Foshan SNAT SNADI hybrid all in one

[AussieSim]

I thought I would make a post about my new Foshan SNADI / SNAT all in one.

Looking at inverters, the options are high frequency and low frequency, and of the low freqency they tend to be either elongated or rectangular, with or without an solar charger.

Whilst many have posted their wall mounted systems with [ batteries / switches / fuses /step down converters / MPPT / Inverter / battery indicator ] the appeal of an All in one is price and compact size.

I found several manufacturers on Alibaba and Camille from Foshan SNAT has been my sales rep. I was able to order a custom 5000W AC 48V inverter, with 60A MPTT charging as well as AC charging.

The unit was customized to the EVE280Ah LiFePO4 spec sheet, with the low voltage cutoff at 44.8V (5% SOC)

I was very happy that they were willing to customize one single unit order to 50Hz 240V (whereas other vendors sell 220V).

Here are the in progress shots Foshan SNAT sent me


I chose mine with no battery, they offer smaller size inverters, smaller MPPT and 2.2kWh and 4.4kWh battery options



And here is mine with the cover removed



Unfortunatly I could only fit 2 rows of 7 EVE280Ah cells inside the battery compartment, the case has handle cutouts and an external battery terminals cutout which prevent 8 adjacent cells.

Moving cells 8+9 and the BMS to the side, everything fits, and the rear door latches closed !



It's not mandatory to install a battery internally, and as there are internal battery cables and external battery terminals you can have 2 batteries as long as they are identical.

The inverter mode supports AC Grid priority, Energy saving mode and Battery priority mode.

In grid priority mode the battery charge rate can be set at 20/40/60/80/100%, with 1200W max.

Camille pointed out that in Grid priority mode the All in one acts as a UPS and as such if drawing a 5000W load, the input would need to be wired by an electrician to the mains power. Personally I use a standard 240w 10A socket, just for battery charging, and then switch to Battery Priority.

With the inverter at about 2100W output, the fan is near silent, about the noise level of your car fan set at "1". Inverter efficiency appears to be 90-92%.

I paid $665 without a battery.
66kg in a wooden crate.
48V 5kW low freq inverter charger
60A MPPT
Output 240V 50Hz AC

 

[Hedges]

Does the toroid transformer have thermostat, fan? For 5000VA, it seems a bit smaller than what I've been playing with.
I have a 9000VA transformer which is much larger and massive.
I have a small one I was able to put 1250W through (for 2500W 120/240V auto-transformer) only with lots of airflow.

I'm thinking it may get rather hot running full load and you could improve that.
I got a 40 degree C thermostat to control fan, and 90 degree C manual reset for shutdown.
I see vents near it. If exhaust air passes over transformer on the way out, that may be sufficient.

How hot does it get inside the box? Batteries want to stay cool, so should be positioned where incoming air goes over them first before cooling electronics and being exhausted from the container. (If in lower separate compartment, no problem.)

If you haven't read them already, see the threads about battery terminal oxide, corrosion inhibitors, and stripped threads.

 

[AussieSim]

There are 2 fans in a push-pull arrangement with variable fan speed. When turning on the unit the fans kick in a high speed for a few seconds with some startup beeping.

The battery bay is completely separate from the electronics, no fan in the battery bay, but there are vents. 5000W at 48V is only 104A so a fairly low C rate.

I ran a capacity test at between 1100-2200W for about 5500Wh, the fans never needed to increase speed, the exhaust air never felt warm, the battery cables stayed room temp. (I haven't installed a battery inside the battery bay yet, only connected to an external battery via the battery bay cables)

I supplied the EVE280 spec sheet to Foshan SNAT and my requested low voltage protections. The BMS shown in the photo is a 200A JBD BMS which has 3 temp sensors and allows max/min temp settings.

Regarding oxidation/galvanic corrosion, I haven't thought too much about it. Amy Wan of Shenzhen Luyuan supplied me with wider tinned busbars that cover the entire terminal. The unit will be used indoors either in the garage or inside.

Once my IR multimeter arrives from China I'll choose the 16 closest cells and check their voltages through the charge cycle, then I'll look at double sided tape between cells and maybe noalox.

 

[Hedges]

Tinned busbars is good.
I think the cell terminals are bare aluminum. Check voltage drop of each connection under maximum load. They may benefit from treatment.
Good to see studs; that should avoid the stripped aluminum threads some people had.

Lots of cells in parallel for balancing. Will that be 16s1p in the final configuration? (therefore balanced wiring, no imbalance possible as with multiple strings in parallel.)

 

[AussieSim]

Tinned busbars is good.
I think the cell terminals are bare aluminum. Check voltage drop of each connection under maximum load. They may benefit from treatment.
Good to see studs; that should avoid the stripped aluminum threads some people had.

Lots of cells in parallel for balancing. Will that be 16s1p in the final configuration? (therefore balanced wiring, no imbalance possible as with multiple strings in parallel.)

Yes final configuration will be 16s, however cells 8+9 will need to be connected by cables. I am thinking 1AWG 35cm cables with crimp lugs 6mm holes.

Like this

 

[Hedges]

Wires instead of busbars no problem, except for higher voltage drop affecting what is seen at sense lines by BMS. Just calculate what that would be, decide if acceptable.

Why not spin around the pair #8 & #9, put a busbar between #1 & #16, connect battery cables to #9 & #10?
(Not necessarily performing the steps in exactly that order!)

 

[AussieSim]

Wires instead of busbars no problem, except for higher voltage drop affecting what is seen at sense lines by BMS. Just calculate what that would be, decide if acceptable.

Why not spin around the pair #8 & #9, put a busbar between #1 & #16, connect battery cables to #9 & #10?
(Not necessarily performing the steps in exactly that order!)

I think you might be a genius, as you suggest if I rotate the two extra cells around and add 2 busbars, I should be able to get away without any cell-cell cables.

"10-" would become 1-
"9+" rotated 180 degrees becomes "16+"

My top balance will probably take a week to 3.55v ( 9p x2 cells, 2 x 10A benchtop power supplies ) ; then I'll connect them as 18p and balance up to 3.64v; then rest the cells for a few days down to <3.39; then voltage and IR match and label.

 

[Hedges]

Humbly acknowledged.

 

[AussieSim]

I'll rotate the polarities of every single cell, such that 1- is next to the BMS at the front and 16+ is in the back left corner.

 

[danelo616]

I thought I would make a post about my new Foshan SNADI / SNAT all in one.

Looking at inverters, the options are high frequency and low frequency, and of the low freqency they tend to be either elongated or rectangular, with or without an solar charger.

Whilst many have posted their wall mounted systems with [ batteries / switches / fuses /step down converters / MPPT / Inverter / battery indicator ] the appeal of an All in one is price and compact size.

I found several manufacturers on Alibaba and Camille from Foshan SNAT has been my sales rep. I was able to order a custom 5000W AC 48V inverter, with 60A MPTT charging as well as AC charging.

The unit was customized to the EVE280Ah LiFePO4 spec sheet, with the low voltage cutoff at 44.8V (5% SOC)

I was very happy that they were willing to customize one single unit order to 50Hz 240V (whereas other vendors sell 220V).

Here are the in progress shots Foshan SNAT sent me
View attachment 27554View attachment 27556View attachment 27557View attachment 27558View attachment 27559

I chose mine with no battery, they offer smaller size inverters, smaller MPPT and 2.2kWh and 4.4kWh battery options

View attachment 27560View attachment 27561

And here is mine with the cover removed

View attachment 27565View attachment 27568

Unfortunatly I could only fit 2 rows of 7 EVE280Ah cells inside the battery compartment, the case has handle cutouts and an external battery terminals cutout which prevent 8 adjacent cells.

Moving cells 8+9 and the BMS to the side, everything fits, and the rear door latches closed !

View attachment 27567

It's not mandatory to install a battery internally, and as there are internal battery cables and external battery terminals you can have 2 batteries as long as they are identical.

The inverter mode supports AC Grid priority, Energy saving mode and Battery priority mode.

In grid priority mode the battery charge rate can be set at 20/40/60/80/100%, with 1200W max.

Camille pointed out that in Grid priority mode the All in one acts as a UPS and as such if drawing a 5000W load, the input would need to be wired by an electrician to the mains power. Personally I use a standard 240w 10A socket, just for battery charging, and then switch to Battery Priority.

With the inverter at about 2100W output, the fan is near silent, about the noise level of your car fan set at "1". Inverter efficiency appears to be 90-92%.

I paid $665 without a battery.
66kg in a wooden crate.
48V 5kW low freq inverter charger
60A MPPT
Output 240V 50Hz AC

where can i buy this black bms?

Thanks!

 

[AussieSim]

where can i buy this black bms?

Thanks!

200A Smart BMS from LLT Power

Hi! Anyone used this BMS from LLT Power: https://www.lithiumbatterypcb.com/product/7s-to-20s-200a-smart-bluetooth-bms/ Model No: JBD-AP20S002 Looks like a good bargain, what your views?

diysolarforum.com

 

[AussieSim]

Here is the Alibaba link to this all-in-one, everything is customizable from for the output Voltage/Hz to the battery, PV current / PWM / MPPT.

Snadi 4.5kwh Lithium Battery Inbuilt 3kw 48v Solar Power System Home - Buy Solar Panel System,Home Solar Power System,Solar Power Sytem 3kw Product on Alibaba.com

Snadi 4.5kwh Lithium Battery Inbuilt 3kw 48v Solar Power System Home - Buy Solar Panel System,Home Solar Power System,Solar Power Sytem 3kw Product on Alibaba.com

m.alibaba.com

I've now assembled my 16s EVE 280Ah pack + BMS inside, I used some wooden boards on the sides, I taped the cells in alternating pairs and triplets, put a belt strap around to whole pack (for minor compression and) to allow me to pull the pack out, and kapton tape across the busbars+terminals. I also had to chop off the included positive lead lug as I am using a positive terminal MRBF fuse block.

I had to assemble row by row (cells 16 - 10) then (cells 9 - 3) then 1+2 and the BMS. Because of cramped vertical space I used a L-hex key to hold the terminal grub screws, and a spanner to tighten the nuts. **Both were generously covered in tape to prevent sparking/electrocution**

Edit : my top balance remains pretty tight after a few full cycles, I balanced in parallel to 3.63v, stopped the charge and let them rest, still in parallel, for several days before assembling the pack.

I have been able to achieve 96.4+ % of the total capacity within the limits of the Foshan Snadi having factory set HVD/LVD of 57.2v (3.575) / 44.8v (2.8).

Edit 2: I've discovered that the external battery (safety) switch lever only controls the internal battery bay leads. The All-in-one includes terminals for an external battery lugs. With the battery (safety) switch in the off position only the external battery is used, hence you can use a different capacity 48V external battery with the Snadi Inverter/charger/MPPT.

 

[toms]

Thanks for sharing your project - i’m keen to follow the long term performance.

 

[Gazoo]

I found several manufacturers on Alibaba and Camille from Foshan SNAT has been my sales rep. I was able to order a custom 5000W AC 48V inverter, with 60A MPTT charging as well as AC charging.

I have contacted Camille to get a quote for a 24 volt 3000 watt version. I am curious about something. Have you tried to use the unit disconnected from the grid? Any grounding issues? Thanks.

 

[AussieSim]

I have contacted Camille to get a quote for a 24 volt 3000 watt version. I am curious about something. Have you tried to use the unit disconnected from the grid? Any grounding issues? Thanks.

No grounding issues, I have only plugged in the AC input to test it out. It runs in Mode 1, 2 and 3 off battery, AC will not charge the battery in Mode 3, but PV solar works in all modes.

The Eco mode (2) says the inverter will kick in at 15% power, and checks for a load every 10 seconds or so, I haven't really left it in Eco as it PV charges with the unit off, I just turn it on to use.

I don't have an oscilloscope to test, I used the Snadi to AC power my Xindun inverter charger. At baseline the Xindun display said 240v 50Hz, but at 1150W the Xindun reported 230v input.

The High voltage and Low voltage settings were factory set and cannot be altered. I do like the Xindun "powerwall-like setting" when you can set a voltage threshold to switch Battery Mode (3) to Main Priority Mode (1).

It is a tight fit if you want to use 16 EVE280Ah cells, make sure you generously wrap your spanner/hex key in tape and wrap a tie down strap around the pack to help you slide it out.

Edit : you might want to ask Camille if the internal battery cable lugs can be larger, mine were only about M6.

 

[Gazoo]

Thanks. I am envious...lol. She can't ship it DDP to the USA due to the weight and it probably would have been out of my price range. I mentioned to her I know of someone from Australia who purchased from her and she remembered you.

She did suggest an AIO much like the MPP Solar but with huge differences...literally. It too contains a LF inverter with a toroid transformer. The 2000 watt version would cost me around $650 including shipping and includes the wifi module. Something like that would work for me and even though I can't do a full blown solar system, having the MPPT built in would let me experiment with it.

I am still hunting and it's great to chat with the Chinese. I like Camille. If she doesn't understand English she is using a very good translator. She does know her stuff for sure. And from looking at your review and their other products, I think the company is reputable. They do have their own factory and the photos are impressive, and in the event of a failure during warranty they send replacement parts.

I know there are those that will always say "beware" when buying products from the Chinese. One should only consider Tier 1 stuff. I understand where they are coming from, but in a way I disagree. If no one is willing to give these companies a chance then we will never know the good from the bad. From what I have seen so far of Snadi, and going by your review, they appear to be top notch. Thanks again.

 

[Gazoo]

Duplicate Deleted.

 

[Skid]

Thanks. I am envious...lol. She can't ship it DDP to the USA due to the weight and it probably would have been out of my price range. I mentioned to her I know of someone from Australia who purchased from her and she remembered you.

She did suggest an AIO much like the MPP Solar but with huge differences...literally. It too contains a LF inverter with a toroid transformer. The 2000 watt version would cost me around $650 including shipping and includes the wifi module. Something like that would work for me and even though I can't do a full blown solar system, having the MPPT built in would let me experiment with it.

I am still hunting and it's great to chat with the Chinese. I like Camille. If she doesn't understand English she is using a very good translator. She does know her stuff for sure. And from looking at your review and their other products, I think the company is reputable. They do have their own factory and the photos are impressive, and in the event of a failure during warranty they send replacement parts.

I know there are those that will always say "beware" when buying products from the Chinese. One should only consider Tier 1 stuff. I understand where they are coming from, but in a way I disagree. If no one is willing to give these companies a chance then we will never know the good from the bad. From what I have seen so far of Snadi, and going by your review, they appear to be top notch. Thanks again.

I checked the all-in-one option today, 3000w 48v. As an aside there is a 10% discount coupon until the end of the month. Not a lot but $35 is better than nothing. Since I'll never use the AC charger I'll ask if it can be assembled without if it isn't integrated too deeply.

 

[Maast]

I thought I would make a post about my new Foshan SNADI / SNAT all in one.

Looking at inverters, the options are high frequency and low frequency, and of the low freqency they tend to be either elongated or rectangular, with or without an solar charger.

Just out of curiosity, have you measured the idle loss? Always interesting to see how much power a inverter eats just sitting there without a load and the differences between HF and LF idle losses.

 

[AussieSim]

Just out of curiosity, have you measured the idle loss? Always interesting to see how much power a inverter eats just sitting there without a load and the differences between HF and LF idle losses.

About 45w in Mode 1 + 3.

Eco mode has a lower baseline and briefly spins up every 5 seconds.

These LF inverters can MPPT charge whilst off, cutting down idle battery draw overnight.