Figure out what you need before you buy damn it.

[FilterGuy]

[RANT MODE ON]

I can understand when people don't understand the terminology. I can understand when people don't understand the technology. I can understand when people ask questions that show they are clueless about solar & batteries. I would even say I enjoy helping these people learn. We were all ignorant about solar and batteries at one point in time and we owe it to others that we have learned and now understand some of it.

What I am getting tired of are posts that say something like "I bought all this stuff.... how does it go together"? This is just plain crazy behavior. You don't have to understand anything about solar or batteries to know this is a bad idea.... yet we see posts like this almost every day. It is like buying a whole bunch of lumber and then asking how to build a house out of it before you know how big the house needs to be or even if it will be built out of wood.

If you don't have a full breakdown of the energy needs and a complete design that meets those needs.... don't start buying stuff!!!

The moment you start buying stuff you are limiting your options. Furthermore, without a full design, you aren't even sure the components will work together let alone do what you need!!! Then you make a post wanting to know how to make it all work.

Every time I see this I want to respond with "You are a blithering idiot.... you are too dumb to be working with electricity"... but I hold my tongue and often help them out anyway.

This post is my way of blowing off steam without attacking an individual.

OK.... I feel better now.

[RANT MODE OFF]

 

[schmism]

to be fair, Will kinda built his youtube channel on "hey this is super easy, buy this stuff and with a few connections it works!"

 

[Dzl]

Totally agree / share this rant. I cant understand it with less technical or less expensive topics but i really truly can't understand when people are dropping hundreds to thousands of dollars on stuff they don't understand and have no idea if it'll meet their needs or fit together (and in more than one case I can remember, beginning to buy before even deciding on system voltage, in some cases not even components compatible with the same voltages)

I think its in part the instant-consumer-gratification culture and Amazon-ification of everything. Buy first, understand what you are buying later or never, and more and more it all has to come from Amazon or be discovered through youtube reviews (and not coincidentally the latter is largely monetized through links to the former..). I find buying shit as satisfying as the next hopelessly indoctrinated consumer, and I find amazon as convenient as the next guy, but I just can't fathom how many people drop a bunch of money with so little thought. And the fact that they are coming here to ask after does suggest that they have some idea there is a technical side to system design that they must think through, they just do it bass ackwards

 

[sunshine_eggo]

With you 1000%. I ranted vicariously through you.

 

[Dzl]

There is also the slightly related hard to fathom scenario that comes up in the DIY battery section on occasion where someone buys the from some new/off-brand drop in replacement company, or some unknown grey market reseller of raw cells, and then asks AFTER purchas,. "Has anyone heard of/bought from these guys? Are they trustworthy?"

More rare than the I bought XYZ does it make sense and will it work together, but probably even more unfathomable to me, that you would start your vetting of a company you just gave your money to after giving them your money..

 

[Pierre]

[RANT MODE ON]

I can understand when people don't understand the terminology. I can understand when people don't understand the technology. I can understand when people ask questions that show they are clueless about solar & batteries. I would even say I enjoy helping these people learn. We were all ignorant about solar and batteries at one point in time and we owe it to others that we have learned and now understand some of it.

What I am getting tired of are posts that say something like "I bought all this stuff.... how does it go together"? This is just plain crazy behavior. You don't have to understand anything about solar or batteries to know this is a bad idea.... yet we see posts like this almost every day. It is like buying a whole bunch of lumber and then asking how to build a house out of it before you know how big the house needs to be or even if it will be built out of wood.

If you don't have a full breakdown of the energy needs and a complete design that meets those needs.... don't start buying stuff!!!

The moment you start buying stuff you are limiting your options. Furthermore, without a full design, you aren't even sure the components will work together let alone do what you need!!! Then you make a post wanting to know how to make it all work.

Every time I see this I want to respond with "You are a blithering idiot.... you are too dumb to be working with electricity"... but I hold my tung and often help them out anyway.

This post is my way of blowing off steam without attacking an individual.

OK.... I feel better now.

[RANT MODE OFF]

I commiserate with you. Fully agree.

 

[Browneye]

That would be 'tongue'...not 'tung'. ?

A lot of people buy stuff if they think it's a good deal. My son's ex-wife was a shop-a-holic - if it was on sale or a good deal she bought it whether she needed it or not. At one point you couldn't walk through the garage, then they got warehouse shelving to try to sort some of it. I cleared a path at one point so you could get through, and there were shopping bags of stuff sitting with the receipt in them that had never even been opened or brought in. I was sorting some bathroom stuff and set it inside the door, later asked where she wanted the items - "I wanted them in the garage where they were!"

Oh dear. ?

I guess there's a reason or two why she's an ex. LOL

 

[Rednecktek]

Or at least have an idea of what you'd like to do with your system. If you're just buying parts because you want to practice and play around with it, then that's fine as long as you understand that everything you have is now expendable!

The idea of "I want to build a system with $X budget and see what it can do" is also perfectly acceptable, as long as you have accepted that the answer to that question could turn out to be Jack Squat.

What always bothered me most is the "I want a system to run a couple lights and a TV" so they start with a Sol-Ark 12KW inverter and 50 375w panels and a dozen batteries. I call it the Apple Mentality, Most Expensive = Best!

 

[NwCali]

Meh, I have money to burn, no, really, I do. I keep my house warm via burning money...

Seriously though I hope people who buy things that end up not using are able to sell them to those who can...

 

[tim0shel]

100000% agree!!!

 

[Steve_S]

Totally ON BOARD with this !
Took it to another end though... I see a pst that starts of with "I Bought this, that and the other things," how do I put it together... I skip & move on as that is a Rabbit Hole 80% of the time and anyone helping tends to become a target. Also if I see the words "Renogy" I ignore it outright. Again far too many times down that rabbit hole. Then of course there is always the "But I have 500W of Panel, I should be able to charge 250AH Battery & Run my (place/cabin/whatever)". Just try to explain why this won't work and you get called names....

I can't count how many times I have said to "Come up with a Plan, verify/check it and stick to it..." No Plan = Planned Failure and for some could even result in Divorce !

 

[acdoctor]

“No Plan = Planned Failure” I like that quote.
About 12 years ago I looked into off grid whole house solar. When I say I looked I got myself educated in solar ( books, magazine articles internet). Crunched all the numbers and decided it was too expensive and no real pay back.
About 6 years went by and I would hear that solar prices were really low now so I looked into it aging and finally decided to jump in. I knew that it was a break even deal as long as none of the components failed prematurely. So I spent my money with a company I already new that makes quality products Schneider. I bought Solar world panels because of the video of a pickup driving over one. Batteries were tough one. I went with Roles L16 based on pricing and company research.
I have 2 years high school electronics, 2 years military communication, 3 years of a engineering degree, 4 years in residential electrical, 2 years plant electrical maintenance, 20 years in heating and air. I built my house from the ground up. And I didn’t jump in with both feet with out LOTS OF PLANNING.
I am shocked most days reading on here. My favorite one was “ Bought Solar last night. Now I need to figure out how to put it together.”

 

[vejeriego]

That would be 'tongue'...not 'tung'. ?

No, I think @FilterGuy was correct... he'd bitten off the other bit ?

 

[gfmucci]

Folks have different ways of learning and trying new things. Some like to be "hands on" from the beginning - learn by doing - try it and ask questions later. Sure, they will make mistakes, trial and error costs more money, they may get frustrated. But not everyone implements new stuff perfectly as some would like.

I've run into know-it-all critics of my method of implementing a short wave antenna system on forums. They criticize, get frustrated with, and mock anyone who doesn't learn however the heck they learned. That is as narrow minded on their part as my methods are stupid from their perspective.

 

[schmism]

Folks have different ways of learning and trying new things.

All I hear is, people want to not have to be responsible for their actions, want other people to solve all their problems, and do all the work for them. Which is all things that have become somehow normalized in todays socieity.

 

[MichaelK]

I have to start learning not to hold my tongue (tung) and just say "throw it all away and start over, because you bought all the wrong stuff".

 

[Rednecktek]

Folks have different ways of learning and trying new things. Some like to be "hands on" from the beginning - learn by doing - try it and ask questions later

Oh yeah, I'm sure (hoping) I'm not the only one who bought a Harbor Freight Fisher Price My First solar kit and grew from there.

Of course not finding out about this forum for many years After I started playing gives me just enough cover to duck behind when I ask a stupid question. Back when I started playing with this stuff, Renology was "The Enthusiast Brand" of choice and I was looking forward to being able to afford it some day...

Still, I did the napkin math before I started with what info I could, and learned later what reality was like, and I was willing to eat the cost of "Tuition" as I learned. Everything I have bought over the years has been used at least for a little while until I learned better and upgraded or it died and was replaced. Finding out that the math doesn't equal "What-You'll-Actually-See" which I'm reminded doesn't equal reality. So much spent on batteries...

The people who haven't even done the napkin math or want to buy a bunch of stuff not having any idea why they're buying it are frustrating as hell. Hands-On learner? Fine, be willing to throw everything you just bought away, so go for the cheapest options so you don't feel bad about chucking it later. Found the forums before you started? Ask lots of questions, people here are pretty willing to help and teach. Have more money than sense? Just hire a pro.

 

[HRTKD]

I spent two months planning and designing before I got to the point I was ready to buy components. I watched every video Will published and read tons of posts here. I was fortunate that I came here. Otherwise I would have ended up with the Renogy crap that will recommends. Sure Renogy is easy on the budget, but it's not high quality, some devices have significant limitations and customer support has been quite bad. Will's continuing inclusion of Renogy in his plans makes it so that the newbies think that Renogy is good stuff.

The energy audit is critical to a successful implementation. I'm so thankful that it was suggested to me early on.

 

[Jred]

I spent two months planning and designing before I got to the point I was ready to buy components. I watched every video Will published and read tons of posts here. I was fortunate that I came here. Otherwise I would have ended up with the Renogy crap that will recommends. Sure Renogy is easy on the budget, but it's not high quality, some devices have significant limitations and customer support has been quite bad. Will's continuing inclusion of Renogy in his plans makes it so that the newbies think that Renogy is good stuff.

The energy audit is critical to a successful implementation. I'm so thankful that it was suggested to me early on.

I disagree. I have several Renogy components that have performed flawlessly. What specific issues have you had?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I disagree. I have several Renogy components that have performed flawlessly. What specific issues have you had?

Good for you. Search this site.

Easy to find people reporting problems with Renogy components. In most cases, dealing with customer service for warranty/troubleshooting demonstrates challenges with a language barrier and frequent dismissal of user concerns (nothing wrong, not our problem).

Generally speaking Renogy is marked-up cheap Chinese stuff with inconsistent customer support.