EVE LF280k Vs 304

SolaroSsaurius

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Considering just "Grade A" cells (whatever that really means) from NKON or Luyuan, why choose one over the other?
(no horror stories, just facts, please, like # of cycles, costs, etc)

Thinking about a second battery bank (first being LF280k, still not assembled) for mobile application (campervan), where cells will be spring compressed..

Thanks for all your thoughts and inputs
 

rodrick

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i have 32 280k cell and no complaints there are posts about the 304 appears to be slightly bloated and the consensus is they are putting to much in the same size case, will this be a problem later who knows but look at cost per ah for each and ah required for your system and if the 280 are comparable I personally would us them from my experience with the 280 in my system
 

SolaroSsaurius

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Thanks for your input.
I really don't need 280ah with a second battery bank.
2x 24v 200(ish)ah would be enough
 

Alkaline

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i have 32 280k cell and no complaints there are posts about the 304 appears to be slightly bloated and the consensus is they are putting to much in the same size case, will this be a problem later who knows but look at cost per ah for each and ah required for your system and if the 280 are comparable I personally would us them from my experience with the 280 in my system

Ugh, what JOKE the exact opposite is TRUE! 280K barely meets the listed capacity, where the 304 have no issues and have the usually 103% of rated.

Where did you come up with such a statement despite the forum filled with the contrary!
 

rodrick

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Ugh, what JOKE the exact opposite is TRUE! 280K barely meets the listed capacity, where the 304 have no issues and have the usually 103% of rated.

Where did you come up with such a statement despite the forum filled with the contrary!
So there’s a problem with them barely meeting capacity if I order a 280AH cell and get 280 out of it that’s what
I wanted where’s the joke
there have been comments about 304s looking slightly bloated Will even talked about it in a video and he had people asking him about it
the consensus is the larger roll stuffed in the same size case might be giving them the look and they may be fine time will tell I just personally feel more comfortable sticking with the 280 and if I need more storage just built another battery
pushing things to the limit doesn’t do much for longevity in my experience
 

Alkaline

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Where are you getting this from?

Here I've been monitoring 280K for 3-4 months now:

LF280K will barely meet AH, but will exceed the WH, the 280K is a 280AH cell and is a 896WH cell, here are grade A results (with manufacturer test reports)

My Results 278.4 & 901.4 WH, Luyuan Test Report said I should be getting 289.4 AH on these Matched & Batched Cells Genuine grade A:
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/what-is-going-on-here-just-got-zke-40.49076/

shane_Uk with Luyuan Genuine matched & batch results 276 AH vs the 289 Ah on the sheet; did not show WH, but I suspect it would probably be around 900 or more:
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/opinions-welcome-for-newbie-lifepo4-battery.47310/

18650batterystore.com grade A results, a person named Dena M. Says 277.7 AH (did not show WH, but again I suspect it would be around 900ish maybe 901):
https://www.18650batterystore.com/products/eve-lf280k#looxReviews


Fogstar UK grade A EVE 280, Cajocars gets 280.5 AH & 907.5 WH EVE stated Capacity was supposed to be 293.9 AH…, but still first person with a 280K to actually break the 280 barrier…but just barely
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/just-bought-16-280ah-a-grade-from-fogstar.51027/page-3#post-662021

NKON grade A results by Delphinus 279.95 AH & 905 WH

So something is up, grade A 280K with manufacturing test report are having a hard time meeting the 280AH capacity which is very different form the original 280N and current 304, as these have NO problems meeting both AH and WH.


Grade B 280k:

Docan 280K results, very detailed thread by basecamp, but average 263 AH and 850WH
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/poor-docan-experience-resolved.48592/#post-618121


Docan 280K Results by Ce Ce, 265 WH and 860 WH, tested a few cells but this was the average:
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/disappointing-eve-280k-results.47555/


Docan 280K results by gonmag8 265 AH & 863.5 WH:
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/disappointing-eve-280k-results.47555/post-606579

Docan 280K by atti 270Ah & unknown WH:
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/eve-lf280k-capacity-test.49961/

These issues don't exist with the LF304, OR LF230 or the CATL 280, or REPT 280, these cells even grade B will for the most part meet capacity in AH and WH.

But specifically the 280K seems to have an issue, I used to think it was a certain date range, but now I see even cells made in October 2022 are acting the same way so EVE has made these cells this way.

I don't know if this is bad or not, but we have all come accustomed to judging cells mainly by AH so take the above as you will. I had 3 x 8s setups, I just sold them all but I was happiest with my Liyuan 280K grade A out of them all, and in the future I will probably go with grade A LF304.
 

rodrick

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We truly are not going to know what any of these cells will do over time, in 4 to 7 years we will know a lot more when the cycle counts start adding up but I don’t believe any of the cells are true ev grade a cells, including my 32 “grade a” 280Ah purchased from docan but internal resistance was consistent with documentation, voltages were all most identical no bulging nice and flat and seem to be close to Ah spec, my testing is not lab grade controlled environment by any means I’m looking more for consistency across the lot.
I do believe that cells that go over or under Ah ratings specs of buyers are non ev grade and that’s why we see this swing because that what they sell to us for grade “A”.
some think that there is a chemistry tweak in the k cell that may be a test hopefully giving more cycles above the 80% mark, hell who really knows we may have bought product equivalent to the Chrysler K car, but my guess is long before any of these give up the ghost we will be buying a flow or some other chemistry that will be a leap equivalent to Lifepo over fla
I think most cells will be 2-3% high or low of stated Ah in what they are calling grade A that they sell to our market and my hunch is Covid in china probley had more to do with the values some are reporting and some we’re pushing out marginal product or lower quality to meet demand.
Time will give us all clarity
 

SolaroSsaurius

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Where are you getting this from?

Here I've been monitoring 280K for 3-4 months now:

LF280K will barely meet AH, but will exceed the WH, the 280K is a 280AH cell and is a 896WH cell, here are grade A results (with manufacturer test reports)

My Results 278.4 & 901.4 WH, Luyuan Test Report said I should be getting 289.4 AH on these Matched & Batched Cells Genuine grade A:
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/what-is-going-on-here-just-got-zke-40.49076/

shane_Uk with Luyuan Genuine matched & batch results 276 AH vs the 289 Ah on the sheet; did not show WH, but I suspect it would probably be around 900 or more:
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/opinions-welcome-for-newbie-lifepo4-battery.47310/

18650batterystore.com grade A results, a person named Dena M. Says 277.7 AH (did not show WH, but again I suspect it would be around 900ish maybe 901):
https://www.18650batterystore.com/products/eve-lf280k#looxReviews


Fogstar UK grade A EVE 280, Cajocars gets 280.5 AH & 907.5 WH EVE stated Capacity was supposed to be 293.9 AH…, but still first person with a 280K to actually break the 280 barrier…but just barely
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/just-bought-16-280ah-a-grade-from-fogstar.51027/page-3#post-662021

NKON grade A results by Delphinus 279.95 AH & 905 WH

So something is up, grade A 280K with manufacturing test report are having a hard time meeting the 280AH capacity which is very different form the original 280N and current 304, as these have NO problems meeting both AH and WH.


Grade B 280k:

Docan 280K results, very detailed thread by basecamp, but average 263 AH and 850WH
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/poor-docan-experience-resolved.48592/#post-618121


Docan 280K Results by Ce Ce, 265 WH and 860 WH, tested a few cells but this was the average:
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/disappointing-eve-280k-results.47555/


Docan 280K results by gonmag8 265 AH & 863.5 WH:
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/disappointing-eve-280k-results.47555/post-606579

Docan 280K by atti 270Ah & unknown WH:
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/eve-lf280k-capacity-test.49961/

These issues don't exist with the LF304, OR LF230 or the CATL 280, or REPT 280, these cells even grade B will for the most part meet capacity in AH and WH.

But specifically the 280K seems to have an issue, I used to think it was a certain date range, but now I see even cells made in October 2022 are acting the same way so EVE has made these cells this way.

I don't know if this is bad or not, but we have all come accustomed to judging cells mainly by AH so take the above as you will. I had 3 x 8s setups, I just sold them all but I was happiest with my Liyuan 280K grade A out of them all, and in the future I will probably go with grade A LF304.
Thanks, @Alkaline , your response is appreciated as I know you've been tracking quite a few buyers. More food for thought...

I didn't though about the LF230, but as I'll have plenty of capacity with the new battery, maybe that could also be a possibility.

So now it's LF280k Vs 304 Vs LF230...
 

Alkaline

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Messages
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We truly are not going to know what any of these cells will do over time, in 4 to 7 years we will know a lot more when the cycle counts start adding up but I don’t believe any of the cells are true ev grade a cells, including my 32 “grade a” 280Ah purchased from docan but internal resistance was consistent with documentation, voltages were all most identical no bulging nice and flat and seem to be close to Ah spec, my testing is not lab grade controlled environment by any means I’m looking more for consistency across the lot.
I do believe that cells that go over or under Ah ratings specs of buyers are non ev grade and that’s why we see this swing because that what they sell to us for grade “A”.
some think that there is a chemistry tweak in the k cell that may be a test hopefully giving more cycles above the 80% mark, hell who really knows we may have bought product equivalent to the Chrysler K car, but my guess is long before any of these give up the ghost we will be buying a flow or some other chemistry that will be a leap equivalent to Lifepo over fla
I think most cells will be 2-3% high or low of stated Ah in what they are calling grade A that they sell to our market and my hunch is Covid in china probley had more to do with the values some are reporting and some we’re pushing out marginal product or lower quality to meet demand.
Time will give us all clarity
Grade A comes with a manufacturer test report that lists each cell and its testing data. The list above has vendors that provide it. If you judge cells by AH capacity than avoid 280K Grade A or B. Docan like many of the Ali sellers sell grade B cells, which depending on the brand can be good value like there catl 280 which are testing in 295 ish zone.

BUT you went around saying LF304 is bloated and not meeting capacity while the 280K is... So either you made that up or were severely misinformed.
 

rodrick

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BUT you went around saying LF304 is bloated and not meeting capacity while the 280K is... So either you made that up or were severely misinformed.
I never said they didn’t meet capacity I did say some had received cells that appear to be slightly bloated my exact words! and will prouse mention it in one of his videos about this also and had inquiries about the appearance of some of the 304s and my concern was they were trying to put to much in the case and maybe a larger case might be better for a 304Ah battery
 

Alkaline

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Ok,

well FYI the 280K is not like there other cells.

Here are some good budget choices:

18650 has grade B REPT 280, tests well
Docan has grade B CATL 280, test well also
QSO has grade B Hithium 280, test well as well

These grade B will outperform grade A 280K in terms of AH.
 

rodrick

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thanks for the info because I’m looking to due 2 more 8s soon and l was looking at the rept cells at 18650 just a couple of days ago comparing prices with docan
 

Alkaline

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They come out to the same 18650 doesn't include shipping docan has free shipping all said and done you may be $10.00 more.
 

rodrick

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They come out to the same 18650 doesn't include shipping docan has free shipping all said and done you may be $10.00 more.
Yea that’s why I went with docan before it’s all inclusive by the way im look to do solar assistant what’s you take on it is it worth doing
 

houseofancients

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I never said they didn’t meet capacity I did say some had received cells that appear to be slightly bloated my exact words! and will prouse mention it in one of his videos about this also and had inquiries about the appearance of some of the 304s and my concern was they were trying to put to much in the case and maybe a larger case might be better for a 304Ah battery
agree with alkaline, skip on the 280's and go for the 304's.

to add the "6000 cycle" tests of the 280k's to the 3000 cycles of the 304's is compairing apples to pears.
6000 cycle test is done at .5C , while 3000 at 1c
im starting to think the 280k are in reality downrated 304's
 

kathnh

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I'm pretty happy so far with my Grade B LF304 purchase from 18650. All the cells have tested out at 315 Ah on my little fan tester with its 20A max load. Even the Wh capacity seems pretty good despite voltage drops in my connections and in the electronic load. Testing was done on individual cells. I'll be doing a high capacity test once the battery is built and hooked up to a 2000W inverter.
 

Alkaline

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I think 18650 is basically going to own the North American market same price as Ali Sellers but no wait, that and they are marking the cells with capacity so no surprises.
 

Ahjwinth

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I have purchased 64x LF280K in October, they arrived just before Christmas and currently testing all the cells. So far we have tested 23 cells. Charge to 3.65. Discharge to 2.70 volt With 40a. The best cell is 280ah (1) and the worst cell 250ah, the others are between 260 and 270ah On average. When all cells are tested I will post the Full results but this will take some time.
All the cells look good, QR codes are valid and no dents or damage. The sides are nice and flat, no signs of any swollen cells.
The plan is to take the 8 worst cells and install these in my camper and replace them with 8 other cells to that my 4 banks of battery average around 260-270 ah.
 

SolaroSsaurius

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I have purchased 64x LF280K in October, they arrived just before Christmas and currently testing all the cells. So far we have tested 23 cells. Charge to 3.65. Discharge to 2.70 volt With 40a. The best cell is 280ah (1) and the worst cell 250ah, the others are between 260 and 270ah On average. When all cells are tested I will post the Full results but this will take some time.
All the cells look good, QR codes are valid and no dents or damage. The sides are nice and flat, no signs of any swollen cells.
The plan is to take the 8 worst cells and install these in my camper and replace them with 8 other cells to that my 4 banks of battery average around 260-270 ah.
Thanks for reporting.
Were those A Grade (dual bolt terminal) or advertised as such?
Where were they bought from?
Thanks in advance!
 
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