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diy solar

For off-grid in Finland, Deye, EG4, or Growatt?

The Deye idle consumption seems to be a huge question mark...
Real life for my 2 * 12k is about 60w each, but question is, especially off-grid, how much do you expect them to idle ?

To add, but that goes for all "clouds" : stay away from that, and use your own, local monitoring, and connect them only if you require a firmware update
 
The Deye idle consumption seems to be a huge question mark...
They are hybrids so they waste more than pure off-grid inverters (so I have been told). My Deye12Ks use ~65W each which is a lot for off-grid smaller setup. For me it's insignificant as I'm grid tied and my system has produced over 1MWh already this month (four days).

I do abuse my system intentionally and I get fault messages almost daily in winter for PV overcurrent going over 800V or less often AC overcurrent if there's utility power failure (really rare here though). I do this on purpose as I have been told here that these high frequency cheap Chinese shitty inverters are short lived and badly manufactured with inferior parts. Two years and close to 100MWh produced so far.
 
The Deye idle consumption seems to be a huge question mark...
I got a response from the vendor now: ”1) The inverter's consumption during operation is negligible. When it's in standby mode and not working, it consumes approximately 40 watts per hour.” I assume this means when there is no load, the device uses 40W, this is a fairly low number IMHO.
 
I got a response from the vendor now: ”1) The inverter's consumption during operation is negligible. When it's in standby mode and not working, it consumes approximately 40 watts per hour.” I assume this means when there is no load, the device uses 40W, this is a fairly low number IMHO.
Yeah, make that 60-65 watts, but like I said , it is low, all things considered
 
”1) The inverter's consumption during operation is negligible. When it's in standby mode and not working, it consumes approximately 40 watts per hour.”
40 watts is 350 KWH per year.

That seems more than "negligible" and that's just "standby mode" when it is doing nothing. Inverter makers don't seem to put an emphasis on waste consumption of their units.

Mike C.
 
40 watts is 350 KWH per year.

That seems more than "negligible" and that's just "standby mode" when it is doing nothing. Inverter makers don't seem to put an emphasis on waste consumption of their units.

Mike C.
Again, when is that inverter going to be in standby mode ?
Not sure where you're from but a 450w panel sells here for 40usd per pallet new, so if that 350 kWh is negligible...
 
Inverter makers don't seem to put an emphasis on waste consumption of their units.

A Victron MP-II 3kVA has 11W idle, it's about the best you can get anywhere. If you go higher in power output capability, idle (or rather, let's call it self consumption since it's always there) goes up as well. It's just the nature of inverter design.
 
I recently swapped to victron multi rs solar and I'm happy.off grid with ca. 8.5kw solar pannels(6kw drawn by the mppt's)and 34kw diy lifepo4 .You can throw almost anything at the victron and so far no complaints 🤣
With a cerbogx you are able to add and with node red to control quite well.Three phase is now supported for most countries ,parallel not at the moment...Best of luck with choosing 😱
 
40 watts is 350 KWH per year.

That seems more than "negligible" and that's just "standby mode" when it is doing nothing. Inverter makers don't seem to put an emphasis on waste consumption of their units.

Mike C.
Luckily though, not even here in Finland the sun sets for a full year at a time ;-). I have been thinking that in the worst case, during some periods in the winter, let’s say 30d at a time, the panels might not get enough light at all, if I would mount a few vertically. That equals 29 kWh of battery which is about the same as one third of what an EV has. 14h of no sun, I.e. one night, is around 0,6 kWh which is 50% better than my current inverter. If the daylight only gives enough charge to run the inverter, then the 29kWh will last for 2 months.
 
A Victron MP-II 3kVA has 11W idle, it's about the best you can get anywhere. If you go higher in power output capability, idle (or rather, let's call it self consumption since it's always there) goes up as well. It's just the nature of inverter design.
If the Victron would cost 1kEUR more but I put that money in batteries instead, I could afford 30 watts more in self consumption for about 40 nights.
 
BTW I haven’t made my decision yet, as I am still waiting for Luxpower’s Europe-partner to contact me. Luxpower keeps repeating that they have asked their partner to contact me (3 weeks ago), but I am starting to think that if this is how interested they are in customer service when buying, then their customer service in case of trouble later on might be on an unacceptable level….
 
If the Victron would cost 1kEUR more but I put that money in batteries instead, I could afford 30 watts more in self consumption for about 40 nights.

MP-II GX is 639 Euro at Akku-Ässä, the non-GX is 539 Euro but not in stock.

https://www.akku-assa.fi/product/2530/victron-multiplus-ii-gx-48v---3000va---35a-invertterilaturi

https://www.akku-assa.fi/product/1061/victron-multiplus-ii-48v---3000va---35-32a-invertterilaturi

DIY LFP battery comes in at 75 Euro per kWh or thereabout.
 
Ok, what solar charge controller etc additional devices are needed to reach the similar functionality as Deye? I am not very familiar with the Victron setup. Is it possible to have 2 in parallel, so that I can bet closer to the 6 kW I am looking for? That would raise the self consumption to 22W (still lower).
 
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The 5 kVA Victron MP-II would also be an option. Don't remember its self-consumption, but it should be under 22W. But yes, you can run them in parallel as well.
As for a charge controller, any stand alone one that can handle your panels will pretty much do. You can have multiple if your array gets bigger or points in different directions. Victron MPPT charge controllers are good, but can be more pricy.

For the rest, you just need the usual: cabling and breakers.
 
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Now I discovered that Suomen Akut here in Finland market the Deye sun-6k-sg03lp1-eu under the battery-maker brand ”Tab”. The spec for approved batteries is even a Deye document. 😆

I was buying something else on their webshop and recognised a picture of the product.


I wonder which other re-brands there are for this same device?
Anything with a BMS that support pylontech..
I use the seplos dit 280 mason boxes, but jk BMS boxes, pace and many others will work just as well

Don't get caught in the "supported" by trap, these "deye" batteries ( same goes for sunsynk) are from an OEM that uses the pace BMS, and are price inflated
 
Anything with a BMS that support pylontech..
I use the seplos dit 280 mason boxes, but jk BMS boxes, pace and many others will work just as well

Don't get caught in the "supported" by trap, these "deye" batteries ( same goes for sunsynk) are from an OEM that uses the pace BMS, and are price inflated
I like the idea of DIYing all my batteries. Is there a way to connect my JK BMS to the Deye? I bet there are many discussions on similar topics on this forum…
 
I like the idea of DIYing all my batteries. Is there a way to connect my JK BMS to the Deye? I bet there are many discussions on similar topics on this forum…
Depends on what model of jk you have, the server rack model yes, the other models I am not so sure
 
Latest: the Luxpower dealer emailed me yesterday, finally. Their product has its merits, and gaps too. The price is better, however the efficiency is ’only’ 93%
BTW I haven’t made my decision yet, as I am still waiting for Luxpower’s Europe-partner to contact me. Luxpower keeps repeating that they have asked their partner to contact me (3 weeks ago), but I am starting to think that if this is how interested they are in customer service when buying, then their customer service in case of trouble later on might be on an unacceptable level….
 
They are hybrids so they waste more than pure off-grid inverters (so I have been told).

It's simple: even when idling with no or very little load, an inverter must produce AC sine wave voltage. This means the power devices are switching constantly, and the output filter has ripple current. So there will be switching and conduction losses. There's no way around it. It's AC so it cannot go to sleep in the middle of the sine wave. Basically it means for the same design scaled up, idle power loss will be proportional to max output power. To get lower idle power, you have only three options:

- Cheat, as Victron does, and output a potato shaped sine wave at very low power to reduce losses, it seems to work

- A better design (silicon carbide, etc)

- Two inverters in parallel, a low power one with low idle losses, and a high power one that only starts up when needed (more expensive, and it needs integrated so the big inverter starts instantly)

On the other hand, DC-DC converters can scale down as much as needed: if there's enough capacitance at the output, when running at low power, the converter can switch between bursting some power into the output caps and sleeping. This increases output voltage ripple, but that's not usually a problem. This means, if the only loads you have that need to be constantly powered can run on DC, for example lights, network, etc, then powering them from the batteries via DC-DC converters and turning the main inverter off at night can be an option. But it's a hassle.

Further complicating the matter, efficiency isn't just a number, it depends on output power. Victron publishes it:

1745404353089.png

1745404438647.png

They are excellent for idle power, also efficiency at low power is good, but at high power it's not that good.

For hybrids the data is hard to find, and they will often give the PV->AC efficiency which only considers MPPT and inverter, but not battery DC-DC conversion, so it is useless for you. That said a HF inverter like Deye should have higher idle losses than Victron (50-70W) and a flatter efficiency vs power curve (better at high power).
 
It's simple: even when idling with no or very little load, an inverter must produce AC sine wave voltage. This means the power devices are switching constantly, and the output filter has ripple current. So there will be switching and conduction losses. There's no way around it. It's AC so it cannot go to sleep in the middle of the sine wave. Basically it means for the same design scaled up, idle power loss will be proportional to max output power. To get lower idle power, you have only three options:

- Cheat, as Victron does, and output a potato shaped sine wave at very low power to reduce losses, it seems to work

- A better design (silicon carbide, etc)

- Two inverters in parallel, a low power one with low idle losses, and a high power one that only starts up when needed (more expensive, and it needs integrated so the big inverter starts instantly)

On the other hand, DC-DC converters can scale down as much as needed: if there's enough capacitance at the output, when running at low power, the converter can switch between bursting some power into the output caps and sleeping. This increases output voltage ripple, but that's not usually a problem. This means, if the only loads you have that need to be constantly powered can run on DC, for example lights, network, etc, then powering them from the batteries via DC-DC converters and turning the main inverter off at night can be an option. But it's a hassle.

Further complicating the matter, efficiency isn't just a number, it depends on output power. Victron publishes it:

View attachment 294062

View attachment 294063

They are excellent for idle power, also efficiency at low power is good, but at high power it's not that good.

For hybrids the data is hard to find, and they will often give the PV->AC efficiency which only considers MPPT and inverter, but not battery DC-DC conversion, so it is useless for you. That said a HF inverter like Deye should have higher idle losses than Victron (50-70W) and a flatter efficiency vs power curve (better at high power).
Insightful, thanks.
 
I am now also empirically learning what it means to have a relatively high startup PV voltage. My inverter charged my batteries 40% from zero, while my close neighbour charged theirs from 0-87% with a similar setup (battery and PV array) where the biggest difference was that they have a Victron Easysolar 24/3000/150/70. I think it’s startup voltage is on much lower level than ours, which is 150V.
 
I'm using Deye and would go Victron if I had to buy again. Many here are complaining that Deye offers zero support, even if you're supposedly "under warranty." In my own personal experience, they will not give a legit response to any questions. Either they will send a nonsense low-effort response, or ignore you entirely.

Somewhere on this forum a guy mentioned that Deye's engineer logged into his inverter to update his firmware, the firmware broke his machine, and Deye just disappeared on the guy. Wouldn't even respond.

Plus they also have exercised a remote kill switch on certain customers that bought Deye products from outside the authorized dealer territory. They intentionally activated a remote kill switch on these customers. There's a whole thread about that here. Most of the people on that thread concluded that Deye's behavior was unethical. If you have your heart set on Deye hardware, buy Sunsync but verify first if Sunsync actually responds to support questions.

The other advantage of Victron is things are modular. If you buy an AiO, if one part fails, the whole thing goes in the bin. That's particularly true with Deye, since how the hell are you going to get parts from them if they don't answer customer messages? With Victron, you get actual support, there's a real actual warranty, and you can replace the part that failed. Seems a lot smarter to me. That plus @sunshine_eggo likes Victron and he's the smartest guy on the forum. So I hear. Or I might have heard it from him, not sure. 🤔
 
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With Victron, you get actual support, there's a real actual warranty, and you can replace the part that failed. Seems a lot smarter to me. That plus @sunshine_eggo likes Victron and he's the smartest guy on the forum. So I hear. Or I might have heard it from him, not sure. 🤔
I think the virus has totally corupted his mind... notice he does not post any photos of himself? its becasue all of the blue pigment he is trying to hide.... I call him Papa Smurf for a reason! :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
I ended up ordering a Luxpower SNA6k
Pros: low startup voltage, semi low self consumption, price, responsive seller (at least in the sales phase…), dealer inside EU
Cons: efficiency, noise, dealer outside Finland

If this one gives me grief, then I will most probably start educating myself on how to set up something around a Victron.
 

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