Finesse or Brute force solar?

[Mattb4]

A finesse Off grid setup meant precisely knowing your loads to the last Watt-hour. It meant knowing how much your panels could deliver on a good day or bad, it also meant sizing your electrical needs to the bare minimum by seeking out the most efficient appliance or using an alternative power source such as propane. For most early Off gridders this was their only choice. They were forced into a lot of compromises and watching what they ran like a hawk. Some of this was the high costs involved with setting up a small Off grid household. Panels were dollars a Watt and good quality lead acid storage batteries were big bucks. Selection of components were few and far between.

However, with solar panels being pennies a watt, components everywhere, and LiFeP04 batteries prices that are in many cases cheaper than equal capacity LA batteries, a new strategy for Off grid is feasible. Brute force Solar. What is Brute force solar? Quite simply it is design and build your system so that if you want to power something with your PV generation you simply add more panels, a larger inverter (or parallel/stack inverters) and a honking large battery bank with many days of capacity.

Want a full size electrical refrigerator instead of making do with repurposed RV micro frig? Brute force your solar. Put up another Array or 3. Build a bigger battery bank. Make sure your inverter can not only run it without effort but your entire PV setup, if needed, could run dozens of them. Anytime you find that a sacrifice might be required to simply run something more brute force solar should be applied.

Yes your PV potential will vastly exceed your daily needs most anytime the sun shines. Some may feel this is wasteful but it really solves a lot of problems.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Overkill is underrated.

 

[houseofancients]

Brute force..
There is no such thing as too much power

 

[42OhmsPA]

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I expect that my future dwelling might exceed the 10kW peak (mostly the power part), 30kWh/day design specs of my system. If that's the case, I plan to supplement with grid tie solar piggy-backed onto the quattros with opportunistic power use from 10a-2p.

 

[Rednecktek]

Brute force power means you get power in winter.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Around here it's both, with the same system.

Brute force most of the summer and some of the shoulder seasons, becoming finesse and ultimately supplement with a fuel generator in dead of winter, then back again.

 

[alcook62]

Brute force power means you get power in winter.

Absolutely! Brute force means being able to run the heat pump AND put 60+ amps of love into the batteries simultaneously.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Around here it's both, with the same system.

Brute force most of the summer and some of the shoulder seasons, becoming finesse and ultimately supplement with a fuel generator in dead of winter, then back again.

Here in Ohio I'd need some ridiculous amount of panels to cover winter needs, which would result in 1) way more power available in the summer than I could possibly use, even if I ran heat strips AND AC at the same time as every single appliance and 2) I'd get the "NO SOLAR FARMS" people picketing at my front doostep.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Here in Ohio I'd need some ridiculous amount of panels to cover winter needs, which would result in 1) way more power available in the summer than I could possibly use, even if I ran heat strips AND AC at the same time as every single appliance and 2) I'd get the "NO SOLAR FARMS" people picketing at my front doostep.

Exactly.

My 1600w array is currently harvesting 73w. This will go on for weeks. A 10x bigger array would get me 730w, still not enough to cover needs + charge batteries, especially in the shorter winter days.

There's a reason so many people supplement with vit D around here.

 

[mactech]

Exactly.

My 1600w array is currently harvesting 73w. This will go on for weeks. A 10x bigger array would get me 730w, still not enough to cover needs + charge batteries, especially in the shorter winter days.

There's a reason so many people supplement with vit D around here.

My two arrays totaling 2800 watts is showing 84w of solar at the moment. Clouds are especially thick over Ohio today and the heating pads are on too.

I turned off the Intel Mac, it sucks 145w doing much of nothing while the M3 Mac uses ~25w. I only power my office, observatory and solar shed, so the grid isn't too far away when/if I need it.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

My two arrays totaling 2800 watts is showing 84w of solar at the moment. Clouds are especially thick over Ohio today and the heating pads are on too.

I turned off the Intel Mac, it sucks 145w doing much of nothing while the M3 Mac uses ~25w. I only power my office, observatory and solar shed, so the grid isn't too far away when/if I need it.

Please elaborate.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Please elaborate.

He's watching you

 

[mactech]

Please elaborate.

I am a very amateurish astrophotographer. https://www.flickr.com/photos/188927063@N06/

My 1st solar system, a 24v 7.5kwh battery powers the equatorial mount, 3 telescopes, 3 cooled astro-cameras, dew heaters for lens, a few Raspberry Pi4 and 5s, when there are clear skies, which lately isn't too often. It serves as a backup to my newer 48v Victron, powers the heating pads, which are on at this moment cause it's below 42F.

 

[Mattb4]

Exactly.

My 1600w array is currently harvesting 73w. This will go on for weeks. A 10x bigger array would get me 730w, still not enough to cover needs + charge batteries, especially in the shorter winter days.

There's a reason so many people supplement with vit D around here.

But a 10-10X arrays would give you 7.3kW. Think of it.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I am a very amateurish astrophotographer. https://www.flickr.com/photos/188927063@N06/

My 1st solar system, a 24v 7.5kwh battery powers the equatorial mount, 3 telescopes, 3 cooled astro-cameras, dew heaters for lens, a few Raspberry Pi4 and 5s, when there are clear skies, which lately isn't too often. It serves as a backup to my newer 48v Victron, powers the heating pads, which are on at this moment cause it's below 42F.

Fantastic! Part of our reason for choosing the area in ENE AZ is due to the tolerable light pollution (Bortle class 2). Pretty dirty at the horizon towards nearby small towns, but glorious overhead view of the Milky Way.

I have very limited equipment at this time. I've been a neophyte for decades at this point with intense periods of focus and effort followed by years of neglect in between. Hoping to have this as a primary hobby when we retire up there.

 

[mactech]

Fantastic! Part of our reason for choosing the area in ENE AZ is due to the tolerable light pollution (Bortle class 2). Pretty dirty at the horizon towards nearby small towns, but glorious overhead view of the Milky Way.

I have very limited equipment at this time. I've been a neophyte for decades at this point with intense periods of focus and effort followed by years of neglect in between. Hoping to have this as a primary hobby when we retire up there.

Is there an emoji for huge envy?

My dream location is probably down the street from you.

 

[42OhmsPA]

But a 10-10X arrays would give you 7.3kW. Think of it.

No grass and weeds to mow....

 

[OM617YOTA]

But a 10-10X arrays would give you 7.3kW. Think of it.

Wildly impractical. Hopefully just a joke I'm not getting.

 

[Mattb4]

Wildly impractical. Hopefully just a joke I'm not getting.

Sorry about that. It is easy to assume that everyone has lots of space for the panels. But if you have already covered every available surface, including the dog and wife, than obviously a constraint to full on Brute force solar would exist for you. You might have to run a modified BFS strategy in this case.

 

[Brucey]

Sorry about that. It is easy to assume that everyone has lots of space for the panels. But if you have already covered every available surface, including the dog and wife, than obviously a constraint to full on Brute force solar would exist for you. You might have to run a modified BFS strategy in this case.

I guess if you are that space constrained 1 or 2 axis trackers should be good for 30-40% boost

 

[OM617YOTA]

Sorry about that. It is easy to assume that everyone has lots of space for the panels. But if you have already covered every available surface, including the dog and wife, than obviously a constraint to full on Brute force solar would exist for you. You might have to run a modified BFS strategy in this case.

Some back of the napkin calculations, I actually own a pretty big lot for this area (0.38 acre), and 100x my current panels would cover roughly half the land area I own. Cost of the panels + mounting + wiring would be more than I'd spend on grid power for the rest of my life.

Ain't happening is quite an understatement.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Is there an emoji for huge envy?

My dream location is probably down the street from you.

39 acres... I'm sure we could work something out...

EDIT: and not to rub it in, but we're at 6500 feet... ya know... less air to see through. Double bonus for sunshine and viewing.

 

[Brucey]

39 acres... I'm sure we could work something out...

So my youngest built an 8*12 shed for his brother. I've been explaining my needs for ground mounts versus leaning them on his Suburban and trailer etc. So he's proposed something like a 100' long by 20' deep lean to type structure where we can store vehicles and my mowing equipment etc. go for a 60 degree of so angle, and just load that roof up with panels. Potentially make the "roof" out of bifacial panels. And then same with the south facing long side, vertical bifacials on another tracker

 

[Mattb4]

... would be more than I'd spend on grid power for the rest of my life.

Ain't happening is quite an understatement.

If you have grid as backup than a BFS plan is not financially prudent. I figure with what I have spent on my solar the last 5 years I could have paid for grid power until I was 128 years old. Though of interest I just had the grid go down a few minutes ago and it is a beautiful sunny afternoon with no reason for the loss that I can think of. Fortunately my Off grid setup is already fully charged and ready to go.