EVE identifies Grade B cells using new marking Method [Reposting from General]

[vist]

When I am in contact with the sales representative at EVE, I get the answer that they do not sell Grade B cells to anyone at all, and cells that do not meet the requirements for Grade-A are recycled directly in the factory to be used again in the production of new cells.

 

[Alkaline]

Do we have our first re-lasered vendor?

Review of EVE 280K cells purchased from Shenzhen Oneier Technology Co.,Ltd

I needed qty 16 EVE 280K cells in a rush and my normal supplier was out of stock at their US warehouse. Searched on Alibaba and found Shenzhen Oneier Technology Co advertising Grade "A" Eve 280K cells with stock in US warehouse. I reached out and was contacted by Lucia Luo. She was responsive...

diysolarforum.com

 

[DSmartLife]

Yes, vendors have started to relaser, re-QRcode the Eve cells. Initially I thought B mark is going to help, but now this is dangerous for us. We will not know the original manufacturing date anymore. They can also now change models of cells like LF280N to LF280K and so on.

Some of the latest recoding is very very precise and we cannot identify easily. See this example below:
1. Original code from 2021.
2. Recoded cells (B mark removed) from 2022.

 

[Alkaline]

EVE is going to be forced to destroy failed cells, this is hurting there main business when fake sellers now will claim they have real cells undercutting eve themselves.

And they have no one to blame but themselves for this situation.

Other vendors actually drill pivots and pits to the qr code like REPT, you can not relazer them because the surface has become bumby and uneven. So FAKE rept cells have a QR code on the side.

 

[Rossman]

And they have no one to blame but themselves for this situation.

It seems ridiculous to be like "lol they brought this on themselves" when what EVE was doing was actually intended to HELP consumers.

Maybe the blame should go on the pieces of shit that re-laser? just saying.

 

[Alkaline]

EVE claims they re-cycle all failed cells you can message lampard Li on alibaba he will say the same thing, yet we keep seeing these grade B? How can both be true?

I think they are going to have to go further than just putting a B on the qr code they, are going to have to mar up, divit and pit the heck out of the square area where the qr code is supposed to be so even if you do re-laser it, it will be impossible to get smooth.

I suppose you could resurface it, but then you would have an obvious low spot.

 

[lfpinside]

These guys spent a lot of energy on developing new methods to make fake QR. Still not perfect though.

 

[burgerking]

Yes, vendors have started to relaser, re-QRcode the Eve cells. Initially I thought B mark is going to help, but now this is dangerous for us. We will not know the original manufacturing date anymore. They can also now change models of cells like LF280N to LF280K and so on.

Some of the latest recoding is very very precise and we cannot identify easily. See this example below:
1. Original code from 2021.
2. Recoded cells (B mark removed) from 2022.

So you are saying that Original QR Codes are tighter with no spaces between
and the fakes have gaps...
SIGH! My cells have gaps.



What about CATL? Them good?

 

[lfpinside]

Yes, vendors have started to relaser, re-QRcode the Eve cells. Initially I thought B mark is going to help, but now this is dangerous for us. We will not know the original manufacturing date anymore. They can also now change models of cells like LF280N to LF280K and so on.

Some of the latest recoding is very very precise and we cannot identify easily. See this example below:
1. Original code from 2021.
2. Recoded cells (B mark removed) from 2022.

B mark only destroyed Barcode, but most letters are still available. Especially production date code is intact.

Here to decode B mark cells' production date.

EVE B Mark LiFePO4 Cell QR Decoder (Beta) : GobelPower.com

GobelPower.com : EVE B Mark LiFePO4 Cell QR Decoder (Beta) - China Lithium Battery Distributor and manufacturer, Offers LiFePO4 Battery, 18650 Battery, 12V/24V/48V/72V Rechargable Lithium Battery for Home Solar Energy Storage, Electric Bikes, Scooters, Forklifts, Sweepers, Mowers and Boats.

www.gobelpower.com

 

[RandyP]

If you buy auctioned off reject cells in the resellers market place, you get what you pay for. Buy cells directly from EVE. Get test data sheets. Insure QR codes are intact and authentic.

 

[Delta Sierra]

I believe this is a step in the right direction and good on EVE for adopting the B strategy. Yes you will have the shady sellers deceiving their customers just like before but that is always going to happen.

Thing is, if you see a qr code that looks real which suggests date if mfr after march 22 WITHOUT the B one will have to double question it. I prefer it this way now so if I see the B, most likely it is a legit EVE cell and seller can't play it off as an EV certified one and I can get a good price.

 

[augiedoggy]

Its been my understanding that theres no official grading system standard but the most of the cells sold for solar or diy use are in fact "B" grade because they did not pass the testing to be used in the automotive industry "Off grid garage " just did a video more or less explaining they are instead sold at a discount or auctioned off to folks who resell them on places like aliexpress... Granted they typically still test at full capacity and work well for storage use unless they are really poor quality, used or improperly stored/maintained.. I could be wrong as thats just what ive read and what things ive seen have indicated but it makes total sense.

 

[Just John]

Its been my understanding that theres no official grading system standard but the most of the cells sold for solar or diy use are in fact "B" grade because they did not pass the testing to be used in the automotive industry "Off grid garage " just did a video more or less explaining they are instead sold at a discount or auctioned off to folks who resell them on places like aliexpress... Granted they typically still test at full capacity and work well for storage use unless they are really poor quality, used or improperly stored/maintained.. I could be wrong as thats just what ive read and what things ive seen have indicated but it makes total sense.

Be careful about using random people from the internet as a source of truth, even if they have a popular YouTube channel. Andy is very entertaining, but has no more knowledge of what EVE and CATL do than anyone else. The only "grade Automotive" cells come with test results from EVE. They cost more. If it has no test results, then the quality of the cell can be extremely random, from "as good as grade A" to obviously used until end of life, and then resold as "brand new grade A". Testing at full capacity for grey market cells is rare, but not unheard of.

 

[Alkaline]

I also suggest looking at both the WH and AH test when evaluating cells, they should pass both. But to be safe, buy from your local country so you have the option to return if something doesn't meet expectation. There are no returns to china.

 

[augiedoggy]

Be careful about using random people from the internet as a source of truth, even if they have a popular YouTube channel. Andy is very entertaining, but has no more knowledge of what EVE and CATL do than anyone else. The only "grade Automotive" cells come with test results from EVE. They cost more. If it has no test results, then the quality of the cell can be extremely random, from "as good as grade A" to obviously used until end of life, and then resold as "brand new grade A". Testing at full capacity for grey market cells is rare, but not unheard of.

I guess im confused by this because I understand what was said by many in this thread coincides with what Andy has said and what you are saying to be more or less the same thing. My understanding was Andy was explaining what he had learned from his supplier.. I realize some sellers like sunfun kits do sell automotive grade cells at a premium but most of what are sold for storage would be grade B since they failed to meet the automotive grade status.. I imagine some manufacturers likely do it differently as they may not sell to the automotive market. But many would have some OEM application they are mainly manufacturing them for and they would be selling everything that those OEMs reject at auction or to smaller resellers.

I guess we will see going forward how many eve Cells are sold at places like docan where I bought mine are sold with the "A" grade sticker vs "B". Of course the fact that so many are selling sub par, used and old cells doesnt help keep things straight.

As a field engineer I see this exact same process with print heads... sellers like seiko, epson, konica minolta, and ricoh all do this with their printheads the heads are tested after manufacturing and the heads that done meet the testing criteria are sold off as grade b or used in cheaper versions of printers while the A grade are sold at a premium. for example the A grade head is 4 grand or more to officially licensed suppliers (aka printer manufacturers) but the b grade can be found all over the internet from multiple suppliers for around $1200 and of course none of these seller mention this.
From what ive been told and read this type of system is also common with thing like CPUs and such where they can turn down the speed or functionality of the products that dont meet the highest test results.

 

[Alkaline]

Just buy from whoever you can return locally with in your country is the safest bet. I don't think going buy grade A or grade B is good enough, the seller needs to stand behind what they sell.

 

[Just John]

I guess im confused by this because I understand what was said by many in this thread coincides with what Andy has said and what you are saying to be more or less the same thing. My understanding was Andy was explaining what he had learned from his supplier.. I realize some sellers like sunfun kits do sell automotive grade cells at a premium but most of what are sold for storage would be grade B since they failed to meet the automotive grade status.. I imagine some manufacturers likely do it differently as they may not sell to the automotive market. But many would have some OEM application they are mainly manufacturing them for and they would be selling everything that those OEMs reject at auction or to smaller resellers.

I guess we will see going forward how many eve Cells are sold at places like docan where I bought mine are sold with the "A" grade sticker vs "B". Of course the fact that so many are selling sub par, used and old cells doesnt help keep things straight.

As a field engineer I see this exact same process with print heads... sellers like seiko, epson, konica minolta, and ricoh all do this with their printheads the heads are tested after manufacturing and the heads that done meet the testing criteria are sold off as grade b or used in cheaper versions of printers while the A grade are sold at a premium. for example the A grade head is 4 grand or more to officially licensed suppliers (aka printer manufacturers) but the b grade can be found all over the internet from multiple suppliers for around $1200 and of course none of these seller mention this.
From what ive been told and read this type of system is also common with thing like CPUs and such where they can turn down the speed or functionality of the products that dont meet the highest test results.

You will find that every seller has "grade A brand new" cells for sale.
Very, very, few actually do (automotive grade) and those that do send you the test reports from EVE.

Do you need automotive grade for solar storage? No. However as I pointed out, what you actually receive is a real crapshoot. If you get decent bulk grade cells (not used and already end of life capacity wise) and don't try to use them as high amp (either charge or discharge) you will be happy due to the price difference. Unfortunately, you don't have any clue why they failed. One of the steps is to X-Ray the cell to make sure that there are no sharp edges on the jelly roll that might cause an internal short. That scares me, although one would hope that EVE is ethical and won't sale dangerous cells.............. Maybe.

All of the true automotive grade that I've purchased (32 so far) have exceeded both watt hours and amp hour ratings. All of the cells I have received that were not automotive grade (16) tested below rated capacity. Some as low as 264AH (for a 280AH cell). After almost 3 years, the grade B cells still perform without significant degradation (so far, and I check). Which you should get depends on your budget and risk tolerance. I can afford the true automotive grade, so that's all I purchase now. Amy from Shenzen Luyuan is where I purchase mine.

Shenzhen Luyuan Technology Co., Ltd. - Lifepo4 battery, LTO battery

Shenzhen Luyuan Technology Co., Ltd., Experts in Manufacturing and Exporting Lifepo4 battery, LTO battery and 0 more Products.

szluyuan.en.alibaba.com

I have been extremely happy with the 304AH cells.

 

[augiedoggy]

You will find that every seller has "grade A brand new" cells for sale.
Very, very, few actually do (automotive grade) and those that do send you the test reports from EVE.

Do you need automotive grade for solar storage? No. However as I pointed out, what you actually receive is a real crapshoot. If you get decent bulk grade cells (not used and already end of life capacity wise) and don't try to use them as high amp (either charge or discharge) you will be happy due to the price difference. Unfortunately, you don't have any clue why they failed. One of the steps is to X-Ray the cell to make sure that there are no sharp edges on the jelly roll that might cause an internal short. That scares me, although one would hope that EVE is ethical and won't sale dangerous cells.............. Maybe.

All of the true automotive grade that I've purchased (32 so far) have exceeded both watt hours and amp hour ratings. All of the cells I have received that were not automotive grade (16) tested below rated capacity. Some as low as 264AH (for a 280AH cell). After almost 3 years, the grade B cells still perform without significant degradation (so far, and I check). Which you should get depends on your budget and risk tolerance. I can afford the true automotive grade, so that's all I purchase now. Amy from Shenzen Luyuan is where I purchase mine.

Shenzhen Luyuan Technology Co., Ltd. - Lifepo4 battery, LTO battery

Shenzhen Luyuan Technology Co., Ltd., Experts in Manufacturing and Exporting Lifepo4 battery, LTO battery and 0 more Products.

szluyuan.en.alibaba.com

I have been extremely happy with the 304AH cells.

I agree, thats basically my understanding of it as well.
From what ive been reading it seems though that the idea that so many already own non automotive grade cells they bought under the premise that they were A grade has struck such a nerve some folks are claiming blasfimy and you would think we were discussing religion here..

The cells I bought a docan work well for me... I expect they are not "A" grade but they are not bloated lower grade junk either... Now I am looking for cheap cells to build a 36v battery for a golf cart and am willing to experiment and find out just how bad those cheaper ali cells are.. the fact is the price difference between the two is close to what I paid for the cart.

 

[Alkaline]

I looked at some of Docans recent prices for there catl 302... I don't think its worth the savings for an extra $30.0/cell you can get true EV grade with report, albiet you'll have to wait 45-60 days for them to arrive.

we are talking $170 vs $200.

 

[augiedoggy]

I looked at some of Docans recent prices for there catl 302... I don't think its worth the savings for an extra $30.0/cell you can get true EV grade with report, albiet you'll have to wait 45-60 days for them to arrive.

we are talking $170 vs $200.

these are for a golf cart... im looking at 16 pcs of 105ah cells for 746 shipped from a "Top brand" rated seller... Docan doesnt appear to have USA stock of 105ah cells but if I bought thier smaller 100ah cells id be looking at $1144 ... thats more like a $400 difference unless im missing something? the cart isnt being used till spring so the wait time is not a concern.

EDIT# I found if I navigate differently I found eve c105ah cells for 52$ each or $880 plus tax and shipping... thats only about $200 difference and something I may consider except when I estimate shipping its another $376 with the only option shipped from china... back to $500+ difference

Plus, where is it stated docan is selling true EV grade cells? from recent reviews they arent even meeting stated capacity? my assumption is these are also auction purchased cells with perhaps a better screening process or possibly that A- grade ive read of..