From Growatt to Victron Energy

[Repro]

In March this year (2021), I installed a small system with a Growatt 24 SPF3000TL and encountered power fluctuation issues that I could not resolve. See this link:

Growatt 24V SPF 3000TL LVM off-grid

I'm curious if the idle draw of the inverter whatever that may be(50 watts?) is always cumulative with any additional AC loads added to the inverter. Well, you'd also have to disconnect or measure when there are no charging sources available...

diysolarforum.com

I ran into all kinds of issues that included safety inspections and permits as well. So I scrubbed my installation, returned the Growatt and did a LOT of research. I ended up purchasing a system based on a lot of Victron Energy components:

VE Quattro 48/5000 inverter/charger
VE 150/70 Blue Solar charge controller
VE Lynx distribution system
VE Cerbo GX
VE Smart Shunt
Two 48V/100Ah Signature Solar EG4 LifePower4 batteries
I also still have 4 Ampere Time Plus 12V/200Ah batteries that are not in use at the moment

Due to COVID, just getting the appropriate permits for the electrical installation and the building permit for the solar panels took a couple of months. The city I live in has never had a solar installation like mine, and they did not know how to handle it. I did a panel ground mount with an off-grid solar installation type. A little unusual for a city home. My solar set up is so. I have a completely off grid system that cannot and does not feed into the grid. It is grid connected in the case solar cannot produce enough to cover my needs. Only then will it power AC and the batteries at the same time.

I wanted my VE system to work just like a Growatt. I must admit, the Growatt is MUCH MUCH easier to setup and configure. But I had issues as I mentioned above. When I replaced the Growatt with my old Giandel 2200W inverter, I suddenly had stable power. I was then convinced that the issue was the Growatt. The VE Quattro is extremely stable delivering a clean and constant 120V power without dips/fluctuations. I power two refrigerators, two sump pumps, a front loader wash machine, two outlets in my kitchen and one outlet in my garage. I have purposely started all at once through the subpanel to see how it handled the load. No problem at all.

I am proud to report that my basic system has been installed safely and passed inspection. the installation is not complete to my wishes, but now that I have passed inspection, I will make the additions and clean up some of the wiring. The Quattro is now set up to use solar to charge the batteries and provide AC power as the priority. No power is being drawn from the grid. After a solid 8 days of use, proof of concept has been achieved. In that time, it has produced 37 kWh from my small 1920W panel array. That is in Pennsylvania with short days in November. I am very happy with the installation. Now I can play with it and get it tweaked as time goes on.

You will see in the pictures of the installation, that after the inspection I added the Cerbo GX and and need to re-run my battery cables. This was an extremely tight space for all of the components. But they are in a climatized room and protected. I will be adding an automated power transfer switch for my furnace blower in the coming weeks. I will keep posting as I finish the installation.

My tips to you are: Please check with your local officials/government for permits and possible inspections that need to be performed. Had I done this, I would have saved a TON of time, money and work. My neighbor reported me to the Code enforcement office concerning my panels in the yard. And so the fun began.

 

[BMcL]

Why did you choose to go grid-tied ? Building an off-grid backup system requires no permits.
That's what I'm doing and you can move your high-power appliances like central ac
to off-grid and greatly lower your power bill (if that's your goal).

 

[Repro]

My system cannot and will not feed into the grid. My system will only draw from the grid when solar cannot provide enough power. I wanted it that way. That is why I initally purchased the Growatt. It did that with ease. Also, my local codes state that any installation, alteration of electrical system in my dwelling is subject to an inspection. This is for safety reasons, and that is why codes and code enforcement exist. This constituted an electrical system, so I had no choice. At first I just installed my Growatt thinking an off grid system is not subject to any codes. I got burnt. Thank God I did not have to pay any fines, however I had to get it all up to code and get the appropriate permits. I was also lucky that the inspector did not make me get a bi-directional meter from the power company. That is a whole new can of worms.

 

[BMcL]

If you strictly interpret the code the way you are saying, if I changed an electrical plug
from two to three prongs I'd have to notify authorities.
Nobody does that in reality. Are you in Australia ?

 

[Repro]

I didn’t interpret. I was forced. Do you think I voluntarily went and asked to be inspected and paid for permits??? Wow.

 

[Brett V]

I’m in the peoples republic of Pennsylvania too but out in the country so I don’t have to deal with busybody neighbors. Since my grid tie system was professionally installed, they did all the paperwork and permit work for me. I’ve installed a 6k growatt which is serving as a whole house ups for now, totally separate from the grid tied system. I like your home brew ground mount and plan to put in something similar next summer. Nice job!

 

[ChrisG]

@Repro I am in a similar situation with Growatt and have halted the installation. Out of curiosity, do you have the certificate for the VE Quattro 48/5000 UL Listing? I also have a need to do 240v for a well pump that is about 9000w surge.

 

[Repro]

No, I do not have the certification. My Quattro is not the UL listed version.

 

[ChrisG]

No, I do not have the certification. My Quattro is not the UL listed version.

@Repro interesting! The inspectors had no issue with non-UL listed device?

 

[Repro]

UL listing is only needed for a system that is "Grid Tied" with net metering. My system can only draw power from the grid. It cannot feed into the grid (no net metering). It is not considered "Grid Tied", and therefore the UL listing is not needed. That is how we were able to get around that. The inspector actually let me in on that one.

 

[ChrisG]

UL listing is only needed for a system that is "Grid Tied" with net metering. My system can only draw power from the grid. It cannot feed into the grid (no net metering). It is not considered "Grid Tied", and therefore the UL listing is not needed. That is how we were able to get around that. The inspector actually let me in on that one.

@Repro Thank you. Lots of different information out there. Makes complete sense to me and have been arguing the same as the net metering in my area yields no financial benefit for a grid tied system.

 

[Repro]

I agree with you on that point. I feel I have more benefit from an off grid system. No more power outages to worry about, savings on power costs, self reliance and it also helps the environment. Grid tied is expensive to install, lots of paperwork and bureaucracy involved, I cannot use the power in an outage, price of selling power into the grid is ridiculously low………….

I am happy with my decision to go off grid.

 

[Repro]

I’m in the peoples republic of Pennsylvania too but out in the country so I don’t have to deal with busybody neighbors. Since my grid tie system was professionally installed, they did all the paperwork and permit work for me. I’ve installed a 6k growatt which is serving as a whole house ups for now, totally separate from the grid tied system. I like your home brew ground mount and plan to put in something similar next summer. Nice job!

Brett V, may I ask how big your panel array is and what you produce on a sunny day this time of year if you know? It looks like your roof has quite a few panels. Thanks!

 

[Brett V]

The system has 29 LG 315 watt panels using Solar Edge optimizers. Production has been down this year due to smoke from the fires out west and an abundance of cloudy days but normally varies between 35 and 50 kWh per day. In the 5 years the system has been on line, I’ve usually been very close to breaking even on production vs usage at the end of the year. I heat with wood and cool with a mini split heat pump. My hot water is produced with a heat pump hybrid water heater. Attached is my monthly production totals so far this year.

 

[Brett V]

And a better view of the drone photo in my signature

 

[Repro]

And a better view of the drone photo in my signature View attachment 71586

Wow, super impressive! That would be a dream system for me. I see already in March you were really cranking out the power.

 

[cinergi]

Nice!

How are you getting the Quattros to not draw from grid unless needed? The best I've been able to do is use the Conditional AC connect and have it connect to the grid & start charging when the batteries go below a certain SoC and then disconnect when the batteries reach a certain voltage. If I leave the Quattro's connected, they'll end up providing the AC power and not the solar.

 

[Brett V]

Wow, super impressive! That would be a dream system for me. I see already in March you were really cranking out the power.

I kept trying to figure out why my daily production was down on sunny days over the best part of the summer. I’m not too far from Harrisburg PA and the prevailing winds caused some sun in this area to be attenuated by smoke from the fires out west. We had more cloudy days than usual too… it was just a sucky year.

 

[Repro]

That is not stated so easily. There are lots of little tweaks to get it set up to perform like mine. First off, in the VE Config tool. the GRID selection must be "Other". Then go through the tabs, turn off "Power Assist", the "Virtual Switch cannot be selected, and then load the ESS Assistant.

In the ESS Assistant, select your type of batteries, next enter the capacity of your entire battery bank in Ah, Sustain Voltage is set to 50V, set the Cut-Off ot 50V at the top, leave the rest, skip the next step and select "no on the next step after that. Save and upload your settings.

The rest is set in the in the "Console" of the VRM Portal, and then Victron Connect App with the MK3 adapter. Grid Feedback needs to be turned off on both settings in the Console and "Self Consumption" needs to be selected as well. Just go through all of the possible settings to get it set to how you want yours to work. I have limits set on charge wattage and AC power. It is complicated, but it works. Just make sure you go through ALL settings and download every bit of documentation on "Self Consumption" and "ESS"

See the Pic below for the grid usage. It does show 0.01W for both Grid draw and feedback, Those will always show 0.01W.

 

[fafrd]

UL listing is only needed for a system that is "Grid Tied" with net metering. [/b{My system can only draw power from the grid. It cannot feed into the grid (no net metering). It is not considered "Grid Tied", and therefore the UL listing is not needed. That is how we were able to get around that. The inspector actually let me in on that one.

Strictly speaking, I don’t believe that is the code. Any equipment you connect to AC power in your home is supposed to be UL listed.

Certainly here in the People’s Republic of California, no solar power system, off grid or not, would be permitted with non-Listed equipment.

I suspect you got lucky with a lenient inspector / building department and suggest you have a look at the fine print of your fire insurance policy…