hundreds of times and clearly fake. Returned immediately.
I've also tested almost every product with this kind of protection I ever bought with second check. All tested codes returned a warning on second check, telling that it was already checked X times earlier and if it's not me to return to seller.

Like I said, MANY reasons, faked warranty claims are just one. Giving your competitors access to pass/fail rates for your manufacturing is another. Giving competitors or anyone the ability to data mine your production process is just a BAD IDEA.

 

[houseofancients]

I don't agree with this, while in principal I would say you are right, money talks and very loudly at that. I would only suggest grade A EV if you are a professional or a company that requires certs e.t.c or if you are only planning on making a single 4 cell battery.

If you are doing what most are doing here, then grade B + some spares will be your best bet.

My stance would change on this If you have people saying the lifespan of grade B was greatly diminished once put in use e.g. instead of like the 280K cell being 265-282 range that grade B is when its new, all of a sudden falls to like 240-250 after 1-2 years.

In other words grade B currently isn't loosing to grade A because of a capacity battle, however, the real unknown is life span does grade B have the same life span as grade A, because if it turns out that grade B are dying at half the life span as grade A then grade A has a strong case for itself.

On the flipside is grade B turns out to last just as long as grade A, then people who paid for grade A are just suckers.

Time will tell.

As for me, need someone with one of these fancy testers to test my xuba cells which I believe are now dead or close to, I can't even run a heat 1000 watt het gun on my 8s pack of EVE 280s.


BTW xuba no longer exists; so much for my bs 5 year warranty...

order a zketech EBC-A40L

def worth for me

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[zolee]

Like I said, MANY reasons, faked warranty claims are just one.

You need proof of purchase. If you didn't buy from them warranty is not even considered. And big players did not play those games. If someone is buying 100k or more cells per any time frame it has no time to play this kind of games. And they'r claims are always accepted and investigated.
This is valid for any industry.

Giving your competitors access to pass/fail rates for your manufacturing is another.

The method I wrote about before is the way manufacturers in some industries fight fakes, and it's working and worth the effort.

Giving competitors or anyone the ability to data mine your production process is just a BAD IDEA.

There are proven solutions that protects against this. Honestly, if you don't even try, and just give open unrestricted access to your data over internet you deserve it.

 

[Alkaline]

order a zketech EBC-A40L

def worth for me

149.0US $ |Ebc-a40l High Current Lithium Battery Iron Lithium Ternary Power Battery Capacity Tester Charge And Discharge 40a 110v/220v - Battery Testers - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

a.aliexpress.com

Shipping and tax more than the thing itself,

I was thinking about this:

 

[houseofancients]

Shipping and tax more than the thing itself,

I was thinking about this:

but it works well, reliable results and does so at 40 amps

 

[Just John]

You need proof of purchase. If you didn't buy from them warranty is not even considered. And big players did not play those games. If someone is buying 100k or more cells per any time frame it has no time to play this kind of games. And they'r claims are always accepted and investigated.
This is valid for any industry.

The method I wrote about before is the way manufacturers in some industries fight fakes, and it's working and worth the effort.

There are proven solutions that protects against this. Honestly, if you don't even try, and just give open unrestricted access to your data over internet you deserve it.

Then I suggest you explain all this to EVE while proposing your services to develop the software (that's REALLY not cheap, even in China). You can argue with me all you want; it won't do any good. I know there are legitimate reasons not to do as you suggest, but even if you convince me that opening your database to internet access is a good idea (it's not), that still means you have to convince EVE to drop a few hundred thousand to develop the software to allow it. First question they will ask is "what benefit is this?" None.

 

[RandyP]

Then I suggest you explain all this to EVE while proposing your services to develop the software (that's REALLY not cheap, even in China). You can argue with me all you want; it won't do any good. I know there are legitimate reasons not to do as you suggest, but even if you convince me that opening your database to internet access is a good idea (it's not), that still means you have to convince EVE to drop a few hundred thousand to develop the software to allow it. First question they will ask is "what benefit is this?" None.

"First question they will ask is "what benefit is this?" "
Just realize that we DIY battery builders are not really a significant part of their business. We are dumb enough to buy their rejected batteries, auctioned off by them to get some return on their culls, resold to us by questionable resellers, that tell us we are getting Grade A cells. There is no such thing as a grade A cell. There are Electric Vehicle Cells, and there are rejected EV cells. We buy the rejects. They have no warranty, they have no factory test data.
-
There are cell retailers that sell EV cells that have good test data and pass the Chinese government mandated tests for EV batteries that are to be sold to EV manufacturers. SFK is one retailer that can provide EVE cells directly to you with manufacturers test data sheets, and a manufacturers unique tracking number on each cell. Make no mistake, no one can be trusted here. Demand cells with the unique cell identifier and the Chinese test data sheets, or you are not getting EV Automotive cells. You are getting reject cells.

 

[RandyP]

Oops !

 

[Alkaline]

hrm.....

Cell ordering journey

Just placed my order and wanted to document it to potentially help any others looking to order in the future. I ordered from Minji Guan who works for Dongguan Billion Electronic Technology Co., Ltd. My order was 16 310 cells with 2 8s150a daly bms with bluetooth. The total total including...

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