For the best connection I solder, do you? Why not?

[Bob B]

I have seen this argued on many threads on multiple forums ..... the novice always thinks soldering is better and after a little experience realizes that a mechanical connection is needed in addition to the solder connection .... and then with more experience realize that a really good crimp with no solder is the best.

 

[Don B. Cilly]

I solder any small signal level type crimps
I crimp any large high current connections

Funny, I do just the opposite. But that is just because
a) I don't have any proper crimping tools and
b) I am quite good at soldering.
In fact, I often solder small wires too, if I want to be sure of a good connection - I guess I shouldn't buy cheap crimp connectors either... ;-)
For larger wires, I obviously use a blowtorch. And above all, grade A 60/40 solder with flux in it.
Never had a soldered connection fail. Had plenty crimped ones do (OK, OK, proper tools and materials :·)

This is because with high current comes temperature rise and expansion/contraction. This can cause the solder to compress and crack and you end up with a poor connection; similar to a cold solder joint.

I really don't know about that... I mean, how hot do your wires get? Mine don't, really.
Also - and this might be of general interest here, because, even if it has nothing to do with solar or electricity, it's definitely a DIY way of saving energy and making the best of available resources - I have a pressure-cooker-radiator ring on my wood stove.

The copper tubes are soldered. They get really hot. Are subject to constant vibration (from the pump and other sources too long to explain). In winter, if I leave the house for some time, they also get quite cold - and then suddenly hot again. I've bent them and adjusted them - both hot and cold. They don't leak. I mean, water, if it leaks, you see it ;·)

 

[RickP]

I’m in the “crimp it all” camp. Good lugs and wire/cable, good crimping tool, and paying attention to fit during assembly makes for a solid mechanical connection that is trouble free. I’m not doing marine work, i should point out. There’s a whole set of standards over there that I’m not versed in.

By the way, I have seen comments saying only ratcheting tools work reliably, but my Temco Dieless crimper has worked great on sizes from 6 to 4/0. I‘ve seen Will Prowse use a hammer crimper. It can be done, and done right.

 

[Short_Shot]

I’m in the “crimp it all” camp. Good lugs and wire/cable, good crimping tool, and paying attention to fit during assembly makes for a solid mechanical connection that is trouble free. I’m not doing marine work, i should point out. There’s a whole set of standards over there that I’m not versed in.

By the way, I have seen comments saying only ratcheting tools work reliably, but my Temco Dieless crimper has worked great on sizes from 6 to 4/0. I‘ve seen Will Prowse use a hammer crimper. It can be done, and done right.

Eh.

Hammer crimps work. Idk if I'd call it "right". If they're used properly they are good enough.

But if you are oversizing things a bit you'll never see an issue with them.

 

[RickP]

Eh.

Hammer crimps work. Idk if I'd call it "right". If they're used properly they are good enough.

But if you are oversizing things a bit you'll never see an issue with them.

Agree. I haven’t used hammer crimps at all, and they’re not Will’s go-to either… just saying that you can make it work if that’s all you’ve got. The Temco crimper, on the other hand, does an awesome job on airtight, solid crimps. It’s a solid tool for the DIYer.

 

[Northernchateau]

If you have the proper crimping tool for the connector being used and you know how to use it by all mean crimp.
If not but all means solder it.
IMO what must be soldered is, the battery lug ends connectors when using a Lead Acid battery, especially if they are in a battery box with limited ventilation.
I have repaired things countless times where connectors were not crimped tight enough and the wire came loose and even seen where they were over crimped and cut thru some of the strands.
A good set of crimps for all the different connectors you might use are not cheap.

 

[DJSmiley]

It all depends on the tools

Using crappy crimping tools makes a worse connection than soldering.

For optimal crimping, always use the corresponding lugs and crimping tools. There is difference between lugs, and that can make the difference between a good and bad krimp.

In high-amp situations, soldering is even not allowed in many cases. I prefer Klauke lugs and crimping tools, but they are $$$
With those tools however, I'm not afraid to pull 400A for long periods.

A crappy crimp can heat up extremely at only 100A current...

 

[Short_Shot]

It all depends on the tools

Using crappy crimping tools makes a worse connection than soldering.

For optimal crimping, always use the corresponding lugs and crimping tools. There is difference between lugs, and that can make the difference between a good and bad krimp.

In high-amp situations, soldering is even not allowed in many cases. I prefer Klauke lugs and crimping tools, but they are $$$
With those tools however, I'm not afraid to pull 400A for long periods.

A crappy crimp can heat up extremely at only 100A current...

I accept this logic despite my insisting on crimps.

To anyone reading this thread for information:

I'd be willing to bet whatever structure, vehicle, or trailer you have your system in cost a lot more to replace if it burns down than a good crimper does. So consider buying one if at all possible.

Alternatively, find an electrician who you might be able to bring the cables to crimp em for you. You might even be able to bribe the guys at a supply store nearby with lunch to get them crimped.

 

[Don B. Cilly]

I'd be willing to bet whatever structure, vehicle, or trailer you have your system in cost a lot more to replace if it burns down than a good crimper does.

Yeah, well, but "whatever structure" does not have to use 100+ A of current, does it? I never really go over 25 either way (charge or discharge).
The only part of the installation that gets hot is the inverter. The rest - I've checked, repeatedly - is never even warm.

 

[Short_Shot]

Yeah, well, but "whatever structure" does not have to use 100+ A of current, does it? I never really go over 25 either way (charge or discharge).
The only part of the installation that gets hot is the inverter. The rest - I've checked, repeatedly - is never even warm.

That's a remarkably small system compared to what most of the regulars here are doing.

A 3kw inverter pulls about 140 amps from a 24 volt pack after losses, and that's a wee little baby system that a lot of folks put in their RVs.

 

[NwCali]

I've never saw a factory battery soldiered end fail on a car battery....

Yet the other end going to the starter is crimped almost always.

I'm with the camp that if your good at one or the other (which might depend on your tools) that either is simply fine.

Were not building Aircraft here...

And if it was a Boeing I'd not trust either one that they did...

 

[Don B. Cilly]

That's a remarkably small system

Yes, it is. It's a one-person bus conversion.
I have a 3K inverter, but I pretty much never use it for anything above 500W (20A) and that only for a few seconds.
What it usually draws are about 4A, 2-2½ for the fridge, and the rest... laptop, external monitor, not much else.
Lights and pump are 24V direct.

 

[boondox]

I accept this logic despite my insisting on crimps.

To anyone reading this thread for information:

I'd be willing to bet whatever structure, vehicle, or trailer you have your system in cost a lot more to replace if it burns down than a good crimper does. So consider buying one if at all possible.

Alternatively, find an electrician who you might be able to bring the cables to crimp em for you. You might even be able to bribe the guys at a supply store nearby with lunch to get them crimped.

While I agree that a proper crimp tool is the only way to go, if your system burns down due to a poor crimp then it wasn't properly designed and fused. But your point is still well taken.

I am in the crimp larger and crimp and solder smaller camp. It is also situational. Vehicles vibrate. Boats are more corrosion prone. If the wire is feeding an ADC then special care is needed.

 

[Short_Shot]

While I agree that a proper crimp tool is the only way to go, if your system burns down due to a poor crimp then it wasn't properly designed and fused. But your point is still well taken.

I am in the crimp larger and crimp and solder smaller camp. It is also situational. Vehicles vibrate. Boats are more corrosion prone. If the wire is feeding an ADC then special care is needed.

A bad crimp can turn 50 amps through a lug into a glowing red light no problem lol

 

[Short_Shot]

I've never saw a factory battery soldiered end fail on a car battery....

Yet the other end going to the starter is crimped almost always.

I'm with the camp that if your good at one or the other (which might depend on your tools) that either is simply fine.

Were not building Aircraft here...

And if it was a Boeing I'd not trust either one that they did...

I've never seen a factory soldered end on a battery in my life.

I have seen molded ends where a lead lug is cast onto the wire though.

 

[boondox]

A bad crimp can turn 50 amps through a lug into a glowing red light no problem lol

Sure. But if you sized the fusing right it will pop.

 

[Short_Shot]

Sure. But if you sized the fusing right it will pop.

That's not how fuses work.

You can have 4/0 wire and a 250a fuse and if it's glowing at 50a your 250a fuse will never pop.

 

[boondox]

That's not how fuses work.

You can have 4/0 wire and a 250a fuse and if it's glowing at 50a your 250a fuse will never pop.

If the load is still drawing 250 amps and the connector is dissipating 50 amp, won't that add up to a fuse pop? Won't there be a runaway causing the load to increase? However, I guess you are still right in that it is possible for it to get hot enough to cause problems without a fuse popping. Thanks for the correction and information.

 

[Don B. Cilly]

I guess in the end the idea is, whether you solder or you crimp, don't do it badly

 

[Q-Dog]

I guess in the end the idea is, whether you solder or you crimp, don't do it badly

I was told that you have to be smarter than whatever it is you are working on.