EVE or LISHEN

[juanmijm]

the two pdf that dongguan Huanhuan sent me.

 

[Ampster]

To be clear, i would not use Donguan Huanhuan. I would find another vendor with a better reputation. I do not believe the CATL cells are new. They are either used or Grade B with lower capacity. Go with Lishen and a trusted supplier.

 

[juanmijm]

I did not think to buy there, I am only giving the information I have about the supposed 300ah cells in that company, because I have not seen another that offers them, to try to clarify what cells they really are.

 

[Ampster]

CATL has a good reputation. Six months ago I tried to buy some. That is when I found out there was not a reliable grey market for them. Things may have changed.

 

[charlesrg]

Yes, my above comment was about Dongguan Huanhuan. I have only seen two datapoints, but both have been negative.

Is Xuba also offering to sell you 300Ah CATL cells?

Yes the offer was from Xuba (szxuba.en.alibaba.com) about $84 each plus shipping.

@Dzl I saw the post on Dongguan and didn't bother to get a quote with them after I saw the post with damaged batteries.

 

[charlesrg]

Looks like Deligreen also has Catl 300. I think that is a good option. My expectation is at 280ah so the 300ah should come closer to my expectations.

 

[Ampster]

Yes the offer was from Xuba (szxuba.en.alibaba.com) about $84 each plus shipping.

CATL is a respected manufacturer who reportedly is supplying LFP cells for Tesla Model 3s made in China. They may be grey market cells that that do not pass the quality expected by Tesla. They could be well suited for energy storage.
NOTE
In the space of 6 hours I have done a complete 180 degree turn about these cells if they are being sold by reputable sellers like Xuba and Deligreen.

 

[charlesrg]

I’m waiting to confirm this are Grade A cells, price offered so far is $102 per cell.

 

[Ampster]

price offered so far is $102 per cell.

Earlier you said $84. Is the above a different vendor or a delivered price?

 

[charlesrg]

Earlier you said $84. Is the above a different vendor or a delivered price?

That was Xuba. Deli green is $102

 

[DJSmiley]

It seems the EVE's are hard to get, most don't have them in stock.
For the Lishen cells, this might also happen. Basen did tell me they have Lishen in stock.
Amy (Luyuan) didn't have EVE and offered CATL also as replacement. Amy said they are Grade A.

In this case, I've been quoted $86 for the CATL 271Ah cells.

The CATL cells don't have threads in the cells.. Amy said they will drill the holes. That might be an important topic for most DIY builds since most people don't have laser welding equipment. (unlike a big EV manufacturer)
Also on the CATL 300Ah datasheet I don't see any mentioning of a M6 (or whatever) thread

CATL has no thread when it comes out from the manufacturer. We need to drill holes. Its holes will be the same as EVE's

She also told they are currently capacity testing these.

the two pdf that dongguan Huanhuan sent me.

That PDF looks somewhat strange to me. As said by @Dzl I haven't seen cells over 280Ah with those dimensions.
Also, if you look into the PDF properties the PDF title is 280Ah. This might be an accident, but it also might be someone who just replaced 280 with 300 in the datasheet and forgot to update the title...



The other posted CATL datasheet does look more genuine to me

 

[Steve_S]

CATL is a respected manufacturer who reportedly is supplying LFP cells for Tesla Model 3s made in China. They may be grey market cells that that do not pass the quality expected by Tesla. They could be well suited for energy storage.
NOTE
In the space of 6 hours I have done a complete 180 degree turn about these cells if they are being sold by reputable sellers like Xuba and Deligreen.

CTP (Cell to Pack) will never goto Grey Market or be available for folks like us.
CATL makes Cylindrical, prismatic, pouch formats as well. They are using CTP for Tesla.

 

[charlesrg]

@DJSmiley thank you for the heads up about the threads. That’s a concern, I haven’t seen welding for such heavy bus. But skeptical as most welds are on thin sheets.
This are the pics I’ve got from Selina(Xuba). I’ve to research if welding is an option or is there another option. Not sure how deep the poles go to tap a thread on them.

Selina says the capacity is at least 305ah. If she can guarantee that and have a way to thread them I will go with the offer.

 

[DJSmiley]

Welding for battery cells is usually done in 2 ways:

Spotwelding: can be done DIY, you can get spot welders prebuild or build yourself. They are mainly used to spotweld nickel plated strips to eg 18650 cells

For these bigger cells, a thin nickel strip won't work (unless you're only pulling a few amps), so you have to get to the heavier stuff.
You can drill a hole and tap a M6 thread in it. Assuming they are identical to the EVEs, you should be good to go by drilling 6mm deep, but that remains a risk, unless someone is willing to test how deep they can go before damaging the cell.
Also, since the terminals are aluminium, everything counts. Manually drilling and tapping usually isn't the best way, easy to go slightly off, making the hole a little wider, thus less thread and even higher chances of stripping the threads. Highly would recommended a bench drill (Or whatever that's called in English) to make sure you're drilling exactly straight.

Another option is laser welding. With this you can get any terminal on it, but the equipment is way out of DIY.

Personally, unless the seller is willing to add terminals/studs or make a thread I would skip them.

 

[charlesrg]

Welding for battery cells is usually done in 2 ways:

Spotwelding: can be done DIY, you can get spot welders prebuild or build yourself. They are mainly used to spotweld nickel plated strips to eg 18650 cells

For these bigger cells, a thin nickel strip won't work (unless you're only pulling a few amps), so you have to get to the heavier stuff.
You can drill a hole and tap a M6 thread in it. Assuming they are identical to the EVEs, you should be good to go by drilling 6mm deep, but that remains a risk, unless someone is willing to test how deep they can go before damaging the cell.
Also, since the terminals are aluminium, everything counts. Manually drilling and tapping usually isn't the best way, easy to go slightly off, making the hole a little wider, thus less thread and even higher chances of stripping the threads. Highly would recommended a bench drill (Or whatever that's called in English) to make sure you're drilling exactly straight.

Another option is laser welding. With this you can get any terminal on it, but the equipment is way out of DIY.

Personally, unless the seller is willing to add terminals/studs or make a thread I would skip them.

Did the video show them laser etching and the guy has no eye protection. That’s crazy.

yep I don’t think spot welding would work for 200amps bus bars.
Agree no reason to go through the risk, they should be able to drill and tap before shipping.

 

[charlesrg]

So far deligreen gave two prices: $102 for grade B and $182 for grade A.
I’m going to try to get spec sheets. I don’t need over 1C discharge , my peak should be around 0.5C
I also checked if Xuba (Selina) can get it threaded, their price is better and they guaranteed capacity however said it was grade A which sounds over promising.
If I can get 3000 cycles at 80% I will be happy.
Should be able to get better batteries for same price in 10 years.

 

[Ampster]

CTP (Cell to Pack) will never goto Grey Market or be available for folks like us.

I assume the process of formation and matching is the same with every manufacturer. Where does CATL send the cells that are not up to the standards of Tesla to put in their packs?

 

[Pyrofx]

Amy sent me quote on catl batts. 272s. Said they will be cap tested nextweek.

 

[Steve_S]

I assume the process of formation and matching is the same with every manufacturer. Where does CATL send the cells that are not up to the standards of Tesla to put in their packs?

From what I understand, the CTP Packs are recycled into the system if not up to spec. It's not just any ol LFP or standard chemistry. CATL is not very open about much in general terms. It's just info I gleaned from the various tradies & EV sites that I lurk about in.

 

[Ampster]

From what I understand, the CTP Packs are recycled into the system if not up to spec.

I can see lower spec cells going into lighting packs or other ESS uses. It may be a more profitable way for them to recover costs.