First timer - Thinking about 30,000 kwh ish system!

[adamantium]

So what is the Goal? - I would like to eliminate my power bill 100% if I can. If not, as close as I can (afford)
Brand new home.

Based on your budget, power company restrictions, and physical limitations, I think you may have to figure out what is consuming so much power. Since your average consumption is 2.24 kW per hour continuously, the server's 1.6 kW continuous per day sounds like the primary problem. If that wasn't running at all, your average would drop to .8 kW per hour average per day. It sounds like it is about 2/3s of your power bill. Computer servers don't use 1.6 kW of power unless they are a cluster of multicore multi-socket machines or a multi-GPU based system for mining or rendering running at 100% load. That's equivalent to almost two space heaters running 24/7 year round. You are also paying to cool all that heat in your house if you aren't venting it through a wall. Here is a good video from a guy who uses a lot of power. He has 4 electric vehicles and two Tesla power walls and explains what some of the physical limitations are that he encountered after purchasing his Tesla system. You might find something there help in deciding your balance of battery and panels.

 

[MrDan]

Agree with others, the EV is the biggest wildcard. Depending on driving patterns, the number of kw to recharge daily could be tiny or gigantic.

If you tow regularly with an EV (say you have a repair business with a small trailer and a new ford lightning) then all bets are off. TFL trucks on YouTube just towed with a lightning, pulling a travel trailer and it used about 1kw/mile.

So figure out your EV usage pattern and kw demand first, then the rest in my opinion.

 

[SoloCon]

Is it a rendering server or something? 1600W 24/7 is a lot.

I use it for a bunch of things. It runs ESXi which runs 4-5 VM's for misc things including Unraid which runs ~45TB's of disk space, all on spinning disk due to cost. I have data being backup to it and it backing date up to a cloud server as well.

 

[niktak11]

I use it for a bunch of things. It runs ESXi which runs 4-5 VM's for misc things including Unraid which runs ~45TB's of disk space, all on spinning disk due to cost. I have data being backup to it and it backing date up to a cloud server as well.

That power consumption seems high then. My 30TB NAS only uses like 100W even with all 10 disks set to never stop spinning.

 

[RichardL]

"...all on spinning disk due to cost."
Is there an opportunity to invest in reducing power load here rather than feeding the beast by spending on an oversize solar/battery system?

 

[Shimmy]

I use it for a bunch of things. It runs ESXi which runs 4-5 VM's for misc things including Unraid which runs ~45TB's of disk space, all on spinning disk due to cost. I have data being backup to it and it backing date up to a cloud server as well.

FWIW, that is still insanely high.

I run 6-8 Proxmox VMs on a pair of i7 NUCs, plus a desktop i5 NUC, 48-, 16-, and 8-port POE switches, a 6-bay Synology NAS, a little QNAP solid-state NAS, and a substantial CCTV system... along with several other bits and bobs on under 300W nominal peak. I do run a batch process that bumps me up to ~500W for 10 minutes a day max.

If you need the performance that is one thing, but if it is just old equipment it might be time to re-think. Most of my VMs have very limited workloads, so YMMV.

 

[MrDan]

It depends on the server (and the workload). I ran a DL580 HP and at idle it used in the neighborhood of 500 watts. The servers that I have with out of band pull around 20 watts while “off”. UPS units have a parasitic draw even just on but powering No load. I have some Eaton 1000’s and a 1500 UPS and it seems like they pull around 30 or so watts continuously. My switches (Aruba and Ubiquiti) pull at minimum 20 watts each, with one Ubiquiti easily pulling 60 watts. That doesn’t include a bunch of camera and access points, ptp wireless bridges, etc. The network, cameras and security system in my garage pulls a constant 110-120 watts. Most of my house is instrumented with Wemo plugs that a Sense unit reads and logs. This is how I gathered this wattage data.

I actually just checked one of my server racks and with a small atom powered pc running freenas connected to 3 SSDs, 7 servers powered off but plugged in with out of band active, 2 switches powered on, 1 UPS, and an APC remote controlled and metered PDU. It’s pulling 230 watts. It’s late here and nothing is hitting that Atom powered FreeNAS box.

It can spiral out of control quickly.

 

[MrDan]

The EV is the wildcard I think though. If you charge primarily at home and have a long commute that can add up to a lot of kWh’s really quick. I drive about 500-600 miles per week. That’s commute plus everything else.

 

[SoloCon]

The EV is the wildcard I think though. If you charge primarily at home and have a long commute that can add up to a lot of kWh’s really quick. I drive about 500-600 miles per week. That’s commute plus everything else.

No EV at this time.

 

[adamantium]

No EV at this time.

Did you ever reach a conclusion on what you plan to do?

 

[MrDan]

Some questions regarding hardware:

• Regarding the solar panels, how is SolarEver compared to Jinko? Do they both use micro inverters?

I don’t know the differences between the brands, but probably either can use micro invert but it is not mandatory for either of them. You could use a string inverter if you prefer.

• • New/used, does it really matter? I'm looking at buying from SanTan Solar which is here in AZ.

probably mostly depends on how important warranty is to you and how “used” the used panels are.

• Can I use used solar panels in a grid tied system?

I’m not sure of any certifications that panels might need from Underwriters Laboratories, but it seems like it’s likely you could use used panels.

Sol-Ark is probably considered more DIY friendly compared to brands like Enphase or Generac.

• Good? Bad? Cheaper options?.

A lot of people really love their Sol-Ark gear. I don’t have Sol-Ark so I can’t comment with anything other than what I’ve read about them. There are cheaper options. It seems like Growatt is one of the more affordable options that is popular.

• Batteries - I got a recommandition of something like a 40 kwh system. Does this sound correct? How long would this last me? Looking back at my largest month in the last 3 years, I used 4,769 kwh for the month of Aug, 2020

It seems like 4769/30=159kWh per day average. 40 kWh would help you load shift, covering a little less than 1/3 of your average 24 hour power usage as stated in the month of August 2020.


I would start by taking a close look at what is consuming all of this energy in your home. Perhaps you have a malfunctioning AC system or a severe insulation problem or some other building problem. I would seriously consider purchasing a Sense device to figure out if it would be possible to reduce you average power usage. Sense is cheap compared to the cost of the solar install. It could be a valuable tool to help you track down this high power usage and if it doesn’t help it’s not that much money out of pocket: https://sense.com/.

 

[MrDan]

I also want to mention one other thing. Inflation.

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Getting what you can now helps you lock in the price you pay per kWh when it’s generated by you. I do not expect retail power prices to go down; PG&E is supposed to raise rates in California by 20-40% in the next several years. Obviously this doesn’t mean that the trend will follow in AZ, but it is certainly not outside the realm of possibility.

The cost of batteries could remain high for at least a couple of years according to a market analyst I listened to a few days ago. Obviously this is speculation…your mileage may vary.

 

[Hedges]

For grid tie or anything on a house, panels with UL label intact is the thing to get. Some used ones have 'em, some are "white label" with any UL label stripped off. I would select best quality anyway, but some people are getting good results with cracked backsheet, snail trails, manufacture name and UL label gone.

Any UL listed used panels are fine on a house from permitting point of view in the US. Inverter may need to be UL-1741-SA (not just UL-1741) for grid tie in some markets.

Brands of inverters - I use SMA Sunny Boy and Sunny Island. Solid, quality products. Easy enough to DIY. There is also "Sunny Boy Storage", but that requires high voltage battery (expensive), and separate transformer/transfer switch for backup. I would stick with Sunny Island. Price - premium product and price, but a fair value, and discount/closeout/liquidation tends to be available. Especially older models not for UL-1741-SA grid support (often required for backfeed).

 

[SoloCon]

Did you ever reach a conclusion on what you plan to do?

I'm working with SanTan Solar to come up with a game plan and to see how many solar panels will fit on my roof and go from there. I'm working with one of their engineers over there.

From there, I plan to buy their hardware and find someone local to install on the roof and then have an electrician come out to and do their magic.

If I can't fit it on the roof, I'm looking into pergola's as an option or wait until I get my RV garage (3-5 years out) and see what kind of space I have there.

Last option would be to do ground mount.... really don't want to, but will if needed.

 

[phipsi1237]

For a project like this, I'd start going through SolarEdge and Enphase online training certifications. Very Enlightening. I'm planning a 25kw ground mount in New Mexico soon. I've found complete systems (minus some wiring, conduit, etc) for under $40k. The solar place you mentioned scares me though.

 

[SoloCon]

For a project like this, I'd start going through SolarEdge and Enphase online training certifications. Very Enlightening. I'm planning a 25kw ground mount in New Mexico soon. I've found complete systems (minus some wiring, conduit, etc) for under $40k. The solar place you mentioned scares me though.

Why do you say that? From everything I've been reading, they come highly recommended, even here on the forums? I could be wrong, but Santan Solar seems to have a very solid reputation?

 

[phipsi1237]

Why do you say that? From everything I've been reading, they come highly recommended, even here on the forums? I could be wrong, but Santan Solar seems to have a very solid reputation?

From first search, it seems like they're more RV small scale stuff. Then their website is all used stuff. As long as you're comfortable, that's what matters, I guess.

 

[niktak11]

From first search, it seems like they're more RV small scale stuff. Then their website is all used stuff. As long as you're comfortable, that's what matters, I guess.

They have new panels on their website too

 

[Hedges]

SanTan has treated all of us well. Certainly recommended for honesty and customer service.

PV panels are purchased in large lots for big jobs. Leftover brand new panels get dumped to places like SanTan, so they have small quantities.

Commercial arrays taken down for one reason or another also go to places like SanTan. Some have labels stripped; we understand the "SanTan" panels with cracked backsheets, snail trails, etc. are Trina. Others have original labels.

If you get quality used panels with a track record of not degrading, for 50% to 75% off new, hard to go wrong with that.

Sometimes they have top brand inverters.

Alt Energy Store has new panels and large selection of inverters.

 

[SoloCon]

One of the engineers at SanTan says I could fit 50 solar panels (410 watt) on my roof, excited about that. I would not be getting 100% efficiency, but still believes I would be producing more then I use, even with my high usage.

I have a few questions, I know this is a DIY form and something I want to do, but feel for something this size, I could call in some help for guidance. While I'm paying SanTan to engineer it, I need to find someone to help me install it to the roof (step one).

Any pointers on who I should look for to do this?

• Would a typical framer do something like this?
• Someone who installs Solar for a living as a possible side job?
• How much would something like this cost to install, assuming I'm buying all the hardware including wiring/mounting hardware

Some additional questions that came up:

• Batteries or whole home Generac generator? I've lost power 8 times in the last 10 months I've been in this new home (grid issue). Nothing more then a few hours.
• Sell pack to power company or not?
  • Is it worth the extra cost? For the first 3-5 years, I'll be using about 70% of my projected usage until I finish my RV garage build and add the mini splits.

Thank you all for the advise given so far! So much learning still needed and glad we're making progress.