Fire suppression

[backwoods]

Can't speak for everyone but I sure won't be picking up or have the means to pick up a runaway battery to dump into a container of water.
I am sitting mine on kaowool so if it ever comes to that, the kaowool will at least absorb the water and maybe help cool down the reaction.
At least in a camper type situation, for home use, hooking up a water suppression wouldn't be to difficult.
Such as ampster posted above.

 

[Ampster]

Just some perspective on this thread. To me the best mitigation is the choice of chemistry. LFP has such little risk of fire that I don't spend any time worrying about my 42 kWh LFP pack. There is more risk with my ebike and power tool batteries. Presumably they all have temperature sensors in their BMSs.

 

[Warpspeed]

As a safety measure, how about splitting up cells into isolated "clumps" of very few individual cells, so if one cell does burst into flames it is somewhat isolated from the rest of the battery. Obviously not practical in a vehicle, but might be workable for domestic solar.

The problem seems to be that in a fairly high voltage battery, all the cells are usually in pretty intimate contact, and the whole lot will then probably go up.

As far as making a mess goes, heat and smoke damage are going to be huge anyway, no matter what extinguishing agent is chosen.

 

[rhino]

Is there reason why the big box office stores don't seem to carry CO2 extinguishers or where I should order one? The most reasonable place I've found to order online was uline.com but then saw there was a $68 shipping charge because it was considered hazardous.

I found https://fireextinguisherdepot.com which seems to get away with not having a hazardous shipping fee added which on a 5lb CO2 extinguisher adds over $100 shipping cost alone.

 

[after1985]

Can't speak for everyone but I sure won't be picking up or have the means to pick up a runaway battery to dump into a container of water.
I am sitting mine on kaowool so if it ever comes to that, the kaowool will at least absorb the water and maybe help cool down the reaction.
At least in a camper type situation, for home use, hooking up a water suppression wouldn't be to difficult.
Such as ampster posted above.

Would you mind expanding on how you're using the Kaowool?

My battery is in the under-bed storage area in my travel trailer. I thinking of lining the floor and the top of the storage box with kaowool. Would this cause any unforeseen issues? Is it ok for the battery to sit on the kaowool?

 

[Warpspeed]

Pay a visit to your local fire brigade and ask them about buying a used and refilled CO2 extinguisher.
They will either have them, or suggest where to go to get one.

 

[backwoods]

Would you mind expanding on how you're using the Kaowool?

My battery is in the under-bed storage area in my travel trailer. I thinking of lining the floor and the top of the storage box with kaowool. Would this cause any unforeseen issues? Is it ok for the battery to sit on the kaowool?

Mine is as well. I'm still putting mine all together. I'll post a picture when I get it all done.
I just laid a layer of kaowool down and the battery sits on top. The battery tie downs will keep it in place with the battery.
I don't see any reason why there might be an issue with this.
If there is an issue with it sitting on a soft blanket of material that can withstand 2000 degrees I haven't thought of it yet.
Not attempting to say there couldn't be one or it's even a good solution, just seems to me it is better than sitting on
plain cement board or even the trailer floor.

I haven't decided how I plan on attaching the kaowool to the bed platform above the battery.
I also am using it along the perimeter of the battery storage area. Air will still flow around it and above it.

 

[Maitake]

You can maybe put out the "fire" but the runaway reaction will continue which creates a highly flammable gas.
In an enclosed space.
With an ignition source.

 

[Danke]

Would fire sprinklers help in a small utility room with inverter and LiFePO4 batteries? Room is in house, and thinking I should have something for fire suppression. And water does cool the batteries.

 

[Danke]

Anyone? Bad idea?

 

[Hedges]

I'd put the batteries in a tub or sink (enameled steel should be fireproof and insulating), so water could fill to immerse rather than running across the floor.
Do not put your hand in water with 48VDC present.

 

[Ampster]

Would fire sprinklers help in a small utility room with inverter and LiFePO4 batteries?

Waste of money with LFP. A good BMS and conservative settings is a more cost effective risk management strategy.

 

[Danke]

Waste of money with LFP. A good BMS and conservative settings is a more cost effective risk management strategy.

Yes, I read LFPs are very safe. Running a water line and putting on a couple of fire sprinklers would be cheap in my situation. Biggest concern would be a false alarm/malfunction of sprinklers ruining equipment.

 

[Ampster]

Biggest concern would be a false alarm/malfunction of sprinklers ruining equipment.

Yes, water damage is an expensive consequence if a sprinkler goes off by accident.

 

[Technologist]

Once you see the price of Halon fire extinguisher systems you will typically have second thoughts.

I was a Nuclear Fire Safety Inspector at the San Onofre Nuclear Plant. Red Badge. I almost had to dump the Halon valves to the transformer room but held back. It would have costs many many millions to restart the Nuclear plant.

 

[Msg43]

Hi everyone. Just want to throw out an idea and see if it helps. I am building an electric boat with 4 sets of LFP batteries (150kW).

My understanding is that the LFPs don’t suffer thermal runaway ON THEIR OWN but in a mobile application like mine I worry about scenarios where the batteries can be impacted by a secondary thermal source.

I’ve been trying to come up with a solution and am considering some of the following inexpensive options:

1. Putting one of these in each battery box to snuff out a fire. That will hopefully allow a damaged cell to vent without re-igniting:

FireSlayer RV Automatic Fire Suppression https://a.co/d/eVr5Pq0

Or

BlazeCut “T” Series System T050E https://a.co/d/dHDVDnT

They are the same idea with slightly different powder. Supposedly safe for equipment(?)

2. In the bilge (outside of the battery box):

Jogoswall Automatic Fire Extinguisher, https://a.co/d/7PPEUxw

Or

ARMYJY AFO Fire Ball Automatic Dry Powder Fire Extinguisher https://a.co/d/jlwuBv8

3. A fire blanket to help ensure that any fire condition stays out until I can return to the dock.

 

[Ampster]

I think it is overkill considering the risk. Cooling would be more cost effective if external heat is the issue you are trying to mitigate. Presumably you have access to lots of water on a boat, which could reduce the secondary heat. Once a fire were to start don't the battery components give off oxygen? So smothering it with traditional fire suppression means will not stop the fire. Best risk management strategy is to reduce secondary heat.

 

[cs1234]

I would think traditional fire smothering devices meant to deprive a fire of oxygen would only work to prevent a cabling/connection fire from lighting the batteries on fire. It's not a terrible idea, if we are assuming the batteries wouldn't have ignited themselves and can only be lit on fire externally.

 

[Danke]

Hi everyone. Just want to throw out an idea and see if it helps. I am building an electric boat with 4 sets of LFP batteries (150kW).

My understanding is that the LFPs don’t suffer thermal runaway ON THEIR OWN but in a mobile application like mine I worry about scenarios where the batteries can be impacted by a secondary thermal source.

I’ve been trying to come up with a solution and am considering some of the following inexpensive options:

1. Putting one of these in each battery box to snuff out a fire. That will hopefully allow a damaged cell to vent without re-igniting:

FireSlayer RV Automatic Fire Suppression https://a.co/d/eVr5Pq0

Or

BlazeCut “T” Series System T050E https://a.co/d/dHDVDnT

They are the same idea with slightly different powder. Supposedly safe for equipment(?)

2. In the bilge (outside of the battery box):

Jogoswall Automatic Fire Extinguisher, https://a.co/d/7PPEUxw

Or

ARMYJY AFO Fire Ball Automatic Dry Powder Fire Extinguisher https://a.co/d/jlwuBv8

3. A fire blanket to help ensure that any fire condition stays out until I can return to the dock.

I just bought a bunch of these for my utility room:

90% Abc Dry Powder Tairan Brand Auto Fire Ball Extinguisher With Temperature Sensing Self-starting Device - Buy Fire Ball Extinguisher,Auto Fire Ball Extinguisher,90% Abc Dry Powder Auto Fire Ball Extinguisher Product on Alibaba.com

90% Abc Dry Powder Tairan Brand Auto Fire Ball Extinguisher With Temperature Sensing Self-starting Device - Buy Fire Ball Extinguisher,Auto Fire Ball Extinguisher,90% Abc Dry Powder Auto Fire Ball Extinguisher Product on Alibaba.com

www.alibaba.com

 

[David Collins]

Hi everyone. Just want to throw out an idea and see if it helps. I am building an electric boat with 4 sets of LFP batteries (150kW).

My understanding is that the LFPs don’t suffer thermal runaway ON THEIR OWN but in a mobile application like mine I worry about scenarios where the batteries can be impacted by a secondary thermal source.

I’ve been trying to come up with a solution and am considering some of the following inexpensive options:

1. Putting one of these in each battery box to snuff out a fire. That will hopefully allow a damaged cell to vent without re-igniting:

FireSlayer RV Automatic Fire Suppression https://a.co/d/eVr5Pq0

Or

BlazeCut “T” Series System T050E https://a.co/d/dHDVDnT

They are the same idea with slightly different powder. Supposedly safe for equipment(?)

2. In the bilge (outside of the battery box):

Jogoswall Automatic Fire Extinguisher, https://a.co/d/7PPEUxw

Or

ARMYJY AFO Fire Ball Automatic Dry Powder Fire Extinguisher https://a.co/d/jlwuBv8

3. A fire blanket to help ensure that any fire condition stays out until I can return to the dock.

Regarding the fire balls, I can’t say from direct experience but my hunch would be to go with the original Elide balls if you go this route. I have not seen independent tests comparing them to the ALO copies, only comparisons by Elide showing the ALO’a to be much less effective. Obviously not much motive for Elide to be fair and objective here, but their comparisons and claims seem at least plausible.

I will be putting a few of these around my system. If you choose these I would recommend at least putting 2 or 3 in position, as being single instantaneous release extinguishers it would seem wise to have one or two “just in case one shot didn’t do it” backups.