First timer - Thinking about 30,000 kwh ish system!

[Danke]

Now I'm confused,

Would it be better to go with the ZnShine Bifacials at 540w or the SolaEver 455 - non Bifacials? (Roof mount)

Go for the most efficient panel that you can afford. A smaller panel with a lower wattage rating may be more efficient than a larger panel with a higher wattage rating. Though you may save a little in installation with fewer, larger panels. Just depends on the size and dimensions of the real estate of your roof.

The ratings for bifacial are for the front side, and they usually include a chart for specs with the different percentages of gain from the back.

 

[adamantium]

If the server ever shut off, and the rest of his house loads were low enough, wouldn't that export out onto the grid and get him in trouble?

Yes I believe feeding power back to the grid is prohibited. So he needs to make sure he doesn't do that. However if he only plugs it in when he is running his server, and turns it off when he isn't, then the server will draw all the power he can generate with a couple little grid-tie micro inverters. So he needs to be smart about it and not break the law. He could connect both the inverter and his server to the same power strip and turn both on and off at the same time. For a few hundred dollars in panels and a couple $150 inverters he could solve most of his current consumption problem. Its much cheaper than 50 x 400W panels, two 12kW inverters, a 1500Ah battery and solar installation.

 

[adamantium]

Assuming all other things are equal (and they're not), what you are looking for is power per dollar. If you can find a bifacial that produces more power per dollar than anything else, then that is what to buy. But I think you will find that a standard monocrystalline panel is the best on a roof. A bifacial panel mounted in parallel 6 inches off a black roof isn't going to give you anything. They need space behind them to capture reflective light. So unless the panels are less expensive you would be wasting your money. Also smaller panels can facilitate better placement around obstacles on the roof. You should calculate the area of the panels relative to their power output to make your decision. The ZnShine 540W panels are large. 4000 square inches. A standard panel is 2800 square inches. So you need to calculate what their efficiencies are against their prices. A standard 400W panel produces a little more power per square inch than a 4000 sq-in panel producing 540W. If they are priced the same though buy the less efficient panel because you will need less of them to buy. Bifacial doesn't matter in your case though.

 

[cs1234]

Yes I believe feeding power back to the grid is prohibited. So he needs to make sure he doesn't do that. However if he only plugs it in when he is running his server, and turns it off when he isn't, then the server will draw all the power he can generate with a couple little grid-tie micro inverters. So he needs to be smart about it and not break the law. He could connect both the inverter and his server to the same power strip and turn both on and off at the same time. For a few hundred dollars in panels and a couple $150 inverters he could solve most of his current consumption problem. Its much cheaper than 50 x 400W panels, two 12kW inverters, a 1500Ah battery and solar installation.

I'm pretty sure it's breaking the law in a few places in the United States to hook up a couple little grid-tie micro inverters onto a power strip regardless of whether they "export" or not.

While it would work, is simple and cheap, it's best to at least make sure they understand they will be in violation of various codes/laws and if anything does happen, their homeowners/renters insurance isn't going to cover anything.

I wish we could use such simple devices and not be in violation, microinverters are amazing for that purpose, but we can't use them for that purpose and be in compliance.

 

[iamrich]

I'm pretty sure it's breaking the law in a few places in the United States to hook up a couple little grid-tie micro inverters onto a power strip regardless of whether they "export" or not.

While it would work, is simple and cheap, it's best to at least make sure they understand they will be in violation of various codes/laws and if anything does happen, their homeowners/renters insurance isn't going to cover anything.

I wish we could use such simple devices and not be in violation, microinverters are amazing for that purpose, but we can't use them for that purpose and be in compliance.

You could run a simple all in one with AC being fed from the grid to the server. If the sun is producing, the inverter will supply, if not the grid will pass through the inverter. There are a bunch of 2-3kwh units under $700 that will do this. You would need a battery, but it doesn't have to be huge, just enough to power the inverter on.

 

[nscottsdale]

Picked up my 455w solarevers @ santan today. This is what 18kw looks like:

 

[Hedges]

"

• Dimensions: 82.44 in x 40.86 in x 1.37
• Weight: 51.8 lbs.

"

Almost a 4x8 sheet, no wonder so much power fits well in the bed.
Have fun wrangling them! Best as a 2-man job.

Here's a similar wattage of 327W SunPower.
More within my ability to handle.

I found a decent deal on 240W used panels, and I’m headed out of state to pick ‘em up tomorrow.

Really sorry to hear that. I'm not sure where you broke down. But, if you were passing through Kentucky and need a hand with anything, let me know.

diysolarforum.com

 

[SoloCon]

Picked up my 455w solarevers @ santan today. This is what 18kw looks like:

View attachment 105681

What Price point did you get them at if you don't mind sharing?

 

[SoloCon]

I'm taking this in baby steps and looking at solar panels. I'm working with SanTan Solar who's suggesting 51 of their SolarEver 410W solar panels. They are also doing the plans for the system and getting them approved.

I'm thinking it might be better to go with the SolarEver 455 or better yet, the ZnShine 540W

If I go with the ZnShine, I would only need about 39 of them. Still need to confirm they would fit on the roof.

• Are the ZnShine as good as SolarEver? The 540w ZNShine are ~1.18 inch thick where as the SolarEver 455w is about 1.38 inches tick

Price wise:

• They are quoting me $250.00 per panel for used SolarEver 410w. Total of 51 panels which = $12,750.00 for 20,910 watts. That's ~.61 cents per watt.
  • For a used panel, I'm 100% sure I can do better then this with them.
• The 455w SolarEver off their website is $276.00 bit a brand new panel. If I went this way, I would only need 46 to get me to 20,930 watts. 46 panels * 276 = $12,696 which is .62 cents per watt
• The ZnShine 540w are selling for $252.89 each, of which I would need about 39. 39 * $252.89 = $9,862.71 which would get me about 21,060 watts, which is ~ .47 cents per watt.

(I plan to buy 2-3 extra panels just to keep on hand)

Thoughts? Any input would be greatly appropriated.

Anyone provide any input on these options?

 

[robby]

Anyone provide any input on these options?

Before you buy anything you need to get some exact measurements of the space you have for mounting them and work out how each of these panel strings are going to fit. Just being short 2” in length or width of the area can mean a whole row or column of panels won’t fit.

Then you have the Voc of the panels to consider versus what voltage each MPPT can handle. Calculating out how many panels is needed for each string and can they all fit facing in the same direction is key to deciding what will work.

When I did my system my lower row ended up being less than inch from the edge of the roof. I had calculated this and made a hard pass on buyin some 400W panels that would have hung over the edge and therefore been useless as soon as my wife saw them??

 

[solardad]

Anyone provide any input on these options?

@SoloCon I think you have received some good advice and suggestions so far.
To your last question, I don't think you can go wrong with the listed options as long as they first and foremost fit the area that SanTan is diagraming out for you. Some observations and thoughts from a DIY who has installed a few systems and built a couple battery banks.

1- Panel orientation is key - from the earlier roof pics. your panels seem to be facing at least three different directions. So production numbers will not be the same as if they were all facing south throughout the year. You will need to take that into consideration otherwise you will be disappointed.

2 - Roof mount - make sure you know what you are doing when making a penetration in your roof. Water can be a killer to the structure if you do not flash, seal properly. Not to mention it is extremely dangerous if you are not good with heights and do not take precautions. I have installed both, roof and ground mount, and would take ground mount over roof any day unless you do not have the land. 50lb panels at this size are not easy to handle and assume a min. of 2nd person to help install if you plan to do this yourself.

3 - Solark - Very good inverter. i have the 12k, and for what you want to do it would be an ideal choice. Especially when it comes to future proofing. Some users mentioned utilities reneging on their net metering deal or reducing the credit, the sol-ark would provide a level of insurance in allowing you to beef up a battery bank to increase self consumption. Quick personal story - A friend had a $35k grid-tie system put in and their sump pump dies 9 months later. He complained that they were unable to use the $35k system as a backup and ended up spending $9k on a new backup generator. If they had a sol-ark installed upfront he could of just bought 20-30kw of batteries as back up instead as a new emergency back up and improve self-consumption. All possible through programing and critical loads options the inverter offers.

<edit> I would add that if your goal is to still be tied to the grid I would not purchase 2 15k sol-arks initially, just one. I would instead use that money for either panels / batteries. The extra inverter would be wasteful at this point from what you have shared and you would get more bang for your buck in other areas of your system. The beauty of the Sol-Arks is that adding a 2nd one is straight fwd., just make sure you leave space in your mech. room for it.

 

[JoeHam]

@SoloCon here is an idea for you that you can implement right now at low cost. Get one or two small grid tie inverters for $70 - $100 and connect a couple of panels to them to produce 800 - 1600 watts of power and just plug them into the outlet that your server is plugged into.

I tried one of those last month and it was kind enough to die within my 30 day free return window at Amazon fortunately.

They have an unacceptably high failure rate IMHO. I was aware of this from reading, reviews etc. but still wanted to give it a try. Had it died a week later it would have been more tuition paid to the school of hard knocks for me.

I have no experience with the larger GTIL 1-2 kW units with a CT to prevent back feeding but it’s hard to get ROI payback if the units don’t last long enough.

 

[adamantium]

Picked up my 455w solarevers @ santan today. This is what 18kw looks like:

View attachment 105681

Nice! I love seeing hardware.

 

[adamantium]

@SoloCon I think you have received some good advice and suggestions so far.
To your last question, I don't think you can go wrong with the listed options as long as they first and foremost fit the area that SanTan is diagraming out for you. Some observations and thoughts from a DIY who has installed a few systems and built a couple battery banks.

1- Panel orientation is key - from the earlier roof pics. your panels seem to be facing at least three different directions. So production numbers will not be the same as if they were all facing south throughout the year. You will need to take that into consideration otherwise you will be disappointed.

2 - Roof mount - make sure you know what you are doing when making a penetration in your roof. Water can be a killer to the structure if you do not flash, seal properly. Not to mention it is extremely dangerous if you are not good with heights and do not take precautions. I have installed both, roof and ground mount, and would take ground mount over roof any day unless you do not have the land. 50lb panels at this size are not easy to handle and assume a min. of 2nd person to help install if you plan to do this yourself.

3 - Solark - Very good inverter. i have the 12k, and for what you want to do it would be an ideal choice. Especially when it comes to future proofing. Some users mentioned utilities reneging on their net metering deal or reducing the credit, the sol-ark would provide a level of insurance in allowing you to beef up a battery bank to increase self consumption. Quick personal story - A friend had a $35k grid-tie system put in and their sump pump dies 9 months later. He complained that they were unable to use the $35k system as a backup and ended up spending $9k on a new backup generator. If they had a sol-ark installed upfront he could of just bought 20-30kw of batteries as back up instead as a new emergency back up and improve self-consumption. All possible through programing and critical loads options the inverter offers.

<edit> I would add that if your goal is to still be tied to the grid I would not purchase 2 15k sol-arks initially, just one. I would instead use that money for either panels / batteries. The extra inverter would be wasteful at this point from what you have shared and you would get more bang for your buck in other areas of your system. The beauty of the Sol-Arks is that adding a 2nd one is straight fwd., just make sure you leave space in your mech. room for it.

Great advice. Ground is the way to go if you have the space. Its SO much better for cleaning and maintenance. Less death. I'll just add that there are new models coming now that Deye is using a single US distributor. You should look around for alternative 12k hybrids that can do the same job or better than the Sol-Arks for substantially less money. If you work out the right deal you can pay for 3/4 of your panels with the savings with just one inverter purchase. With two you can cover your entire cost of panels and have a few thousand to spare for other things (maybe like batteries, or a big fat 37.5kW isolation transformer just for fun ).

 

[adamantium]

Anyone provide any input on these options?

Just to add a few cents more to robby and solardad and the others who have provided great input above.

To summarize:
- you need to consider getting the best price per watt,
- you need to decide if you are going to use microinverters or string inverters.
- you need to map out the placement to make sure the panel sizes you choose will fit the way you want them to,
- buying less panels that are larger and produce more power will save you money since each panel is around $250 or more,
- if you choose string inverters, you need to understand how many strings you will end up with, their voltages, currents, and how many MPPT controllers you will need for all the angles you are going to support on your roof,
- bifacials don't matter for your installation unless you choose to ground mount. Then it will be an advantage.
- After all of that is worked out, you need to figure out which inverter(s) will support your choice of panel.

Personally I would choose the ZnShine based on their power out, reduced number of panels to buy, bifacial capability, price, and not usedness. The only thing I worry about with them is getting them to fit all of the smaller areas you plan to put them. Make sure the wattage you need with them will fit in the spaces you have.

Have you made a final decision on roof or ground mount yet? If you can do ground mount, you don't have to worry about any of this and can just string them up in a few big rows in the best orientation for the year. Otherwise you must make sure they will fit. This is true of whatever you choose, and only you have the dimensions to do this.

If you roof mount, then you need to count how many orientations you will have and make the decision to use microinverters or not. I don't trust microinverters on the roof and have heard about lots of problems with them overheating or dying. Its an additional cost that is significant. Maybe those issues have been addressed, but I trust a string inverter in a garage over many microinverters on a hot roof for twenty years, and its more complicated.