"Ford secures battery supplies for 600,000 EVs a year from 2023"

[Ampster]

They were literally walking in piles of poop

That explains the long skirts so the poop on their shoes could not be seen.

 

[Hedges]

In ten years I think I have driven over 150,000 miles and at a savings of $0,20 per mile that has saved me $30,000.

In 12 years I've driven 150,000 miles in a hand-me-down Civic; at $0.10 per mile it has cost me $15,000. Imagine what I've saved over an EV.

At post-Ukraine gas prices it will be closer to $0.20 per mile.
Perhaps in another 150,000 miles, or maybe tomorrow, I'll be due for a replacement. At that point I'll drive the pickup while shopping for a plug-in hybrid.

 

[cs1234]

That explains the long skirts so the poop on their shoes could not be seen.

Yup, when you look at those old photos, nobody was wearing shorts and flip flops. That's what the automobile has truly done for us, we can now wear shorts and flip flops everywhere.

 

[Hedges]

Man you must HATE fossil fuel companies then. Have you looked at the amount of subsidies they receive?

The Oil subsidies are more a myth than actuality.

Biggest subsidy is in dollars and blood, for middle east oil.
Our Navy should not protect shipping lanes for foreign-flagged ships, unless there is a mutual defense treaty with costs proportionately borne by beneficiaries.
Domestic oil has its own costs (environmental and water supply damage) but doesn't require Regime Change in other countries.
The costs should trickle down to the pump. Then, competition with EV could occur on a level playing field.

 

[Ampster]

Imagine what I've saved over an EV.

I can do the math and the cost of driving an EV would be less but nothing can beat the acquisition cost of a hand me down Civic.

 

[cs1234]

In 12 years I've driven 150,000 miles in a hand-me-down Civic; at $0.10 per mile it has cost me $15,000. Imagine what I've saved over an EV.

At post-Ukraine gas prices it will be closer to $0.20 per mile.
Perhaps in another 150,000 miles, or maybe tomorrow, I'll be due for a replacement. At that point I'll drive the pickup while shopping for a plug-in hybrid.

I would say "Don't worry, nobody is going to take your junky old civic away from you.", but that would be a lie. I'm sure if you park it in the wrong place for a few minutes it will at the very least be missing the cat if not gone altogether.

I have a Prius, but I also own a huge 26' diesel box truck, the right tool for the job and all that, one gets 45mpg and can't carry anything. The box truck can pull a house and I can't even tell that it's got anything loaded in it, but my goodness, the GPM! (gallons per mile)

EV's have many advantages over existing vehicles, and they have many disadvantages in our current situation. For many homeowners, EV's are fine, for apartment dwellers or people with only street level parking, not so much. People that need oversized vehicles for hauling crap around all day, with day jobs that last from before the sun comes up to the middle of the night, an EV isn't going to work.

Over time the problems with EV's will be lessened, and people will adjust, and possibly even come to love them. Especially once the aftermarket comes in and you can get fart cannon add ons and fake coal roller attachments!

 

[cs1234]

I can do the math and the cost of driving an EV would be less but nothing can beat the acquisition cost of a hand me down Civic.

I've owned a couple Honda's over the years, I loved them, but I've found something to like about pretty much every car I've had. Machines and technology are cool, even crappy products can be appreciated for their attempt at doing something.

 

[Hedges]

I would say "Don't worry, nobody is going to take your junky old civic away from you.", but that would be a lie. I'm sure if you park it in the wrong place for a few minutes it will at the very least be missing the cat if not gone altogether.

Many times, someone has pulled up next to me and asked, "Would you sell it?"
I live in San Jose, and a base model Civic CX, without so much as power steering, is the best platform to install a VTEC engine for performance.

Couple Christmases ago, I went to the driveway an found the Civic missing. It was ditched later a few blocks away, with some items and mail left inside. All that is needed to steal one is a handful of keys.
Couple days later, someone drove through the neighborhood slowly. My neighbor went over to see what he wanted. "Have you seen this car?" he asked, as he held up a photo of a white Civic. The Postal Inspector; my car and been spotted stealing U.S. mail. Fortunately, I had a police report (which I could have arranged after the fact), but also a security video from gas station with the suspects putting $20 worth of gas in the tank at 8:00 AM.

 

[Hedges]

I've owned a couple Honda's over the years, I loved them, but I've found something to like about pretty much every car I've had. Machines and technology are cool, even crappy products can be appreciated for their attempt at doing something.

Best car I've every owed.
At 170k, heard a tapping noise, confirmed my diagnosis Googling. I pulled the transmission, replaced bad bearing and a couple other parts.
My repair costs have averaged maybe $150/year for that, timing belt kit, radiator, A/C, etc. Not counting tires, oil, hoses.

Sable about $250/year having overhauled transmission, top end, replace cat, water pump, harmonic balancer, etc.
Much more bother for the Mercury than the Honda.

Expenses of $10 to $20/month are way down on the Pareto chart.

A Saab 99LE gave me a lot of trouble, but as you say there are things to be appreciated as well.


How are EVs at breakdowns? DIY repairs?

 

[Ampster]

The story by @Hedges is reason number 35 to own an EV. My EV can be remotely turned off and located via GPS and it saves a video of the person who stole it. It also doesn't use a key. I should clarify the key thing. One uses a Fob and the other uses the Bluetooth on my phone but does have a key card for use in emergencies.

 

[Hedges]

It doesn't use a key to steal it?


Back in the days of electric fuel pumps and carburetors, disabling fuel pump was probably best theft defense.
After car is hotwired and driven half a block, it dies in the middle of the street. Not likely he will hang around to debug it.

Does yours have a geofence feature? Then it can notify you rather than the other way around.


Is your EV full self-driving? Instead of turning it off ...

 

[Ampster]

How are EVs at breakdowns? DIY repairs?

Lower cost of operation. A simple 3 phase motor with one moving part. Eight year warranty on drive train and battery. Not DIY friendly for repair, but none of the ICE cars I owned previously could be repaired without a diagnostic computer.

 

[Hedges]

One part moving maybe 27,000 RPM and a few more to reduce that to driveline speeds.

Something along these lines is all the diagnostic computer I've used. OBD-II reader with live data graph.
Tells me which cylinder is misfiring, graphs O2 over time, etc.

ZR8s OBD2 Code Reader with Live Data

Amazing deals on this Zr8S Live Data Obd2 Code Reader at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

If an EV was just a fairly dumb VFD module (like on my pool pump) going to drive motor, there would be less concern.
Some EV seem to have considerable computer integration.

I don't want "Automobile as a service", any more than I want "Printer ink as a service"

HP’s Ink Subscription Has DRM That Disables Your Printer Cartridges

Printer ink is expensive. HP promises to help with a subscription service for ink, complete with cartridges that stop working when you cancel your subscription. But HP makes you count pages, and I’d rather print as much as I want.

www.howtogeek.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/api1wj

You can lease me something, or you can sell me something. If I buy it, you can't charge me to use it or reach in and shut it off.

 

[Danke]

The story by @Hedges is reason number 35 to own an EV. My EV can be remotely turned off and located via GPS and it saves a video of the person who stole it. It also doesn't use a key. I should clarify the key thing. One uses a Fob and the other uses the Bluetooth on my phone but does have a key card for use in emergencies.

Not a plus in my book. Big brother will shut you off is you social score is low.

 

[Ampster]

Some EV seem to have considerable computer integration.

Oh yes, significant computer integration. Rebooting is the first thing I do if there is an issue. I also get updates over the air at least several times a month, I realized it is not for everyone and that is another reason I am not worried about grid capacity because there will always be lots of people keeping their ICE vehicles running.

One part moving maybe 27,000 RPM and a few more to reduce that to driveline speeds.

Yes a couple of fixed gears in the differential to give it an 8 to 1 ratio. I have to change that oil once every 50,000 miles.

 

[Ampster]

Not a plus in my book.

You are another reason I am not worried about the grid being overwhelmed by EVs. It will take a long time before we are even at 50% EV drivers.

 

[cs1234]

You can lease me something, or you can sell me something. If I buy it, you can't charge me to use it or reach in and shut it off.

Sadly, that ship has sailed. I'm not sure how we put a stop to the bull crap that software as a service has started. We would have to all agree to boycott and stop buying pretty much everything en masse. Given the lack of cooperation amongst people worldwide, I don't see that happening.

 

[Danke]

You are another reason I am not worried about the grid being overwhelmed by EVs. It will take a long time before we are even at 50% EV drivers.

I’d like to have an EV (I like toys). But just can’t justify the expense. Of my 5 vehicles, four I bought used. And the one I bought new is almost 30 years old, still runs great.

I am a DIYer on vehicles, most of the maintenance I do myself.

 

[Hedges]

Rebooting is the first thing I do if there is an issue. I also get updates over the air at least several times a month, I realized it is not for everyone

Definitely not for me.

The PC I use for web browsing requires updates as the web evolves (I mean deteriorates), and at work I need compatibility with whatever data files and services.
I'm using an old XP laptop to communicate with inverters. Not all can be connected to with the proprietary monitoring boxes I bought.
Car, has whatever ECU firmware, one updated once for an emissions recall.

If I take a taxi, I don't care whether it is owned or leased.
If I buy something, I expect to use it for the rest of its natural life. And to repair it with new or used parts, fabricate myself if necessary.

For EV, that may mean retrofit a replacement battery. If open sourced BMS protocol (or dumb like FLA golf cart), that might be possible.

 

[eXodus]

You are another reason I am not worried about the grid being overwhelmed by EVs. It will take a long time before we are even at 50% EV drivers.

80% new vehicle sales will be EVs at 2028 (if supply permits) 99% by 2035 (the last niche applications will take a while to phase out)
But average ICE vehicle currently is 12-14 years old. If we assume that large last bulk of ICE will be sold around then end of this decade we are looking at 2045 until the number starts dropping significant.

At that point the ICE engine will be like a Horse, some people will still have them, but it's more a novelty and hobby then a way to get around.

Used to work in Energy Economics - the amount EVs use on the grid is miniscule. As soon as you got a EV you plug it in every night like your phone - draw like 5-10kwh/h and then it's done. All those grid failures scenario assume that everyone charges complete empty EV every day (nobody drives that far in a day) the average drive distance is like 39 miles in a day - what good EVs manage with like 6-8kwh.

Lots of horror stories to make clickbait - the grid is fine from a EV perspective. But it's not fine from our daily commuting patterns. Having everyone turning their stove, TV on and taking a shower (and water heater reheating right away) all after getting home - that is taking a toll on the grid.

 

[cs1234]

Lots of horror stories to make clickbait - the grid is fine from a EV perspective. But it's not fine from our daily commuting patterns. Having everyone turning their stove, TV on and taking a shower (and water heater reheating right away) all after getting home - that is taking a toll on the grid.

Staggered work shifts help a bunch. They really help with peak traffic as well.

 

[eXodus]

People that need oversized vehicles for hauling crap around all day, with day jobs that last from before the sun comes up to the middle of the night, an EV isn't going to work.

serial hybrids to the rescue.

Actually the largest vehicles on the planet are electric driven. Cruise ships, Container ships, Railroads. Haul tons of crap around every day with the power of electrons.

So now you might say - but they all run on Diesel, - yeah their generators run on Diesel -but the drive is electric.

 

[73powerstroke]

I'm a hippy huh.. first hippy I ever saw with two dozen V8s in his shop.

Did you watch the video I linked? Do you understand that just because you have peak issues, doesn't mean your grid can't happily support charging a ton of EVs at non peak times? The facts are all laid out in the video. But you won't even bother watching that because you're so convinced that you know better than anyone else.. pretty pathetic. Yes, there is a problem with your grid. No, it does not preclude charging EVs.

And of course you're an antivaxer. You don't believe in any science. That's clear.

If you're so dead against alternative energy, EVs and "hippies", maybe you shouldn't be hanging out on an alternative energy forum?? Perhaps you'd be more comfortable with a user base that enjoys rolling coal, yelling MURCA out your window with half a dozen chump flags flapping in the wind.

Not even gonna read you're posting you obviously liked to argue. I have over 3 kW of solar that runs my AC during the day. So we'll leave it at that go do your thing and stop bothering me

 

[eXodus]

Staggered work shifts help a bunch. They really help with peak traffic as well.

Most of our peak energy issues could be solved with scheduling.

Why do we have a Mon-Fri week? Why Weekends? Why a 7 day week? Why 40 hour with 8 hour days?
Why do we go to the office again to sit in a cubical?

None of those concepts are given, humanity made them up.

We could switch to a 10 day week with 4 days off. 4x9 hours, 3x 12 hours. There are so many possibilities.

There are so many places which sit empty most of the time, because we account for peak usage - instead of scheduling efficient.
Think about that - your office building is only used like 45 hours out of a week. There are 168 hours in a week, it's incredible inefficient.

 

[cs1234]

serial hybrids to the rescue.

Actually the largest vehicles on the planet are electric driven. Cruise ships, Container ships, Railroads. Haul tons of crap around every day with the power of electrons.

So now you might say - but they all run on Diesel, - yeah their generators run on Diesel -but the drive is electric.

View attachment 104788

When I say EV's, I'm not talking Hybrids. I love hybrids, especially serial hybrids, I have a Prius (not a serial hybrid), remember? I know they are ideal for large vehicles, the regenerative braking alone is fantastic for MPG improvements. I've wanted a hybrid work vans for my fleet forever, but nobody makes one available here in the states yet that isn't a one off custom build.

EV's get lumped in with Hybrids all the time, but they are not the same thing. EV's don't have the benefits of a hybrid, but they also aren't hauling around an unnecessary (most of the time) ICE all the time for giggles. Not doing so is of course also a benefit for the EV, from a simplicity, cost and efficiency standpoint.