FREE SOLAR!! But there is always a catch...

[michale32086]

I have been interested in setting up a Solar Power system since we moved into our new home in NE Florida back in '04... Our house has a PERFECT East/West facing and my roof literally gets sun from sunrise to sunset, sans cloudy days of course......

I see all the ads for FREE SOLAR but I have a modular home so I am told I don't qualify for free install and equipment... I would like to set up my own with a DIY step by step setup that allows me to start small. A panel and metering/battery setup and then build it up as my knowledge (and funds) allow...

My background is LEO/Military but I do dabble with computers and electronics...

I just don't want to spend a lot of time and effort and $$$ on a setup and then down the road, find out that it was all a waste....

Does anyone know of any offers or such that will allow someone to start small and then build up as you go and take advantage of what is free???

Any hints, tips or advice would be most appreciated..

 

[Cyanlite]

Most of those ads are for systems that extend you a loan for X amount of years that also pays for itself by offsetting your power bill by nearly that same monthly amount. Or some form of a lease. Caveat Emptor.

Going DIY is almost assuredly less in costs, however you could run into permitting issues, production issues, and the consequences of you getting something wrong could be catastrophic.

But it’s hella fun and that’s why we’re here.

 

[Bluedog225]

Welcome.

My experience is that this type of help from a solar installer doesn’t exist. You can absolutely diy. Stick around and learn.

A big issue is incremental builds is how to buy an inverter that can scale with your needs. That is, you may need to go big up front before you need it. There are “stackable” systems. Start small and add to it.

The grid tie stuff is a deal. Makes all this much more complex. As does putting it on your house.

Actually UL listed is also something to learn about. And as it relates to your insurance.

If you want to learn solar, just read here for a month. Then buy and install 1000 watts of panels in your backyard (ground mount) and a little solar shed with a charge controller and some small LiFePO4 battereis and a small inverter. Learn how this stuff works. Then you can decide what you need/want. Will save you thousands of $ over the long run.

 

[SolarHead]

I think the ad's for free solar might be misleading. Unless theres something out there that I'm unaware of perhaps. I think they mean "free" by replacing your power bill with a payment for solar equipment. Instead of paying power bill you're paying the loan payments. With interest on the loan, and many times I'm seeing these solar systems are not well thought out, nor do they cover or do what the owner hopes, you end up with a loan payment for 20 years. You sell the home and move, you're still on the hook to make the loan payments. Buyer beware. I've seen a lot of systems installed that are very expensive, strap the owner with a loan payment, and doesn't perform exactly as they had hoped or were lead to believe.

Your best best if you're on a budget would probably be to buy a new inverter like a Fronius or SMA, connect it to your existing breaker box, buy a few solar panels used or new, and go for about 4,000 watts of panels, to maybe 6,000 watts. Do the math on what your power bill is, and what your cost is of equipment and figure how long it'll take to get your money back. Ideally you'd want 3 to 5 maybe 7 years at the most. If you can sell back to the grid (check with your power company) and that looks good and no/low fees, that may help lower your ROI (return on investment). At that point you get your investment back, you have "free" solar.

You can install it all yourself if you take the time to watch YouTube, read, ask on this forum, and read the install manuals which you can download for free before you buy anything. I highly recommend involving a licensed electrician from the start, or in the least - for final inspection. Money well spent.

You'll need batteries if you want to have power when the sun isnt shining, but batteries are the single most expensive part of a solar system. If you have a generator or are okay in the dark when the power grid goes out and the sun isnt shining, then you dont need batteries.

First thing you need to do is look at your power bill and see how much power you are using per month, per year. You also need to think deep and make decisions on which loads you want to power, do you need to cover your entire electrical needs? or are you okay not covering things like the heat pump and/or water heater? Dont go cheap on the inverter you buy because thats going to provide you with most options or more restrictions for now, and future expansion. I think what I suggest is trying to cover 70% of your power bill with solar. So if you're using say 50kwh daily, try to generate about 35kwh a day. How many solar hours do you get daily (find out online)? If its say 5 hours, then 7kw solar panel array should produce that.

Do not do roof mount if at all possible. Multiple reasons why not to go with roof mount. If you have land or the space to do ground mount, I highly recommend ground mount.

If you're just trying to save money on your power bill, and your power is like .11/cents per kwh, I'd say keep paying the power bill and dont worry with solar. If you want back-up power, and/or your grid power is costly and/or unreliable , then consider solar, but approach it as mentioned above.

Thats about the best advice I can provide to someone coming into the idea of going solar. If you don't enjoy the process of learning, I'd suggest don't go solar but it's quite a bit to learn but once you get the basics, and understand home wiring, you're well on your way.

 

[SolarHead]

I'd suggest a Sol-Ark 12K, and 8kw of solar panels and 2 rack-mount SOK batteries, along with a critical loads panel (just a new breaker box, I suggest use same brand of breaker box as your existing breaker box so you can move breakers over without having to buy new breakers for your critical loads panel). The Sol-Ark is a "swiss army knife" of an inverter and can do about any configuration you want today, or tomorrow, in regards to grid-tied, off-grid, batteries , no batteries, and can be stacked if you want/need more power than the 12K can manage. Do a ground mount , buy all of it from your local electrical supply house and install it yourself little by little. Take time , learn about each piece, and enjoy the journey.

 

[SolarHead]

Keep in mind you are asking a bunch of people on a DIY forum so our answers are going to be leaning towards DIY.

If you don't want to DIY, try the PaySomeoneElseToDoItandGetPossiblyGetRippedOff.com forum

 

[BoloMKXXVIII]

There are also kits you can purchase that provide (mostly) all the parts you need. You just supply the labor. More expensive than DIY, but if you don't know what you are doing and can't/won't spend the time to learn, it is an option.

 

[SolarHead]

There are also kits you can purchase that provide (mostly) all the parts you need. You just supply the labor.

I actually looked at the kits to see what the person had selected in regards to inverter, and size of panel array, and so on. This helped me start learning more about sizing my system. I kind of reverse-engineered the kits this way. It started becoming apparent what was paired together in regards to how much solar power, and how much inverter, and how much battery. Its a good rough estimate but I did find perusing the kits helpful in that regard. I would not say "no" to a kit, as they do have their value, but I think picking all the components yourself is more enjoyable and educational. I watched Gain Solar on YouTube show how to wire a critical loads panel. He said he recommended all home owners do the wiring themselves so they know what they got and how to work on it, and he's an installer! That rung a bell with me when I watched it. He was encouraging the owner to get involved so they would have a better experience and know what they got, and what they don't got. He goes into which Wago connector he recommends, wire gauges, I learned a lot from this guys videos.

Right around the 3 minute mark is when he mentions the DIY aspect.

 

[LittleLebowski]

#TANSTAAFL

 

[Samsonite801]

I have been interested in setting up a Solar Power system since we moved into our new home in NE Florida back in '04... Our house has a PERFECT East/West facing and my roof literally gets sun from sunrise to sunset, sans cloudy days of course......

I see all the ads for FREE SOLAR but I have a modular home so I am told I don't qualify for free install and equipment... I would like to set up my own with a DIY step by step setup that allows me to start small. A panel and metering/battery setup and then build it up as my knowledge (and funds) allow...

My background is LEO/Military but I do dabble with computers and electronics...

I just don't want to spend a lot of time and effort and $$$ on a setup and then down the road, find out that it was all a waste....

Does anyone know of any offers or such that will allow someone to start small and then build up as you go and take advantage of what is free???

Any hints, tips or advice would be most appreciated..

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is!

Besides why would I ever want to cheat myself out of an excellent DIY learning adventure...

 

[Bluedog225]

kit is not much of a leaning experience.

calculating equipment needs and wire sizes is needed for this op

 

[SolarHead]

kit is not much of a leaning experience.

correct, I gleamed very little from looking at the kits. I think I spent 15 to 20 minutes looking over solar kits, and noticed the solar panel array size in kw, the inverter , and battery bank size if it had batteries. All it did was give me a bit of confidence that my system sizing calcs were in line with what other companies were putting together and calling them "kits".

 

[Bvillebob]

I recently watched a video on Youtube, an "investigative report" by some news channel in the South, where they did hidden camera filming of salespeople offering "free solar" to people, and then calling them on their lies. It looked like a pretty sleazy operation and there were a lot of ticked off people who hadn't gotten anything like what they were promised, with no recourse.

Be very, very careful with this kind of operation. Learn all you can or you're likely to get taken.

I've built a fairly large system of the last couple of years, 20kw of panels, 60 kWh of lithium batteries, 3 charge controllers. I've done it all with the best gear I could find and afford, Midnite charge controllers, Samlex inverters and good quality cells from Docan to build my batteries. All in, I've spent about $15,000 doing all the work myself and saving every penny I could. It' working great and I'm really happy with all the gear, but it gives you a realistic idea of the low end of what a larger system will cost you.

 

[Samsonite801]

I recently watched a video on Youtube, an "investigative report" by some news channel in the South, where they did hidden camera filming of salespeople offering "free solar" to people, and then calling them on their lies. It looked like a pretty sleazy operation and there were a lot of ticked off people who hadn't gotten anything like what they were promised, with no recourse.

Be very, very careful with this kind of operation. Learn all you can or you're likely to get taken.

I've built a fairly large system of the last couple of years, 20kw of panels, 60 kWh of lithium batteries, 3 charge controllers. I've done it all with the best gear I could find and afford, Midnite charge controllers, Samlex inverters and good quality cells from Docan to build my batteries. All in, I've spent about $15,000 doing all the work myself and saving every penny I could. It' working great and I'm really happy with all the gear, but it gives you a realistic idea of the low end of what a larger system will cost you.

Plus when you build it yourself, you know how it works and don't have to call somebody when/if you ever have a problem hehe...

 

[timselectric]

Free solar advertising is usually a grid tied scam.
It usually benefits the installing company more than the customer.
Don't get burned.
Stick around here and absorb all of the information provided.
You can build your own system for a lot less money.
And enjoy the knowledge of knowing what you have.

 

[ernesto1]

I can only tell you what I decided to do after doing pretty much the same search you, and probably most people here did. Watched most of Will's vids, bought a pallet of 20 used 240w panels, wire & connectors, EG4 inverter and 100A battery. I decided to install a separate service & wire for essentials as Duke power is unreliable, & power my EV. I didn't want to go through the grid hookup hassle, my system is easily expandable, when I decide not to install any more panels, I can sell them, I have back-up power for a fraction of a Generac system & it has been fun to learn about this.
I realize this approach is not for everybody, I figure it is half way between the battery builder/inverter-controller guys and the 'here is a check, put it in' guys but you have to decide tour comfort level. Good luck whatever you decide.

 

[Hedges]

The government (public utility commission setting of rate tariffs to benefit utility company) can pull the rug out from under you, changing terms of contract so benefit from PV goes way.

That can reduce benefit of our DIY systems so our bill savings goes negative. A "free" solar deal which was supposed to be loan payments less than value of power could be come loan payments higher than the value.

California is in the middle of trying that, had it all approved and ready to go, but Newsom said "needs work", and we don't know the final form.
Florida tried the same and DeSantis vetoed it.

Caveat Voter.


Net metering, if allowed with good terms, is a good deal. Accounting for your utility bill is cheaper and more efficient than batteries.
If your consumption is while the sun shines, Zero Export can be worthwhile. Install about enough PV to supply your A/C, and sensors monitor utility grid connection, reduce PV production so no power exported.

If you DIY the labor, you may be able to assemble grid-tie or zero-export system for about $1/watt. That will deliver power for $0.025/kWh over 20 years ($0.05/kWh over 10 years, $0.10/kWh over 5 years.) Just amortize cost over lifespan and effective hours per day (5 hours or more, based on "insolation" estimates for your zip code.)

 

[Cyanlite]

The government (public utility commission setting of rate tariffs to benefit utility company) can pull the rug out from under you, changing terms of contract so benefit from PV goes way.

That can reduce benefit of our DIY systems so our bill savings goes negative. A "free" solar deal which was supposed to be loan payments less than value of power could be come loan payments higher than the value.

California is in the middle of trying that, had it all approved and ready to go, but Newsom said "needs work", and we don't know the final form.
Florida tried the same and DeSantis vetoed it.

Caveat Voter.


Net metering, if allowed with good terms, is a good deal. Accounting for your utility bill is cheaper and more efficient than batteries.
If your consumption is while the sun shines, Zero Export can be worthwhile. Install about enough PV to supply your A/C, and sensors monitor utility grid connection, reduce PV production so no power exported.

If you DIY the labor, you may be able to assemble grid-tie or zero-export system for about $1/watt. That will deliver power for $0.025/kWh over 20 years ($0.05/kWh over 10 years, $0.10/kWh over 5 years.) Just amortize cost over lifespan and effective hours per day (5 hours or more, based on "insolation" estimates for your zip code.)

Nail hit right on the head by the hammer. It's the biggest risk with solar. Utilities and governments are both seeing that the average homeowner can completely bypass their monopoly with solar, so they need to find more ways to regulate it and discourage its use. Rules are actively being changed by governments so watch out.

Georgia limits residential grid-tied installations to only 5000 for the entire state! But salespeople there aren't saying that, and are still selling solar installations that don't even come close to zeroing out their power bill.

Then you have Alabama that discourages solar by charging a "grid-tie connection fee" of $5.40/mo per kW of solar. (E.g., they charge YOU an extra $54 a month to grid-tie a 10kW solar array even if you don't sell anything back to the grid). I believe folks there are suing the power company there in federal court over it.

 

[sergea]

there is no free solar energy.

 

[SolarHead]

nothing is free