For the best connection I solder, do you? Why not?

[Daddy Tanuki]

Well yeah. That's why I will agree that an OK solder job is superior to a garbage crimp.

Doesn't change the fact that it has real consequences, particularly in mobile applications, and crimping is strongly recommended for that reason.

I've been soldering and crimping stuff for 20 years or so. While I understand that does not make me any sort of authority on the subject I can tell you I've had to repair a lot of really good solder joints that break where the wire leaves the lug and crimps just don't do that. Not all at once anyways.

A solder joint is usually good right until it isn't, while a crimp will break a few strands here and there which is easily found by regular inspection.

No amount of money in manufacturing will make a solder joint a superior mechanical connection without additional strain relief.


It might be 15 months or it might be 15 years later but to me a hundred dollars on a crimper for a thousand plus dollar project to have a lower chance of burning my camper down with me in it is well worth the cost.

so where does that figure in the government scheme of pricing? pretty sure this crimper I got was sold to the US for about 659999 USD in 1978 or so....

and I picked it out of the base trash before getting out....

 

[Short_Shot]

so where does that figure in the government scheme of pricing? pretty sure this crimper I got was sold to the US for about 659999 USD in 1978 or so....

and I picked it out of the base trash before getting out....

If it's about performance at any cost then the government proves it by (mostly) using crimps and spending as much as is humanly possible to do so lmao

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

If it's about performance at any cost then the government proves it by (mostly) using crimps and spending as much as is humanly possible to do so lmao

i was kinda of joking about how much went to the cia or nsa but yeah you are correct. it crimps perfectly every single time... yet i got it out of a dumpster of refuse in 89... i was not even into solar and could not let it go....

 

[12VoltInstalls]

However a person decides is like whatever its ur decision. Like seriously attacking folks saying U R WRONG then to quote what the person views as a high profile organization... like geez crimping, soldering, tie a string

Not being mean or dissing you, but those assumptions are wrong. It’s explicit for NASA because their failure tolerance is essentially zero.

It’s not a decision or a preference- certain things are to be done explicitly a certain way by standards and codes for very good reasons. And for a long time.

I have a very old book on marine wiring that is an amazing educational resource. I think it printed in 1962? or somesuch. Basically everything in that NASA document is in that book (except the heat shrink lol). This isn’t picky-uni stuff, and none of it is hard to do.
Interestingly, it does detail how to ‘rotate’ a splice into/onto an insulation-stripped wire that has not been cut, just stripped; and only once mechanically/contact spliced is it soldered. (though I’m weird and I open a split-barrel crimp and crimp usually before I solder).
Naval standards allow soldering but only mid-wire splices, not at terminals.

This isn’t one-upmanship- it’s good practice.

Interestingly it also forbids crimping tinned wires, which is the only place I've seen that, though it might be in other documents and I've missed it.

It only prohibits crimping field-tinned wire ends along with solid wire - because they are the same in practice. Prohibition of crimping tinned stranded (marine) wire i don’t think is their intent here.
That is in some “other documents” but only for not crimping solid, and I believe there’s notes in NEC about this.
So you are correct: and you know that but no, it’s not generally mentioned

That’s why wire nuts are used for stranded-to-solid: it’s a mechanical connection. It’s not a mechanical connection if an interference swage is used on a solid conductor. Which is what crimping solid wire or field-tinned ends is.

 

[Short_Shot]

Not being mean or dissing you, but those assumptions are wrong. It’s explicit for NASA because their failure tolerance is essentially zero.

It’s not a decision or a preference- certain things are to be done explicitly a certain way by standards and codes for very good reasons. And for a long time.

I have a very old book on marine wiring that is an amazing educational resource. I think it printed in 1962? or somesuch. Basically everything in that NASA document is in that book (except the heat shrink lol). This isn’t picky-uni stuff, and none of it is hard to do.
Interestingly, it does detail how to ‘rotate’ a splice into/onto an insulation-stripped wire that has not been cut, just stripped; and only once mechanically/contact spliced is it soldered. (though I’m weird and I open a split-barrel crimp and crimp usually before I solder).
Naval standards allow soldering but only mid-wire splices, not at terminals.

This isn’t one-upmanship- it’s good practice.


It only prohibits crimping field-tinned wire ends along with solid wire - because they are the same in practice. Prohibition of crimping tinned stranded (marine) wire i don’t think is their intent here.
That is in some “other documents” but only for not crimping solid, and I believe there’s notes in NEC about this.
So you are correct: and you know that but no, it’s not generally mentioned

That’s why wire nuts are used for stranded-to-solid: it’s a mechanical connection. It’s not a mechanical connection if an interference swage is used on a solid conductor. Which is what crimping solid wire or field-tinned ends is.

Makes sense. I was thinking of the tinned stranded wired you buy that are copper with each strand having it. Like this:


But I suspect they meant as you described, when manually tinned like this, which is effectively solid:



Since I don't work for NASA I don't see much value in trying to clarify if they mean one, the other, or both.

I'd still crimp the top ones, but I am aware that it's theoretically less good.

 

[Supervstech]

I like!

As bonus, each photograph may relieve you of the need to utter one thousand words ?

---

After doing an important crimp or joint or whatever, if I have had coffee and food, I remember to snap a quick photo of the work so that later it’s maybe easier to figure out what’s going on with my system failure.

This is an old factory wire from my 2003 diesel sprinter van negative cable…
The firewall lug end is crimped and soldered and has zero heat or failure on it, the battery end is crimped only, and has severe overheating melted insulation and corroded conductor strands.

Odd, they would solder the end furthest from the acid fumes, but not solder the end on top of the battery…

 

[OM617YOTA]

My day job is providing electronical doodads to various companies. One company buys a few thousand circular connectors every year, eventually destined for a large aircraft company you've all heard of and whose aircraft you've likely flown on.

Not a single connector is soldered.

I used to be in the "solder everything!" camp, and can do a neat job with an iron or a torch, but now crimp everything.

 

[Supervstech]

My day job is providing electronical doodads to various companies. One of them buys a few thousand circular connectors every year, eventually destined for a large aircraft company you've all heard of and whose aircraft you've likely flown on.

Not a single connector is soldered.

I used to be in the "solder everything!" camp, and can do a neat job with an iron or a torch, but now crimp everything.

Keep in mind, that also, not a single connector is exposed to the elements either.

 

[Short_Shot]

This is an old factory wire from my 2003 diesel sprinter van negative cable…
The firewall lug end is crimped and soldered and has zero heat or failure on it, the battery end is crimped only, and has severe overheating melted insulation and corroded conductor strands.

Odd, they would solder the end furthest from the acid fumes, but not solder the end on top of the battery…

I'd be curious to know how far down the solder goes into the lug. Could be just a cap, could be that it goes all the way.

The battery end is subject to handling a lot more than the firewall end (replacing batteries over the years) and may just be blindly following a spec that doesn't apply to the other end.

If they used a closed lug and good heat shrink at the battery the corrosion wouldn't be a factor and the mechanical strength would be satisfied.

This is further evidence that soldering is not avoided to "save money" as a so often pointed out in this thread.


Did you replace it with oem parts or build your own, and if so how did you terminate it?

 

[Supervstech]

I'd be curious to know how far down the solder goes into the lug. Could be just a cap, could be that it goes all the way.

The battery end is subject to handling a lot more than the firewall end (replacing batteries over the years) and may just be blindly following a spec that doesn't apply to the other end.

If they used a closed lug and good heat shrink at the battery the corrosion wouldn't be a factor and the mechanical strength would be satisfied.

This is further evidence that soldering is not avoided to "save money" as a so often pointed out in this thread.


Did you replace it with oem parts or build your own, and if so how did you terminate it?

I replaced it with a tractor supply 1/0 molded cable. After replacing it with the factory one, and watching IT melt, I decided bigger would be better.

 

[Supervstech]

I also replaced the dragging starter. MAN a weak starter really causes issues… if your engine is slow turning over, get a new starter installed… mine ate two factory cables, the alternator seized, taking out the serpentine belt, and two tensioners (why are they made of plastic again?) took my work van down for a week waiting on parts…

 

[Short_Shot]

Made of plastic to keep you at the dealership.

 

[offgriddle]

Oh my, someone needs a life, pity.

This thread has gotten beyond hilarious. Seriously folks... the discussion is about crimping, soldering or whatever.

However a person decides is like whatever its ur decision. Like seriously attacking folks saying U R WRONG then to quote what the person views as a high profile organization... like geez crimping, soldering, tie a string.

Hilarious. Note: some of us were begged by many groups after publications. Most of us end up leaving for the research world. And many like myself, end up like Dr Su (CEO of AMD), whom is also EE, move into the financial world.

So u come across an interesting topic forum concerning an area uve decided to check out for whatever reason.

And bam, its like college again with all the chest pounding, arrogant dictating concept... big joke but true was many many switch to biz majors.

Can u see the trees thru the forest? Meaning ppl have their reasons for whatever they choose to do.

I stand by my determination that red and blue are equal colors. I prefer the combo, purple. Afterall, purple is the best color CUZ I SAY SO. LOL

 

[Supervstech]

I'd be curious to know how far down the solder goes into the lug. Could be just a cap, could be that it goes all the way.

The battery end is subject to handling a lot more than the firewall end (replacing batteries over the years) and may just be blindly following a spec that doesn't apply to the other end.

If they used a closed lug and good heat shrink at the battery the corrosion wouldn't be a factor and the mechanical strength would be satisfied.

This is further evidence that soldering is not avoided to "save money" as a so often pointed out in this thread.


Did you replace it with oem parts or build your own, and if so how did you terminate it?

I can see the strands on the insulation side, there is no solder on them. So, it looks like solder is just capping the end.